BTB: Sign-and-trade could be new trend

Chief

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Blogging the Boys
By Rafael Vela


Study this passage from a Seattle Times story on WR Brandon Marshall, who visited the team today:

As for whether Marshall will be staying in Seattle, expect this to be the first step in a what could be a longer process... Do not expect the sides to negotiate or sign an offer sheet because that would offer no room for negotiation in the compensation the Broncos would receive.

Now, look at this passage from the Baltimore Sun on the Ravens need to recoup draft picks:

The lower-than-expected tenders to three restricted free agents (Clayton, offensive tackle Jared Gaither and quarterback Troy Smith) seem like the Ravens are enticing teams to make them offers for these players.

Finally, a passage from the Miami Herald:

Another restricted free agent safety is Indy's Antoine Bethea. The guy was a Pro Bowl player, if you recall. The draft pick compensation on him is substantial -- a first round pick. But one would supposed the team could always work a trade with the Colts rather than give up the first-round selection. (Maybe a second-rounder?)

Three beat writers making the same general claim, which appear to confirm a point I raised yesterday. The tenders placed on players are not absolute unless the player signs an offer sheet which is not matched. The tenders appear to represent starting points in negotiations. Lots of people have wondered why the Seahawks would entertain signing Brandon Marshall to an offer sheet, when doing so would mean forfeiting the 6th overall pick in the draft. The linked passage suggests why -- Seattle has no intention of surrendering that pick for Marshall.


The Seahawks may have to give up their early 2nd rounder or the Broncos may insist on the second 1st-round pick the Seahawks possess -- it was originally Denver's pick and they may enjoy getting it back. If a deal comes off the compensation for Marshall will be negotiated. One can assume that Seattle would then get permission to negotiate a long-term deal with Marshall, He would then sign that contract with the Broncos, and he and that contract would then be dealt to the Seahawks for the agreed upon pick(s).

This scenario is likely to be played out more and more once the big name free agents settle, and many of them have already found new addresses, or re-signed with the old teams.

When you read the stories on Gerald Sensabaugh and wonder if a team would give up a 2nd for him, temper that enthusiasm. Plenty of teams may want him -- if the Cowboys are willing to deal him for a lower price.

The same is likely true for every young tendered RFA who looks to have a future. The biggest question will be what the "real" compensation should be?

The NFL has taken a major step towards NBA-dom. If this produces more trades, the uncapped system could produce more fan interest.
 

Cowboys22

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Sign and trades do not work in the NFL because of signing bonuses. The contract is worked out with the new team and then the trade is made. We saw this with RW11 and just this week with Boldin. There really is no reason for the team trading the player to sign him first. They simply give the other team permission to discuss contract terms and when all is worked out, both teams sign off on the trade.
 

dbair1967

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Cowboys22;3299463 said:
Sign and trades do not work in the NFL because of signing bonuses. The contract is worked out with the new team and then the trade is made. We saw this with RW11 and just this week with Boldin. There really is no reason for the team trading the player to sign him first. They simply give the other team permission to discuss contract terms and when all is worked out, both teams sign off on the trade.

They sign the 1yr tender offer and then once the trade is completed sign their long term deal.
 

Doomsday

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Cowboys22;3299463 said:
Sign and trades do not work in the NFL because of signing bonuses. The contract is worked out with the new team and then the trade is made. We saw this with RW11 and just this week with Boldin. There really is no reason for the team trading the player to sign him first. They simply give the other team permission to discuss contract terms and when all is worked out, both teams sign off on the trade.

There is no salary CAP so this is the perfect time to do a sign and trade.
 

AbeBeta

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Cowboys22;3299463 said:
Sign and trades do not work in the NFL because of signing bonuses. The contract is worked out with the new team and then the trade is made. We saw this with RW11 and just this week with Boldin. There really is no reason for the team trading the player to sign him first. They simply give the other team permission to discuss contract terms and when all is worked out, both teams sign off on the trade.

Dude, it is that way in every sport. Would you prefer it called "work out the parameters of a new deal and trade"?
 

AbeBeta

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Doomsday;3299494 said:
There is no salary CAP so this is the perfect time to do a sign and trade.

The league isn't going to approve what you are talking about b/c it amounts to buying draft picks. You sign a guy, pay his bonus, and then trade him? That 5-10 mill in bonus is actual money the original team is paying out. No one is going to spend that sort of scratch for a player they are trading, cap or no cap.
 

Cowboys22

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AbeBeta;3299509 said:
Dude, it is that way in every sport. Would you prefer it called "work out the parameters of a new deal and trade"?

Dude, the article specifically states "He would then sign that contract with the Broncos, and he and that contract would then be dealt to the Seahawks for the agreed upon pick(s). "

My point, in case you could not understand it, is that does not work due to signing bonuses. Denver is not going to sign Marshall, give him a big signing bonus, and then deal him to a new team. They will agree on compensation from the new team, give that team permission to work out a contract, and than trade him when the other team says its time. At no time in the process would Denver sign Marshall to a new deal. There is zero point to it so the article is wrong and I pointed that out. Things will be done as they always have so this article is much to do about nothing other than some teams may take less for their RFAs.
 

Cowboys22

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Doomsday;3299494 said:
There is no salary CAP so this is the perfect time to do a sign and trade.

How do you propose they take care of signing bonuses because the team that signs the deal will owe the bonus? Thats my point. Things will still be done as they always have. We just saw it with Boldin. Did Arizona sign him to a new deal and then trade him to Baltimore? No! Go figure!
 

Cowboys22

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dbair1967;3299468 said:
They sign the 1yr tender offer and then once the trade is completed sign their long term deal.

Thats not what the article says. He says they would sign the longterm deal with the original club and then the player and deal would transfer with the trade. I merely pointed out that will not work and things will continue as they always have.
 

Cowboys22

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AbeBeta;3299514 said:
The league isn't going to approve what you are talking about b/c it amounts to buying draft picks. You sign a guy, pay his bonus, and then trade him? That 5-10 mill in bonus is actual money the original team is paying out. No one is going to spend that sort of scratch for a player they are trading, cap or no cap.

Wow, someone gets it!
 

Bluefin

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dbair1967;3299468 said:
They sign the 1yr tender offer and then once the trade is completed sign their long term deal.

That is how the sign and trade would work in the NFL.

It'd be no different than trading for a player in the final year of a contract.

When we traded for Roy Williams, we had already come to terms for a multi-year extension before making the deal.

Teams will go after RFAs in the same fashion, IMO.
 

AbeBeta

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Cowboys22;3299524 said:
My point, in case you could not understand it, is that does not work due to signing bonuses.

Cowboys22;3299524 said:
Wow, someone gets it!

It is kind of adorable how you slam me in one post and praise me in the next
 

lkelly

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You can make a bonus payable 3 days after signing the deal. There are many creative ways to make sign and trade deals possible. It's even easier in the current no-cap environment.
 

AbeBeta

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lkelly;3299580 said:
You can make a bonus payable 3 days after signing the deal. There are many creative ways to make sign and trade deals possible. It's even easier in the current no-cap environment.

There is absolutely no point to that.

Player X wants to play for Team Y. His current team allows him to discuss a deal with Team Y. His present team doesn't need to sign him. It would waste a considerable amount of time for his present team.
 

Common Sense

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This isn't really sign and trade, it's just good old-fashioned restricted free agency, just like every single other year. There just may be more movement this season.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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This happens in the NFL already. Its not like no team has ever negotiated with another team for a lower draft pick. They trade for the rights to the player and then the player signs with the other team.
 

Doomsday

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AbeBeta;3299606 said:
There is absolutely no point to that.

Player X wants to play for Team Y. His current team allows him to discuss a deal with Team Y. His present team doesn't need to sign him. It would waste a considerable amount of time for his present team.

If they have a first round tender on a guy and can work out a deal with a team for a 2nd and 4th or something like that the original team is going to have to have the player sign a 1 year deal before they will be able to trade that player to you for a 2nd and 4th.
 

AbeBeta

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Doomsday;3299710 said:
If they have a first round tender on a guy and can work out a deal with a team for a 2nd and 4th or something like that the original team is going to have to have the player sign a 1 year deal before they will be able to trade that player to you for a 2nd and 4th.

Are you positive there? The tender secures the player's rights and is simply an offer, albeit one that the player cannot refuse if he wants to play (provided they don't work out a new deal). You are simply trading the rights to that player to the other team for the 2 and 4 in the scenario you note. Why would he have to sign his tender before that? Makes no sense.
 

Doomsday

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AbeBeta;3299977 said:
Are you positive there? The tender secures the player's rights and is simply an offer, albeit one that the player cannot refuse if he wants to play (provided they don't work out a new deal). You are simply trading the rights to that player to the other team for the 2 and 4 in the scenario you note. Why would he have to sign his tender before that? Makes no sense.

I am not 100% positive of that, it depends on how u interpret the rules. I read it as they may trade RFA after they sign the tendered contract or if another deal is reached with the RFA but I could be misinterpreting it.

6. Teams may not trade newly signed unrestricted free agents but may trade re-signed restricted free agents but will be taxed/penalized if applicable.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Doomsday;3300073 said:
I am not 100% positive of that, it depends on how u interpret the rules. I read it as they may trade RFA after they sign the tendered contract or if another deal is reached with the RFA but I could be misinterpreting it.

6. Teams may not trade newly signed unrestricted free agents but may trade re-signed restricted free agents but will be taxed/penalized if applicable.

You trade the rights to the player, not the player I am pretty sure.
 
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