Breaking out of combine speed trap... Owens Runs 4.64...

HardHittingRoy31

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By Jim Corbett, USA TODAY
Anquan Boldin proved the exception to the NFL scout's rule: The Indianapolis scouting combine should only be considered one piece of the predraft evaluation puzzle.
But the Pro Bowl receiver's below-average 40-yard dash time at the 2003 combine — Boldin ran a 4.72; 4.6 seconds is considered a minimum speed for receiver prospects — proved such a disturbing result that some teams downgraded him on their draft boards. At least one club removed him from consideration as a receiver.
But the Cardinals did their homework and saw past Boldin's 40, remembering that Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens and Derrick Mason ran slow 40s only to mock the teams that downgraded them with their perennial all-pro play. Arizona drafted Boldin as a second-round steal on the premise that football is based on game speed, not timed speed.
Any talent evaluators who forget that tenet at Indianapolis this week might again have reason to kick themselves.
"The whole combine process is overrated," Boldin says. "By scouting standards, I guess my combine 40 wasn't what they were looking for. Bottom line, you just have to watch film on a player, see how he plays the game, the way that he gets after it every day. That's the one thing the combine can't test."
Boldin went on to catch a rookie-record 101 passes for 1,377 yards. He surpassed that performance with 102 catches for 1,402 yards in 2005. Last season, with running mate Larry Fitzgerald sidelined by a hamstring injury for three weeks, Boldin again surpassed 1,000 receiving yards. Boldin's tenacious, physical running style after the catch is regarded leaguewide among the best at his position.
Too bad the combine could not measure Boldin's willpower — a fact many teams will pay for in the coming seasons.
The combine has become something of a speed trap with the emergence of training programs that prepare players for the event — from how to run a faster 40 to how to take the Wonderlic test. A tenth of a second, plus or minus, in the 40 can mean millions.
Saints quarterback Drew Brees fell to the second round of the 2001 draft based on a poor combine. He overtrained to strengthen his weaknesses and failed to accentuate his most important strength — accuracy.
"I worried so much about how people were going to evaluate me from the standpoint of speed and agility, I overcompensated," Brees says. "I worked too hard on all that stuff and really didn't work as much on the throwing. So I ran a good 40 time and threw like junk.
"The thing that disappointed about that whole process is that everybody is trying to break you down and find something negative. I realized after the fact that when people were saying, 'Well, you're too short.' Just go watch the film and then come talk to me."
But like many other players, Brees learned the combine is all about measurable numbers.
"That's the part of the combine process that stinks," he says. "So much of it is heavily weighted on the tangible stuff. Tom Brady has a whole lot of intangibles."
But the tangibles will get players such as 6-5, 236-pound Georgia Tech receiver Calvin Johnson noticed.
"Running at the combine can be the difference of millions," Johnson says from the Orlando-based Tom Shaw Performance Enhancement camp. "Being the No. 1 pick would be nice, but I don't care if I go first. I just want to play and feel like I can help my team."
NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock describes Johnson as this draft's player with the fewest holes.
"He's got the ball skills of Larry Fitzgerald," Mayock says. "He catches the ball well and is able to use body control better than any big guy I've seen.
"I'm anxious to see what his speed is at the combine. I think he'll run 4.45. He blocks people. And he's got great character and work ethic. I don't think he gets out of the top five."
Quarterbacks are sure to intrigue the Raiders, who own the top pick and haven't settled on a starter. LSU's JaMarcus Russell has the arm owner Al Davis covets.
"JaMarcus Russell has more physical tools than any quarterback I've ever seen coming out," Mayock says. "He can make every throw. He's got a Nolan Ryan fastball. He's 6-6, 260 pounds and sneaky athletic. He has a pretty good feel for the game and is a pretty good decision-maker.
"The only question is his work ethic."
That's a big question considering the signing bonus Russell probably will command. Teams have invested $300 million in first-round signing bonuses over the last three years.
Quarterback Brady Quinn could be this year's Matt Leinart because he's considered the most NFL-ready quarterback in this class after being groomed by former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis at Notre Dame.
"Brady Quinn has a tremendous skill set," Mayock says. "He can make every throw. He comes out of a Charlie Weis offense, understands pass protections and where to throw the football. Plus, he has unquestioned work ethic.
"There's a quarterback dilemma building, and it starts with the Raiders."
There's another quarterback question beyond Russell vs. Quinn.
"Who's No. 3?" Mayock asks.
He mentions Michigan State's Drew Stanton, Stanford's Trent Edwards and Houston's Kevin Kolb.
"Some people would make an argument for (Ohio State's) Troy Smith," Mayock says. "An average of five, six quarterbacks are taken the first day. Whoever throws well at the combine will help determine that because each quarterback has an issue."
Safety is yet another position earning a higher premium. Oakland took Michael Huff seventh last year, and Buffalo took Donte Whitner eighth overall.
"There's an evolution going on at the safety position," Mayock says. "They're looking for guys who can play both strong and free.
"You need a guy who can cover the deep zone and who can get up and be physical in the box and tackle. Last year we had Huff and Whitner. I think there's going to be three first-round safeties: LaRon Landry from LSU, Brandon Meriweather from Miami and Michael Griffin from Texas."
But there are bound to be other impact players available, even if their combine numbers don't lead to first-round draft status.
Boldin and undrafted Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo, another combine oversight, worked out together at IMG's Bradenton, Fla., pre-combine training program in 2003. Four years later they were NFC Pro Bowl teammates hooking up for a 47-yard touchdown.
"I could tell back then he was going to be pretty good," Boldin says of Romo. "We worked out together every day down there. He came from a small school (Eastern Illinois). You just have to watch a guy play. You can't look too hard at where he comes from or his combine numbers."


In 1996, Calico put up better numbers at the combine. Calico ran a 4.34-second 40-yard dash, while Owens ran a 4.64 in 1996. Calico's vertical leap is 38 inches; ...
query.nytimes.com/gst/ fullpage.html
 

Rampage

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HardHittingRoy31;1959009 said:
By Jim Corbett, USA TODAY
"I could tell back then he was going to be pretty good," Boldin says of Romo. "We worked out together every day down there. He came from a small school (Eastern Illinois). You just have to watch a guy play. You can't look too hard at where he comes from or his combine numbers."


In 1996, Calico put up better numbers at the combine. Calico ran a 4.34-second 40-yard dash, while Owens ran a 4.64 in 1996. Calico's vertical leap is 38 inches; ...
query.nytimes.com/gst/ fullpage.html
:hammer:
 

Muhast

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he ran poor that day, he supposedly runs right at a low 4.3 range
 

BigWillie

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First off, who is "Calico"? Is it Tyrone Calico? If so, he was not drafted until '02.

Secondly, I have a hard time believing Owens' 40 time. I'm not into defending 40 times, as it is fairly useless, IMO. But I have read Owens' time being all over the place, but mainly in the sub-4.4 range which is not hard to believe with him. If you search around the internet, you will never (at least I haven't) find a verified source about his time at the combine.

Does not take away from the point of the author of the article, as I agree. But still, it is always nice to have your facts right.
 

Yakuza Rich

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The combine is good because for every great player that wasn't good in the combine or vice versa, there's a great college player who doesn't translate in the NFL and it shows up with a bad combine.

I doubt the combine really effected Owens' draft position because he was a small school receiver thought to be very raw.

I think the 40 is tricky because as Jerry Rice described his poor 40 times, he just couldn't get motivated to run the thing compared to try to outrun a defender.

Years later when Owens ran I believe a 100 meter dash against other NFL stars, he won handily as he was able to outrun his opponents instead of running against the stopwatch.




YAKUZA
 

speedkilz88

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Owens came from a small school and improved physically since he's been in the nfl including his speed.
 

sago1

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It's funny that both Boldin and Romo worked out together and then in 07 pro bowl Romo hit him for a TD. In 08 pro bowl Romo hit Boldin's Card teamate Fitz for another TD. Some of the WRs who will get drafted this year will have 40 yard speeds in excess of 4.5 but the so called experts will down grade some of them just for that. With a little luck, maybe we get to steal a good young WR in the draft.
 

ctrous25

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speedkilz88;1959182 said:
Owens came from a small school and improved physically since he's been in the nfl including his speed.

Excactly.. He looks pretty fast too me
 

Yakuza Rich

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ctrous25;1959333 said:
Excactly.. He looks pretty fast too me

He is. Back when he was with the Niners they ran I believe a 100 meter dash (the true measure for flat out speed) and he beat everybody and ran a time that probably equates to a 4.3 forty time.

You also have to remember that this was over 10 years ago and football players today know how to run 40 times better.




YAKUZA
 

Nors

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Yes, a small fraction of slow players aever become NFL Studs.

I want to see a study and report on what all else slow players amounted to. This story loves the few but does not talk to the failures.....
 
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The NFL combine is the most overrated tool to evaluate talent I've ever seen! Soooo many guys were dropped into the lowers round because of those stupid drills, I HATE workout warriors... Give me the Romo's, Brady's of the world.
 

TheCount

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Another argument for why we should grab James Hardy, regardless of what people say about his speed or his 40 time. You watch the kid play, and he's just a man among boys out there.

Nors;1959363 said:
Yes, a small fraction of slow players aever become NFL Studs.

I want to see a study and report on what all else slow players amounted to. This story loves the few but does not talk to the failures.....

You may be missing the point. The percentage of those that go on to be NFL studs period is pretty darn small.
 

joseephuss

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ThreeSportStar80;1959398 said:
The NFL combine is the most overrated tool to evaluate talent I've ever seen! Soooo many guys were dropped into the lowers round because of those stupid drills, I HATE workout warriors... Give me the Romo's, Brady's of the world.

I disagree. I don't think scouts and GMs put as much stock in the combine as made out to be. They look at it as just another tool to help evaluate the players. Same with pro days. It just gives them another chance to look at the players, talk to the players and get some measurables. I doubt any team uses the combine as the primary determination for drafting a player high or low. There may be some exceptions, but for the most part I think that is how it works.

I bet Boldin was a tough player to scout. I liked him coming out of Florida St., but I am still a little surprised at how well he has done. He was a guy that still had very little back ground as a wide receiver since FSU used him at WR and QB. FSU also is not known for producing polished skill position players. Those guys were so used to just dominating less athletic teams that they didn't develop skills that are needed to play offense in the pros at a high level.

I always love how every year there is an article citing Jerry Rice and his 40 time dropping him in the draft. He went 16th overall. That is still high and in the first round. It is not as if he dropped out of the first round or into the second day or went undrafted. He was another one that was tough to scout since he played at a small school.
 

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ThreeSportStar80;1959398 said:
The NFL combine is the most overrated tool to evaluate talent I've ever seen! Soooo many guys were dropped into the lowers round because of those stupid drills, I HATE workout warriors... Give me the Romo's, Brady's of the world.
You do know there is much more to the scouting combine than the bench press and 40 times, don't you?
 

CATCH17

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I couldn't believe so many teams missed the boat on Boldin.

From day 1 I knew he was going to be a stud.
 

Doomsday101

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This is one reason why players who are projected as top 10 picks will tend to be leery or outright will not run in the 40 or other physical testing because in the end they can't do anything to help themselves in the draft they can only hurt themselves. I would rather scouts judge me on the body of my overall work than to be swayed off a bad day at the combines.
 

joseephuss

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Doomsday101;1959606 said:
This is one reason why players who are projected as top 10 picks will tend to be leery or outright will not run in the 40 or other physical testing because in the end they can't do anything to help themselves in the draft they can only hurt themselves. I would rather scouts judge me on the body of my overall work than to be swayed off a bad day at the combines.

Many of those guys still end up running a 40 later at their pro days.
 
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