Broaddus Breakdown: Cornerbacks

[cowboyjoe]

Broaddus Breakdown: Cornerbacks
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys
July, 2, 2010 Jul 212:15AM CTEmail Print Comments By Bryan BroaddusTenth in a series breaking down the Cowboys by position (previous entries):

Roster locks: Terence Newman, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick

Good bets: None

On the bubble: Jamar Wall, Cletis Gordon, Bryan McCann

Long shots: None

[+] EnlargeLeon Halip/US Presswire
Mike Jenkins made the Pro Bowl as an alternate last year, and he has the potential to be a fixture at the annual gathering of the NFL's top players.This is a good group.

I absolutely love Mike Jenkins. This should be the year he gets voted into the Pro Bowl, not as an alternate. There’s not much he can’t do. He can play press. He can play off. He drives well on the ball. He’s physical. He plays the ball well in the air. He plays with instinct. And he’s a good enough tackler.

Terence Newman has really been up and down in recent years. He still can run, knows how to play tight man and has the ability to play the ball in the air. Tackling is not his strength. At his age, you have to worry about his durability.

Orlando Scandrick is a gritty, gutsy type of cover guy. He plays in the slot, which is the most difficult position to cover. He has to carry a man all over the field. He went through a rough stretch after his Week 2 start against the Giants but rallied to finish the season strong. He can play slot or outside and has been used at safety some, too. He’s fearless as a tackler and has good instincts to read routes. He can probably take Newman’s spot in the not-too-distant future.

Depth isn’t a significant concern, because safeties Alan Ball and Akwasi Owusu-Ansah can play corner. Ball would be the third corner if a member of the established trio gets injured.

Cletis Gordon has an edge over the other bubble guys because of his familiarity with the coaches and the system. Jamar Wall was a draft pick, but he struggled in minicamp. Practice squad is the likely destination for Wall and Bryan McCann.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Depth isn’t a significant concern, because safeties Alan Ball and Akwasi Owusu-Ansah can play corner. Ball would be the third corner if a member of the established trio gets injured.

The fact that Ball would be the third corner if a member of the established trio gets injured is precisely why depth IS a concern because then you have a potential hole at FS (if Mike Hamlin does not step up).

This is similar to the depth concerns at C, where Dallas has no true C behind Gurode. If Gurode goes down then Kosier fills in at C, only he has never played it and is now lerning how. And in that case, who plays LG?

In my estimation, the concern for depth (i.e. lack there of) lies more with the OL/C position than CB/FS, only because OL depth always seems to be consumate problem for Dallas, and because Dallas at least Has Mike Hamlin who can potentially fill in at S.

At least Mike Hamlin has a shot to win the starting FS job from Ball - who in that case would slot in nicely at the #4 CB. But on the OL, there is absolutely no backup linenan on this team who can say that they can challenge the starters at the C or G positions for the starting jobs. And at C there really is no true backup in place.

 

[cowboyjoe]

The fact that Ball would be the third corner if a member of the established trio gets injured is precisely why depth IS a concern because then you have a hole at FS.

But on the OL, there is absolutely no backup linenan on this team who can say that they can challenge the starters at the C or G positions for the starting jobs. And at C there really is no true backup in place.

Travis Bright at center buddy, then ansah at free safety by end of season.

 

[Alexander]

Depth isn’t a significant concern, because safeties Alan Ball and Akwasi Owusu-Ansah can play corner. Ball would be the third corner if a member of the established trio gets injured.

So this is basically saying we have zero faith that Gordon, Wall or McCann can be a serviceable 4th CB. If we have to shift our starting FS (who is admittedly still learning his new job) in case of emergency, I do not see why you wouldn't be somewhat concerned about that fourth CB on the roster. I just do not care for the plan. I would feel better if they simply were going to have Ansah compete for the spot with the other three rather than working more at safety. This plan just screams uncertainty to me.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Travis Bright at center buddy, then ansah at free safety by end of season.

Never said we don't have guys to slot in. But if we go there my confidence in winning a Super Bowl this year falls quickly from good to slim to none. The depth issues in the secondary (i.e. FS/#4CB) and OL (i.e. G/C) are that critical.

 

[Alexander]

The fact that Ball would be the third corner if a member of the established trio gets injured is precisely why depth IS a concern because then you have a potential hole at FS (if Mike Hamlin does not step up).

This is similar to the depth concerns at C, where Dallas has no true C behind Gurode. If Gurode goes down then Kosier fills in at C, only he has never played it and is now lerning how. And in that case, who plays LG?

Don't worry about it. Montrae Holland will come flying to the rescue.

We seem to have these flimsy contingency plans in crucial areas.

I would feel better if there was more confidence displayed by the staff. I would even feel better if there was something definite. Like say, we are making our bed here with Bright as the backup C. Or we are going to go with Ansah as the fourth CB. I just think we are counting on too many things and depending on odd contingencies.

I think weakening one area for the sake of another is a recipe for disaster. It is almost like we are daring fate to hit us with injuries in these areas because we really are not solid in terms of true depth. We are borrowing too much.

In my estimation, the concern for depth (i.e. lack there of) lies more with the OL/C position than CB/FS, only because OL depth always seems to be consumate problem for Dallas, and because Dallas at least Has Mike Hamlin who can potentially fill in at S.

I agree, Kosier is more iffy at center. I would much rather just have a player that we plan to go with rather than banking on a shell game if injuries strike, even if that player is inexperienced (like Bright).

At least Mike Hamlin has a shot to win the starting FS job from Ball - who in that case would slot in nicely at the #4 CB. But on the OL, there is absolutely no backup linenan on this team who can say that they can challenge the starters at the C or G positions for the starting jobs. And at C there really is no true backup in place.

I do not feel Hamlin has that chance. I might be wrong and we certainly have not seen anything to make things definite, but it is just a feeling. In all honesty, it would be in the team's best interest to have Hamlin beat Ball out and have him as the 4th CB. As for center, I want to see an awful lot of Bright in the preseason. Play Gurode a series and give him a shot. It makes you wonder if we are going to instead give Kosier more reps than normal because of the contingency plan.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

We seem to have these flimsy contingency plans in crucial areas.

I would feel better if there was more confidence displayed by the staff. I would even feel better if there was something definite. Like say, we are making our bed here with Bright as the backup C. Or we are going to go with Ansah as the fourth CB. I just think we are counting on too many things and depending on odd contingencies.

I think weakening one area for the sake of another is a recipe for disaster. It is almost like we are daring fate to hit us with injuries in these areas because we really are not solid in terms of true depth. We are borrowing too much.

What do you expect us to do? What do you think other NFL teams have at fourth corner and sixth or seventh offensive lineman?

And there's nothing wrong with Mike Hamlin coming in and playing snaps at safety. He's a second year guy, a fairly well-regarded guy who got kudos from the coaching staff last year as a rookie, and it's not detrimental at all to have him on the field instead of a rookie like Wall or McCann.

But really, a lot of people, and we all know who they are, think corners are overrated anyway. Now it's a big problem that our fourth one is Alan Ball?

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

I would feel better if there was more confidence displayed by the staff.

I think the lack of a push to sign someone like Antogwe, or another vet essentially is a sign of confidence from the coaching staff.

Regarding the move of Ball to CB if one of the top 3 get injured, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To me, that is just the team putting the best player available on the field.

In other words, the #2 safety would be better than the #4 corner, and Ball previously playing CB allows us the flexibility to make that move. I do agree with you that it is in our best interest for Hamlin to beat out Ball, just as like you I'd like to see plenty of Bright at center.

 

[Alexander]

I think the lack of a push to sign someone like Antogwe, or another vet essentially is a sign of confidence from the coaching staff.

Not signing Atogwe speaks more to the idea that they have confidence in Ball. It is not like we have been flirting with the idea of bringing in a fourth CB. We seem content evaluating the young players. That's fine. There is not a veteran CB out there that could help right now regardless. But again, I wish I were hearing more examples of confidence rather than not signing a player like Atogwe, who probably was never seriously looking to get out of St. Louis.

Regarding the move of Ball to CB if one of the top 3 get injured, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To me, that is just the team putting the best player available on the field.

It still weakens the unit overall. Is Ball that great of a player that he can just float back and forth? Is Hamlin good enough to take over at FS if he has to? Perhaps I am not sold that Hamlin is actually at Ball's level and is in a true competition.

In other words, the #2 safety would be better than the #4 corner, and Ball previously playing CB allows us the flexibility to make that move. I do agree with you that it is in our best interest for Hamlin to beat out Ball, just as like you I'd like to see plenty of Bright at center.

I'd rather just have a decent #4 CB and allow Ball to concentrate on his new position. Perhaps that is in the cards if we go after a veteran after the cuts. But as it stands right now, it seems like we have forged ahead with this plan.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

It still weakens the unit overall.

Well, yeah . . . that's to be expected.

Any time a player goes down to injury, the unit is weakened overall.

Is Ball that great of a player that he can just float back and forth?

I wouldn't define him as great, but he's proven to be solid when he's been called upon in the past. He isn't coming off an injury, nor is he slowed by age, so I don't see why there would be a lack of confidence in his ability now.

Is Hamlin good enough to take over at FS if he has to?

That is to be determined. But if we go into week 1 and Hamlin is the back up safety, then it's safe to say the coaching staff feels he can take over at FS if he has to.

Perhaps I am not sold that Hamlin is actually at Ball's level and is in a true competition.

Again, it's to be determined. Whether or not it's a true competition, I fail to see why there would be any unfair loyalty to Ball that would keep him a starter even if Hamlin outplays him.

I'd rather just have a decent #4 CB and allow Ball to concentrate on his new position.

Yes, it would be nice to have a very good #4 CB. But if that #4 CB was very good, he'd likely be a starter or at least nickle on another team. Otherwise, you have to rely on a young kid, which is precisely what we're doing.

 

[cowboyjoe]

So this is basically saying we have zero faith that Gordon, Wall or McCann can be a serviceable 4th CB. If we have to shift our starting FS (who is admittedly still learning his new job) in case of emergency, I do not see why you wouldn't be somewhat concerned about that fourth CB on the roster. I just do not care for the plan. I would feel better if they simply were going to have Ansah compete for the spot with the other three rather than working more at safety. This plan just screams uncertainty to me.

I believe i McCann, give him time, has superior speed, 4.33 in 40 or better, mccann is also an excellent kickoff/punt returner too, so he can help here and there, and be used some in slot covering wrs, till he learns. .

 

[Alexander]

What do you expect us to do? What do you think other NFL teams have at fourth corner and sixth or seventh offensive lineman?

Yes, some do. What I do not see happening are many teams saying their fourth CBs are their starting FS and their backup Cs are their starting LG, who also happens to never have played the position before.

Right now, throwing up your hands and saying nothing can be done is pretty accurate. There is not anything that can be done now. But after the final cuts, there will be talent there and less excuse to go into the season with two pivotal areas counting on relief from other starting positions.

And there's nothing wrong with Mike Hamlin coming in and playing snaps at safety. He's a second year guy, a fairly well-regarded guy who got kudos from the coaching staff last year as a rookie, and it's not detrimental at all to have him on the field instead of a rookie like Wall or McCann.

I did not say it would be detrimental. If Hamlin's skill level is close to Ball, I feel better. Right now, I cannot say that. Overall, as I said before, if Hamlin beats out Ball, it actually is a win overall.

But really, a lot of people, and we all know who they are, think corners are overrated anyway. Now it's a big problem that our fourth one is Alan Ball?

It is not the 4th position. It is the fact he would be the third if injuries happen, which for all practical purposes is a starter. And we are due for the annual Terence Newman groin strain in about a month or so.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

Yes, some do. What I do not see happening are many teams saying their fourth CBs are their starting FS and their backup Cs are their starting LG, who also happens to never have played the position before.

It happens all the time in the NFL where a lineman will go down, and a team will shift starters around and bring in back ups, starting a domino effect of several lineman being moved.

And while I agree it isn't as common in the secondary, it does happen. The Giants for example, plan on and have in the past used Aaron Ross (starting CB) at safety when injuries neccessitate.

 

[sonnyboy]

So this is basically saying we have zero faith that Gordon, Wall or McCann can be a serviceable 4th CB. If we have to shift our starting FS (who is admittedly still learning his new job) in case of emergency, I do not see why you wouldn't be somewhat concerned about that fourth CB on the roster. I just do not care for the plan. I would feel better if they simply were going to have Ansah compete for the spot with the other three rather than working more at safety. This plan just screams uncertainty to me.[/quote]


Uncertainty to you. Flexibility and versatility to me. I like where we are in the secondary.

We have three FSs. Two of whom, (Ball and AOA) can play CB. I also think AOA will ultimately prove to be a capable swing guy at both S positions.

One of our 3 CBs, Scandrick has and can play FS.

Overall, I can't see how any fan could reasonably want more than what we have in the secondary.

I'll pit our 3 CBs against any in the league. Are there 1, 3, perhaps 5 groups better? Maybe, most likely not.

As far as S goes. You can't have established, above average to pro-bowl level talent at all 22 starting positions as well as 4-8 keys substitution roles in the FA era.

More specifically, you can't have 30 established above average to great NFL players playing on their 2nd contract.
It's not fisacally possible in a hard salary cap world which is what we have been under and still have to plan for long term

I really like what Sensabuagh did in 2009. I view him as an above average player in this league. So we have to make do with some young, unproven talent to man the other safety spot and fill key reserve roles.

So be it. Go check out the other 31 teams and see what young unproven talent they're going to have to count on this year.

 

[Alexander]

It happens all the time in the NFL where a lineman will go down, and a team will shift starters around and bring in back ups, starting a domino effect of several lineman being moved.

This happens all the time with guards and tackles. They flip sides and move for injuries. Linemen often have experiences at both positions coming up from high school and college. That is commonplace.

But I do not see it happening all the time at center. If you can point out a similar disaster plan elsewhere for teams at center, I might be convinced. Especially if that player has never played the position before. It is one thing to count on your backup LG coming in at C. But it is rare to see it happen with a starter. So basically, the faith in Montrae Holland is that strong? I would be surprised.

And while I agree it isn't as common in the secondary, it does happen. The Giants for example, plan on and have in the past used Aaron Ross (starting CB) at safety when injuries neccessitate.

Center is a bit different from most positions on the field. There are all kinds of pitfalls. Bad snaps, not being able to make the shotgun snap, making the line calls, you name it. It is fairly crucial. I know Gurode is an ironman. Believe it or not, this is a case where a player like Proctor had some value. If an injury occurred, the entire line's chemistry did not have to be disrupted by turning over two positions.

 

[sonnyboy]

It happens all the time in the NFL where a lineman will go down, and a team will shift starters around and bring in back ups, starting a domino effect of several lineman being moved.

And while I agree it isn't as common in the secondary, it does happen. The Giants for example, plan on and have in the past used Aaron Ross (starting CB) at safety when injuries neccessitate.

I don't agree with the "we can't have a plan to move a starter in case of injury, because you weaken two positions" therory. That's BS.

So what if you weaken two positions. It's about feilding the best unit you can after the injury. If that means changing two starters, than that's what you do.

 

[Alexander]

So be it. Go check out the other 31 teams and see what young unproven talent they're going to have to count on this year.

I am not that naive to assume that all teams have three deep starters, and no, I am not uncomfortable with having versatile players.

Young talent has to come through on any team. I have not seen any type of confidence from the team to the point that they just grit their teeth and make that determination. Instead, we are looking to shuffle around starters. And not as a worse of the worst scenario. In these cases, it is plan A because the available young players have not proven themselves. If someone steps up, outstanding. I would love to hear that the team has the utmost confidence in Travis Bright, for example.

Until then, you would have to be whistling as you walk past the graveyard to not be at least a little concerned. And yes, it is a good concern to have.

 

[cowboyjoe]

I don't agree with the "we can't have a plan to move a starter in case of injury, because you weaken two positions" therory. That's BS.

So what if you weaken two positions. It's about feilding the best unit you can after the injury. If that means changing two starters, than that's what you do.

never a wise idea to weaken a position by moving 2 players, nfl history shows, just makes things worse.

Now, what you have to do, is have real good coaches, that can teach and groom the players.

This is where Holland, who needs to get off of his fat lazy rear end, and work at center, but my hope lays in travis bright at center, who is one of our strongest players.

Then at safety, you have ball, and mike hamlin, but waiting in the wings will be Ansah, who i think will take over at end of midseason or about the 12th game of the year..

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Believe it or not, this is a case where a player like Proctor had some value. If an injury occurred, the entire line's chemistry did not have to be disrupted by turning over two positions.

Wow. Seriously?

At worst, if Kosier backing up is as bad an idea as you think it is, Bright will back up at center just like Procter did. And we know he won't be a worse player.

And you said yourself that these are "disaster" plans. No team in the salary cap era has great players in those positions.

 

[Alexander]

never a wise idea to weaken a position by moving 2 players, nfl history shows, just makes things worse.

No unit on the field depends on chemistry more than the offensive line. I suppose people forgot what happened when Kosier went down. It was not just for the fact his replacements were poor, there were adjustments even than and that was simply at left guard.

If there is one unit on the field I would try to disrupt as little as possible it is the line, especially when it involves center. And particularly when the player has never ever played the position before. If Kosier had done it before, not a problem at all.