Bus Drivers and the Super Bowl

[Ashwynn]

Hey Ashwynn, I didn't say the guy was terrible. He was what the 15th rated passer? That's bus-driver material at this point. That's 8-8 stuff.

We need more than that.

Until they change the rules to allow the offense to have at least one more player than the defense I doubt you'll ever see the offensive line good enough to make Bledsoe a top-5 QB.

With a top tier Oline, Bledsoe can hang out in the top 5 - Thats better then 15th in my book.

 

[trueblue1687]

Hey Ashwynn, I didn't say the guy was terrible. He was what the 15th rated passer? That's bus-driver material at this point. That's 8-8 stuff.

We need more than that.

Until they change the rules to allow the offense to have at least one more player than the defense I doubt you'll ever see the offensive line good enough to make Bledsoe a top-5 QB.

You have to have a bus to drive to even be that. Bledsoe was a top 5 QB for the first half of the season until the L OT went down. Mobile? No. But with a little time, he will DISECT a secondary. Again I pose the question or challenge to pick a REALISTIC FA or rookie and we'll track them. I think that Hasselback w/ Seattle would have been here if he would have hit the FA market, but the point is moot because he didn't. Who else was available when we signed Bledsoe that has done better this year? Garcia? He missed most of the season. I think you've sold the guy a little short here. I, too, know he's not the greatest and not a long term answer, but he's a hell of a lot better than anything else that was available...unless we're just playing wish book here.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

With a top tier Oline, Bledsoe can hang out in the top 5 - Thats better then 15th in my book.

Can you prove that?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

With a top tier Oline, Bledsoe can hang out in the top 5 - Thats better then 15th in my book.

Top 5 huh?

OK who's he better than?

Manning (pick one)
Palmer
Green
Brady
Brees
Leftwich
Delhomme
McNabb

There isn't any guy on that list that Drew Bledsoe is better than at this point.

 

[burmafrd]

Up through the first half of this season Bledsoe had pro bowl numbers. As the line got worse so did he. This crap about teams game planning differently later in the season-crap. They game planned for Bledsoe the same as everyone has for years- the difference was in the second half our O line stank up the place. Had they kept pass blocking as well as they did the first half we would be division champs. We were 7-3 remember? Then pretty much every team tore our sad excuse of a O line apart and planted Bledsoe many times. Someone was talking about timing how long Bledsoe was getting to set up the last 6 games and it came out to an average of 1.4 SECONDs before he was hit/got pressure. NO QB is going to do very well with that little time.

 

[Juke99]

Top 5 huh?

OK who's he better than?

Manning (pick one)
Palmer
Green
Brady
Brees
Leftwich
Delhomme
McNabb

There isn't any guy on that list that Drew Bledsoe is better than at this point.

Roethlisberger
Plummer

 

[burmafrd]

Bledsoe is better then E manning- and if you disagree then you are totally blind.
Brees is a toss up.
Not like you have any credibility anyway.

 

[Juke99]

Up through the first half of this season Bledsoe had pro bowl numbers. As the line got worse so did he. This crap about teams game planning differently later in the season-crap. They game planned for Bledsoe the same as everyone has for years- the difference was in the second half our O line stank up the place. Had they kept pass blocking as well as they did the first half we would be division champs. We were 7-3 remember? Then pretty much every team tore our sad excuse of a O line apart and planted Bledsoe many times. Someone was talking about timing how long Bledsoe was getting to set up the last 6 games and it came out to an average of 1.4 SECONDs before he was hit/got pressure. NO QB is going to do very well with that little time.

One offensive lineman goes down and that's the excuse for our QB's sorry performance in the second half of the season.

If conditions have to be THAT perfect, guess what, we're in deep trouble....because ya see, in the NFL, guys actually get hurt...and the QB on occasion has to step it up in spite of that.

Again...the O Line WAS awful...no question about that.

But this business of "with a good O Line, he'll put up great numbers" what QB wouldnt?

 

[Juke99]

Bledsoe is better then E manning- and if you disagree then you are totally blind.
Brees is a toss up.
Not like you have any credibility anyway.

OH MY....you had the first half correct....Eli...doesn't cut it for me.

But Brees is a toss up???? The guy has thrown 51 TDs to 22 picks the last two years...while hitting 65% of his passes...he lost less fumbles in two years combined than Bledsoe did last year.

But here it comes...He's got better guys around him....

Third base!

Talk about lack of credibility.

 

[burmafrd]

The Skins certainly won all 3 of theirs with bus drivers. There have been some teams get very close to winning with bus drivers. It is doable. Better if you have a franchise, but just getting one of those is pretty tough. Favre won 1 SB. Elway 2- in 15 years for both of them- 3 SB's in 30 tries. Aikman got 3 in 12. Just having a franchise QB does not guarantee winning it all. Ask Marino, McNair. I submit that if you get the rest of the team- top D, O line, etc- you will have an easier time winning it all with a bus driver then getting a Franchise QB and then building the team around him. With the Cap and FA, you really need to get the rest of the team pretty close to built before getting the QB- because keeping the QB after his first contract is so expensive that building the rest is just about impossible.

 

[burmafrd]

Brees made some really dumb passes late in the season. Very much like Bledsoe.
And YES with a top O line any QB that is decent can do a good job. JUST LIKE ANY QB with OUR O LINE THIS YEAR WOULD NOT HAVE LOOKED GOOD. And YOU lack any credibility when you talk about one injury. RIvera, Pettiti, Tucker; Johnson and Allen to a degree did not play well. THE WHOLE LINE TOOK TURNS stinking it up.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Roethlisberger
Plummer

And Hasselbeck.

 

[Juke99]

Brees made some really dumb passes late in the season. Very much like Bledsoe.
And YES with a top O line any QB that is decent can do a good job. JUST LIKE ANY QB with OUR O LINE THIS YEAR WOULD NOT HAVE LOOKED GOOD. And YOU lack any credibility when you talk about one injury. RIvera, Pettiti, Tucker; Johnson and Allen to a degree did not play well. THE WHOLE LINE TOOK TURNS stinking it up.

Third base!

OK..so Mr GM..San Diego calls..."Hey we'd like to trade Drew Brees straight up for Bledsoe" and Burmafrd hangs up the phone.

And I lack credibilty?

:laugh2:

You wanna put up a poll right now?

"Who would you rather have as our QB, Drew Bledsoe OR Drew Brees?"

And I lack credibility...you're a funny guy.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The Skins certainly won all 3 of theirs with bus drivers. There have been some teams get very close to winning with bus drivers. It is doable. Better if you have a franchise, but just getting one of those is pretty tough. Favre won 1 SB. Elway 2- in 15 years for both of them- 3 SB's in 30 tries. Aikman got 3 in 12. Just having a franchise QB does not guarantee winning it all. Ask Marino, McNair. I submit that if you get the rest of the team- top D, O line, etc- you will have an easier time winning it all with a bus driver then getting a Franchise QB and then building the team around him. With the Cap and FA, you really need to get the rest of the team pretty close to built before getting the QB- because keeping the QB after his first contract is so expensive that building the rest is just about impossible.

Starr, Namath, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Aikman, Farve, Elway, Brady.

That's a lot of Super Bowls won with franchise QB's.

Go ahead prove your point that its easier to win a SB with a "bus driver" like Bledsoe.

 

[Juke99]

Starr, Namath, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Aikman, Farve, Elway, Brady.

That's a lot of Super Bowls won with franchise QB's.

Go ahead prove your point that its easier to win a SB with a "bus driver" like Bledsoe.

Well, heck, anyone with any credibility can prove this point. It's easy.

Simpy put together a defense like the Bears had with bus driver Jim McMahon...and the Ravens had with bus driver Trent Dilfer. Voila.

That's why we see so many defense like those two. Easy as snapping one's fingers.

 

[trueblue1687]

Starr, Namath, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Aikman, Farve, Elway, Brady.

That's a lot of Super Bowls won with franchise QB's.

Go ahead prove your point that its easier to win a SB with a "bus driver" like Bledsoe.

Ages are in parenthesis. Looks like quite a few bus drivers. Some of you guys may not remember some of these names. I count 19 guys who were definately "bus drivers"...several others are REAL "iffy". Humphries for one. On the other hand, there are several franchise type guys who went once, and several who went for YEARS (Elway) before going to the bowl. I found it kinda interesting. I'll probably get some arguments about some of these, but if they moved teams, then they are not glued to the franchise, therefore they aren't franchise. You could argue that Favre and Delhomme and Young aren't, but the majority of their careers were with one team. Enjoy and keep punching!


I - 1/15/67
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - Alabama (*33)
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Purdue (31)

II - 1/14/68
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - Alabama (34)
Daryle Lamonica, Oakland Raiders - Notre Dame (26)

III - 1/12/69
Joe Namath, New York Jets - Alabama (25)
Earl Morrall, Baltimore Colts - Michigan State (34)

IV - 1/11/70
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Purdue (34)
Joe Kapp, Minnesota Vikings - California (31)

V - 1/17/71
Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - Louisville (37)
Craig Morton, Dallas Cowboys - California (27)

VI - 1/16/72
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (29)
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (26)

VII - 1/14/73
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (27)
Bill Kilmer, Washington Commanders - UCLA (33)

VIII - 1/13/74
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (28)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (33)

IX - 1/12/75
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (26)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (34)

X - 1/18/76
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (27)
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (33)

XI - 1/9/77
Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - Alabama (31)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (36)

XII - 1/15/78
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (35)
Craig Morton, Denver Broncos - California (34) already counted

XIII - 1/21/79
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (30)
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (36)

XIV - 1/20/80
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (31)
Vince Ferragamo, Los Angeles Rams - California, Nebraska (25)

XV - 1/25/81
Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - Stanford (33)
Ron Jaworski, Philadelphia Eagles - Youngstown State (29)

XVI - 1/24/82
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (25)
Ken Anderson, Cincinnati Bengals - Augustana (IL) (32)

XVII - 1/30/83
Joe Theismann, Washington Commanders - Notre Dame (33)
David Woodley, Miami Dolphins - Louisiana State (24)

XVIII - 1/22/84
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - Stanford (36)
Joe Theismann, Washington Commanders - Notre Dame (34)

XIX - 1/20/85
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (28)
Dan Marino, Miami Dolphins - Pittsburgh (23)

XX - 1/26/86
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - BYU (26)
Tony Eason, New England Patriots - Illinois (26)

XXI - 1/25/87
Phil Simms, New York Giants - Morehead State (32) Correct, he wasn't franchise
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (26)

XXII - 1/31/88
Doug Williams, Washington Commanders - Grambling (32)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (27)

XXIII - 1/22/89
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (32)
Boomer Esiason, Cincinnati Bengals - Maryland (27)

XXIV - 1/28/90
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (33)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (29)

XXV - 1/27/91
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - West Virginia (29)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (30)

XXVI - 1/26/92
Mark Rypien, Washington Commanders - Washington State (30)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (31)

XXVII - 1/31/93
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (26)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (32)

XXVIII - 1/30/94
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (27)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (33)

XXIX - 1/29/95
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - BYU (33)
Stan Humphries, San Diego Chargers - NE Louisiana (29) Barely franchise

XXX - 1/28/96
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (29)
Neil O'Donnell, Pittsburgh Steelers - Maryland (29)

XXXI - 1/26/97
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Southern Mississippi (27)
Drew Bledsoe, New England Patriots - Washington State (24)

XXXII - 1/25/98
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (37)
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Southern Mississippi (28)

XXXIII - 1/31/99
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (38)
Chris Chandler, Atlanta Falcons - Washington (33)

XXXIV - 1/30/00
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - Northern Iowa (28)
Steve McNair, Tennessee Titans - Alcorn State (26)

XXXV - 1/28/01
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - Fresno State (28)
Kerry Collins, New York Giants - Penn State (28)

XXXVI - 2/3/02
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (24)
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - Northern Iowa (30)

XXXVII - 1/26/03
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Florida State (34)
Rich Gannon, Oakland Raiders - Delaware (37)

XXXVIII - 2/1/04
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (26)
Jake Delhomme, Carolina Panthers - Louisiana-Lafayette (29) XXXVIX - 2/6/05
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (27)
Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia - Syracuse (28)

 

[Juke99]

Ages are in parenthesis. Looks like quite a few bus drivers. Some of you guys may not remember some of these names. I count 19 guys who were definately "bus drivers"...several others are REAL "iffy". Humphries for one. On the other hand, there are several franchise type guys who went once, and several who went for YEARS (Elway) before going to the bowl. I found it kinda interesting. I'll probably get some arguments about some of these, but if they moved teams, then they are not glued to the franchise, therefore they aren't franchise. You could argue that Favre and Delhomme and Young aren't, but the majority of their careers were with one team. Enjoy and keep punching!

Thanks.

I dunno..by your count 19 QB's out of 78 total were "bus drivers"...I'd argue Warner because he wasn't a bus driver...he hasn't had a long franchise QB career....but his numbers exceeded most of the franchise guys.

So, 59 to 19 is a pretty decisive margin.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ages are in parenthesis. Looks like quite a few bus drivers. Some of you guys may not remember some of these names. I count 19 guys who were definately "bus drivers"...several others are REAL "iffy". Humphries for one. On the other hand, there are several franchise type guys who went once, and several who went for YEARS (Elway) before going to the bowl. I found it kinda interesting. I'll probably get some arguments about some of these, but if they moved teams, then they are not glued to the franchise, therefore they aren't franchise. You could argue that Favre and Delhomme and Young aren't, but the majority of their careers were with one team. Enjoy and keep punching!


I - 1/15/67
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - Alabama (*33)
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Purdue (31)

II - 1/14/68
Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - Alabama (34)
Daryle Lamonica, Oakland Raiders - Notre Dame (26)

III - 1/12/69
Joe Namath, New York Jets - Alabama (25)
Earl Morrall, Baltimore Colts - Michigan State (34)

IV - 1/11/70
Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Purdue (34)
Joe Kapp, Minnesota Vikings - California (31)

V - 1/17/71
Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - Louisville (37)
Craig Morton, Dallas Cowboys - California (27)

VI - 1/16/72
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (29)
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (26)

VII - 1/14/73
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (27)
Bill Kilmer, Washington Commanders - UCLA (33)

VIII - 1/13/74
Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - Purdue (28)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (33)

IX - 1/12/75
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (26)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (34)

X - 1/18/76
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (27)
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (33)

XI - 1/9/77
Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - Alabama (31)
Fran Tarkenton, Minnesota Vikings - Georgia (36)

XII - 1/15/78
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (35)
Craig Morton, Denver Broncos - California (34) already counted

XIII - 1/21/79
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (30)
Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Navy (36)

XIV - 1/20/80
Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - Louisiana Tech (31)
Vince Ferragamo, Los Angeles Rams - California, Nebraska (25)

XV - 1/25/81
Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - Stanford (33)
Ron Jaworski, Philadelphia Eagles - Youngstown State (29)

XVI - 1/24/82
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (25)
Ken Anderson, Cincinnati Bengals - Augustana (IL) (32)

XVII - 1/30/83
Joe Theismann, Washington Commanders - Notre Dame (33)
David Woodley, Miami Dolphins - Louisiana State (24)

XVIII - 1/22/84
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - Stanford (36)
Joe Theismann, Washington Commanders - Notre Dame (34)

XIX - 1/20/85
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (28)
Dan Marino, Miami Dolphins - Pittsburgh (23)

XX - 1/26/86
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - BYU (26)
Tony Eason, New England Patriots - Illinois (26)

XXI - 1/25/87
Phil Simms, New York Giants - Morehead State (32) Correct, he wasn't franchise
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (26)

XXII - 1/31/88
Doug Williams, Washington Commanders - Grambling (32)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (27)

XXIII - 1/22/89
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (32)
Boomer Esiason, Cincinnati Bengals - Maryland (27)

XXIV - 1/28/90
Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - Notre Dame (33)
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (29)

XXV - 1/27/91
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - West Virginia (29)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (30)

XXVI - 1/26/92
Mark Rypien, Washington Commanders - Washington State (30)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (31)

XXVII - 1/31/93
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (26)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (32)

XXVIII - 1/30/94
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (27)
Jim Kelly, Buffalo Bills - Miami (FL) (33)

XXIX - 1/29/95
Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - BYU (33)
Stan Humphries, San Diego Chargers - NE Louisiana (29) Barely franchise

XXX - 1/28/96
Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - Oklahoma, UCLA (29)
Neil O'Donnell, Pittsburgh Steelers - Maryland (29)

XXXI - 1/26/97
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Southern Mississippi (27)
Drew Bledsoe, New England Patriots - Washington State (24)

XXXII - 1/25/98
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (37)
Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Southern Mississippi (28)

XXXIII - 1/31/99
John Elway, Denver Broncos - Stanford (38)
Chris Chandler, Atlanta Falcons - Washington (33)

XXXIV - 1/30/00
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - Northern Iowa (28)
Steve McNair, Tennessee Titans - Alcorn State (26)

XXXV - 1/28/01
Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - Fresno State (28)
Kerry Collins, New York Giants - Penn State (28)

XXXVI - 2/3/02
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (24)
Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - Northern Iowa (30)

XXXVII - 1/26/03
Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Florida State (34)
Rich Gannon, Oakland Raiders - Delaware (37)

XXXVIII - 2/1/04
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (26)
Jake Delhomme, Carolina Panthers - Louisiana-Lafayette (29) XXXVIX - 2/6/05
Tom Brady, New England Patriots - Michigan (27)
Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia - Syracuse (28)

I'm counting 26 SB winners that were better QB's than Bledsoe...

 

[burmafrd]

So that makes 13 that are not even by your biased standard. 2 to 1. Suddenly the odds are not so bad. Once again- GETTING the franchise guy is the HARD PART.
ESPECIALLY today. I would LOVE to have a franchise QB. Where do you see one?

 

[trueblue1687]

Thanks.

I dunno..by your count 19 QB's out of 78 total were "bus drivers"...I'd argue Warner because he wasn't a bus driver...he hasn't had a long franchise QB career....but his numbers exceeded most of the franchise guys.

So, 59 to 19 is a pretty decisive margin.

I know that there will be disagreement with my evaluation, but by and large a "franchise quarterback" is considered one that the "franchise" builds around and generally (but not set in stone) said QB is drafted by the team as well. So, if the QB is traded off I don't think that the franchise has built around him...traded for could be a different story

*** I didn't address Bledsoe in the mix. He was a franchise QB w/ New England, but obviously not in Buffalo or Dallas. My point here was not that there were more or less "bus drivers". Just that there have been. I think having roughly 25% of ALL superbowl quarterbacks being "bus drivers" says that they can be quite successful. I will also point out that very few "franchise" QB's have been the sole guy for their franchise. Staubach, Bradshaw, Young, Brady all lost their starting jobs or were a part of some LEGITIMATE QB dilemma. Just food for thought.