BTB Vela: Wade Phillips Bears Down... showed 46 look

[YosemiteSam]

I agree. It is high risk/high reward style defense but I do think mixing it in is a good ideal to keep QB's guessing. Although I would not run it every down.

I think this was a prefect time to run such a defense. Campbell has never seen anything like it before nor has most of the Commanders and I'm pretty sure Zorn didn't prepare them for it "just in case".

 

[Idgit]

some pictures...

presnap

after movement
endzone view
after the snap
results

This stuff is why this board rocks, when this board rocks.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I was just poking Stash, is all. For fun.

Oh yeah, I knew that.

And good vid sequence, theebs. I can almost imagine a "WTH" thought bubble over the Skins O line in that third pic. hboy:

 

[Idgit]

Oh yeah, I knew that.

And good vid sequence, theebs. I can almost imagine a "WTH" thought bubble over the Skins O line in that third pic. hboy:

I thought I'd make it more obvious, since Stash was ignoring me and I want the attention.

My favorite part of that sig is the 'get Jason Garrett a gameplan tutor' part. It's great to see that the FO listens to us, because the gameplans are getting better. The timing is just right, too, b/c all of our best players are also coming back from injury.

Funny, sig, though. And good photoshopping.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think this was a prefect time to run such a defense. Campbell has never seen anything like it before nor has most of the Commanders and I'm pretty sure Zorn didn't prepare them for it "just in case".

I agree and I think we should continue to mix it in due to that very reason. I like giving the offense different looks and put as much on the QB's plate as I can.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

West coast to combat 46

A "no" on that one ABQjr...


The "West Coast" has been around since the early 70's, when Ken Anderson and the Cincy Bengals used an early version of it.

And actually I think a down-field passing game is more effective vs. the "46" than is the "West Coast" due to the bump & run coverage that is used on the "46" to disrupt timing routes.

 

[khiladi]

Why is it so hard to understand? This is the first game Newman's been healthy, and Jenkins and Scandrick were very green rookies. Just because Jenkins was supposedly better in man coverage coming out of college doesn't mean he was ready to cover NFL receivers right away. Maybe Newman spoiled us with the way he walked in and started from day one, but it takes time for rookie corners to adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL game.

I don't think there are any black helicopters here... It's just that Newman isn't limited anymore and the rooks are getting adjusted to the NFL.

Because he didn't play it last year, even when Newman and Henry were both healthy. He didn't play it in the beginning, with Newman only beginning to show problems in the Commanders game, not prior.But he was playing all these complicated zones, which were obviously confusing our secondary. As our opponents and even kevin Burneet admitted, we were letting people run right by. That is a mark of confusion. Is it more difficult ot play man or zone, where your responsibilities increase? We were constantly getting beat deep with the zone. Wade's history here proves otherwise. Like I said, even prior to Newman's known injury, itwas being reported that he wanted more man-to-man. And if it had naything to do with Anthony Henry being in, that too is BS, because Henry was starting this game and playing man.

 

[khiladi]

Man on man is great as long as you don't have guys biting on double moves like Pacman was. As for the rookies I do think they are getting to a point where the staff does feel more confident with them and with our top CB in the lineup I would expect Dallas to play more man to man

The numbers clearly don't support your assertion that Adam Jones was biting on double-moves like you claim he was. Anthony Henry, on the other hand... His butt should have been riding the pine since game 1... Further, he was in zone when he bit once on the double-move.

 

[Jake0]

Say what you want, but you had better be damn careful when running the 46. There is a BIG reason you don't see it anymore.

it's still used today.... I think the problem is lots of teams don't have the personnel to run it. I'd hope with all the supposed "talent" we have on defense that we'd have the personnel to run special packages like this. The ravens run it obviously, since they have great defensive personnel and their d coordinator is buddy ryan's son. The titans and eagles also run it from time to time. So it definitely still exists... it's just not gonna be a base package for anybody I don't think.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

http://img55.*************/img55/1025/46lookratliffjg0.jpg

I remember see this live... watching #60 standing there in that pose watching #90.... :laugh2:

 

[28 Joker]

You can definately shift into that Bear front or 46 right before the snap. There is one college team in the SEC that has done it very well for quite a few years. It can still work if you have the players. It was a great wrinkle, and we have not seen the last of it, imo. This league is still about players, and you run your stuff and dare people to stop you.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

hopefully next we do what the Giants did last year, line up 4 pass-rushers on the line

Hatcher, Spears, Ratliff, Canty

 

[JonJon]

I noticed that weird look they were giving, but didn't intially recognize it as a 46.

Here's a pic of the 46, for those who want to see what it looks like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:46_green.svg

Obviously, the reason it doesn't get used as much in today's game is because of the passing rules, which make it very difficult for the corners to play man coverage with minimal safety help. Back in the day, those corners could play TRUE bump and run defense, not the "shove once and you better let go or it's an automatic first down" defense.

I noticed the change during the game, but didn't know it was a 4-6. I hope we see more of this. It forces the offense to adjust. I would like to see a version where Spencer takes James' place with Ellis and Ware still in their same spots. BTW, has Spencer, Ellis, and Ware been on the field at the same time any this year?

I really wish Wade were our DC. This is a great example why. Noticeably absent is Brian Stewarts name. Makes you wonder..........

I have a feeling Wade will be "demoted" to DC during the offseason. I think he would accept it simply because jerry isn't going to give him a pay cut and no other team would hire him as a head coach anymore, that is, unless we win the SuperBowl. Garrett will probably be bumped up to HC with OC privileges.

 

[jobberone]

We probably would have gone to a more aggressive-style defense earlier -- some of players on defense wanted to play this way. But with TNewman and AJones out, we were down to two rookies and Henry starting, and Alan Ball as the backup. Clearly not the ideal situation for being aggressive at that point.

Getting Newman back is huge and obviously allows Wade more options. Although I'm no longer on the Pacman bandwagon, if he gets re-instated and continue where he left off, and as Wade begins to have more faith in our two rookies, I would assume this defense will become even more aggressive, lining up with different schemes.

Someone gets it.

I put this quickly together, i dont know if its a 46 but its odd that Bradie James comes to play on the line and they shift over to make room for him.


[youtube]EA75wPzMZoM[/youtube]

Thanks much.

A "no" on that one ABQjr...


The "West Coast" has been around since the early 70's, when Ken Anderson and the Cincy Bengals used an early version of it.

And actually I think a down-field passing game is more effective vs. the "46" than is the "West Coast" due to the bump & run coverage that is used on the "46" to disrupt timing routes.

Actually the West Coast is a derivative of the greatest genius of the NFL, Paul Brown. You can trace the current coaching lineage right back to Brown.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

HEY!!, Wheres Hostile? Hey Hos ole pal, do you ummm, remember that little talk we had in here last year about how I said the Philips 3-4 was closely related to the 46? ......

 

[BAT]

The most interesting thing for me to watch when they lined up in the 46 was the one on one matchups. Because the entire front (LBs and DL) are matched up one on one, even the RB has to block one guy by himself (usually it was James).

Rat was the most effective one on one, even better than Ware. Probably b/c the C is not as big or athletic as the LTs. Also, at the beginning of camp, Zach was identified as the JACK LB, but when the team lines up in the 46, it is James who lines up in the JACK position (pass rusher) while Zach (or Burnett) lines up in the traditional MIKE LB spot.