BTB: Could run stuffing Andrew Billings be a fit for Cowboys

[Typhus]

Billings has not done much in the pro's. For all his strength maybe it's technique holding him back?

That was my entire premise in this thread.
He is only 24, 6'1" and 330lbs, so his ceiling is high, especially if the price is right.
Billings will be targeted in FA, if not by the Cowboys, by other teams with eyes on potential
talent adds.
That's what you do in this league, you grab potential talent when you can when the price is right and cross your fingers that your coaching staff can right that ship... I find it rather amusing when fans pretend to know more than actual talent scouts.

 

[quickccc]

Woods is a very good 1T in a 4-front.

Imo. Woods is average. JAG
we wouldn't be talking about hopeful upgrades in the interior at 1 tech, if he was a very good player.
He doesn't change the dynamics of how teams have to block us against us, doesn't disrupt or alter the way they have to play us.
He may be more suited to be the backup that FA Chris Covington was hoped to be in the rotation.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

They had a red flag on him coming out in the draft just FYI. Don’t know for what reason.

 

[Future]

Imo. Woods is average. JAG
we wouldn't be talking about hopeful upgrades in the interior at 1 tech, if he was a very good player.
He doesn't change the dynamics of how teams have to block us against us, doesn't disrupt or alter the way they have to play us.
He may be more suited to be the backup that FA Chris Covington was hoped to be in the rotation.

This is very true about Billings and EVERY other 1T. That's why they're 1Ts

There is no such thing as a run stuffer who disrupts offenses.

 

[Future]

If you don't like Billings, fine, than at least give more of a reason than the fact that he played for the Bengals.
The entire coaching staff has been changed here in Dallas, so Im not understanding the distain?

I like Billings for what he is. I dislike the idea that he makes any difference for this or any other defense in the NFL.

He has a skillset and plays a position that is largely irrelevant.

 

[Future]

yes.
if not him...jordan phillips,bills.
another name to watch...mike daniels,packers...green bay connection to Big Mc.

Phillips would be a downgrade from Collins.
I don't mind a flier on Daniels, but he hasn't been good ffor like 3 years.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Phillips would be a downgrade from Collins.
I don't mind a flier on Daniels, but he hasn't been good ffor like 3 years.

Lol

 

[Typhus]

I like Billings for what he is. I dislike the idea that he makes any difference for this or any other defense in the NFL.

He has a skillset and plays a position that is largely irrelevant.

He plays a position that is irrelevant?
Not trying to be mean,, but maybe your just having an off day Future, it happens to all of us.

 

[Future]

He plays a position that is irrelevant?
Not trying to be mean,, but maybe your just having an off day Future, it happens to all of us.

1T/run stuffing DT is irrelevant. If you can't rush the passer, you are a liability on defense. Stopping the run is exclusively about scheme and team discipline - 1 player does not change a run game.

 

[kskboys]

This is very true about Billings and EVERY other 1T. That's why they're 1Ts

There is no such thing as a run stuffer who disrupts offenses.

Not true. You might want to adjust your thinking on the 1 tech position, it's not accurate.

DJ Reader
Eddie Goldman
Kenny Clark
Brandon Williams

Here's a quote on Eddie Goldman to help you understand what a good NT can bring to a D: "More than just a run plug. He caves in pockets on pass plays and opens ways for teammates."

 

[darthseinfeld]

Lol

I dont agree with Future, but Phillips scares me. 9 sacks at 320 is serious production. But he only has 1 year of production. I doubt he gets less than 10 AAV, and he is risk at that price.

 

[kskboys]

I dont agree with Future, but Phillips scares me. 9 sacks at 320 is serious production. But he only has 1 year of production. I doubt he gets less than 10 AAV, and he is risk at that price.

W/ Phillips, you'd absolutely have to have someone on the staff capable of keeping him motivated. Very tough to do.

I'd take Billings over him purely due to Billings having a much higher motor.

 

[Typhus]

1T/run stuffing DT is irrelevant. If you can't rush the passer, you are a liability on defense. Stopping the run is exclusively about scheme and team discipline - 1 player does not change a run game.

I see that you bought into the Marinellis scheme of failure,, so no other conversation is relevant it appears at the moment.
Have a nice day.

 

[kskboys]

1T/run stuffing DT is irrelevant. If you can't rush the passer, you are a liability on defense. Stopping the run is exclusively about scheme and team discipline - 1 player does not change a run game.

Ah, but there's a catch!!!! A force in the middle who collapses the pocket and keeps the middle strong makes everyone's job easier. Basically, the guys next to him only have to worry about defending to one side, which makes the D tougher as you move out.

 

[kskboys]

Both super bowl teams utilize prototypical NT's.

 

[kskboys]

I see that you bought into the Marinellis scheme of failure,, so no other conversation is relevant it appears at the moment.
Have a nice day.

It's a matter of seeing beyond the stats and understanding that what one player does always affects what everyone does, especially on D. What shocks me is that someone who coached/coaches in the NFL doesn't comprehend that.

 

[quickccc]

This is very true about Billings and EVERY other 1T. That's why they're 1Ts

There is no such thing as a run stuffer who disrupts offenses.

it is, I saw it with Snack Harrison in his prime, in the 4-3 scheme with the NY Giants.
I saw it with Haloti Ngata with the Ravens,
I saw it with Vikes Ted Williams, Dave Butz etc. etc. ,

if we get a hold of a " dominant " 1 tech. their ability to stuff the run on a high level changes how you run against them. if these fat guys can consistently get stalemate at the line and don't give way and occupy two blockers,
and occasionally bend and get penetration, they change how your run offense against them and how you have to run against them.

It's a reason why the exceptional 1 techs are drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds (linvall joseph) and get into the pro bowl based on what they do vs run.
They don't go 1st rounds because they just don't impact as interior pass rushers.
and you probably know why top notch 3-4 scheme Nose tackles get drafted in first round.

 

[Future]

I see that you bought into the Marinellis scheme of failure,, so no other conversation is relevant it appears at the moment.
Have a nice day.

Remember when they were top-10 against the run last year? Some failure.

 

[Future]

it is, I saw it with Snack Harrison in his prime, in the 4-3 scheme with the NY Giants.
I saw it with Haloti Ngata with the Ravens,
I saw it with Vikes Ted Williams, Dave Butz etc. etc. ,

if we get a hold of a " dominant " 1 tech. their ability to stuff the run on a high level changes how you run against them. if these fat guys can consistently get stalemate at the line and don't give way and occupy two blockers,
and occasionally bend and get penetration, they change how your run offense against them and how you have to run against them.

It's a reason why the exceptional 1 techs are drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds (linvall joseph) and get into the pro bowl based on what they do vs run.
They don't go 1st rounds because they just don't impact as interior pass rushers.
and you probably know why top notch 3-4 scheme Nose tackles get drafted in first round.

It's 2020. Those things are all irrelevant.

It doesn't matter if you can run or not.

 

[quickccc]

1T/run stuffing DT is irrelevant. If you can't rush the passer, you are a liability on defense. Stopping the run is exclusively about scheme and team discipline - 1 player does not change a run game.

you're right. it's not like ringside boxing as a solo human performance.

It takes a team effort to stop the run. it's also about how the ends handle the edges (see Quinn) and how the LBs handle their own duties vs run,(see LVE, Jaylon, Lee)
ditto with safety run support.

But when you get a ' dominant " run stuffer in the interior of the middle, that helps begins the dynamics in how teams have to run against you.
it limits what they can do to you vs the run.
Instead of being able to handle a top notch DT with a single blocker, if that OL unit has to scheme and double team two blockers to that side for just one DT
which that should allow other defenders to be freed up.

Those fattie guys wont move much, but teams wont be able to move them either. Since their role is so dependent upon what they can do with their size-muscle and bulk, they're more suited for
2 gap scheme vs one gap that depend much more on movement or " quick-twitch" as Marinelli likes to term it.

Vs 2 minute hurry offense, and the fact that pass rush just isn't their game, they wont be much help for you in that area, but against a premium ball carrying back or rushing team, they normally give
your best chance in helping subduing and minimizing that rush attack.