Can anyone explain not punting with 1 minute left?

[Nightman]

What difference does it make? You think there is some ideological foolproof way that works for all situations then I can see where our disconnect is.

Buh bye

 

[Cowboy4ever]

DAL trails CAR 21-17 with 25secs left. They score a TD and make it 23-21. Instead of kicking the extra point and risking a block that could be returned for 2 points they line up for 2 and take a knee.

Are you guys saying that is the right call? The other team will go for an all out block. They have nothing to lose, even a penalty won't hurt.

That only happens if they go for two, right? Serious question because I don't know but I would think that if they are kicking an extra point, even if it is returned, it wouldn't be for two points. But that's an interesting question. And no, I wouldn't take the knee cause you need the extra point. At the part of the game we are discussing in the MIA game, you just didn't need a quick score so they took that option away. Not the same thing as the question you posed.

 

[Proximo]

I simply can't believe this is a debate.

Truly mind boggling.

When you're 3-7, there's most definitely some things worth criticizing. This decision is not one of those things.

 

[Nightman]

Truly mind boggling.

When you're 3-7, there's most definitely some things worth criticizing. This decision is not one of those things.

It's called learning how to win, not trying not to lose. Big difference.

The play as we ran it, increased the chances of MIA winning.
Punting inside the 15 would decrease MIA's chances of winning by a lot.

You are right. It is not even a debate.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Buh bye

Well sorry if I have to rub your face in it but you cannot talk directly about what happened on the field. You keep trying to bring up other things like hypotheticals and other specious nonsense when you should have just agreed to disagree awhile ago. It's obvious that you are so blinded by your anger or whatever it is you have going on to be rational about evaluating Garrett.

Unfortunately for you, the outcome was that we won the game and I am fine hanging my hat on that.

 

[Nightman]

That only happens if they go for two, right? Serious question because I don't know but I would think that if they are kicking an extra point, even if it is returned, it wouldn't be for two points. But that's an interesting question. And no, I wouldn't take the knee cause you need the extra point. At the part of the game we are discussing in the MIA game, you just didn't need a quick score so they took that option away. Not the same thing as the question you posed.

You can still get 2 points if you line up for an extra point at the 15. A botched snap and desperation run or pass would result in 2 points.

So either way a returned XP would result in 2 points for the defense.

 

[Nightman]

Well sorry if I have to rub your face in it but you cannot talk directly about what happened on the field. You keep trying to bring up other things like hypotheticals and other specious nonsense when you should have just agreed to disagree awhile ago. It's obvious that you are so blinded by your anger or whatever it is you have going on to be rational about evaluating Garrett.

Unfortunately for you, the outcome was that we won the game and I am fine hanging my hat on that.

Just do your job

 

[Dodger12]

This is what it always comes down to. Fans thinking they know better than the coach. You have your list of mistakes and have it all figured out. They only think they're smart!

Yeah, as if you don't critique players and coaches when you give us your "thoughts," which, by the way, I appreciate even though I don't always agree with it. What I don't agree with is the glass house you live in when you give us your thoughts and may have questioned a call, decision or player but then feel that no one else can do it.

And yes, I do believe that many fans, as well as little league and HS coaches, would have managed the clock better in situations that I've seen Garrett fail at and do it more than once. There's a reason the owner called Garrett a trainee. Maybe if he would have earned his coaching stripes before being given the keys the most visible and valuable franchise in all of sports, he may not have had these issues. But he had no coaching experience from which to revert to as a point of reference to make the right calls. Sorry if that offends your idol.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

You can still get 2 points if you line up for an extra point at the 15. A botched snap and desperation run or pass would result in 2 points.

So either way a returned XP would result in 2 points for the defense.

That's cool, thanks, I didn't know that. But my answer is still the same, you need the extra point so you take the risk. There was absoutley no reason to punt that ball, so you don't take the risk. Smart coaching and good game management.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah, as if you don't critique players and coaches when you give us your "thoughts," which, by the way, I appreciate even though I don't always agree with it. What I don't agree with is the glass house you live in when you give us your thoughts and may have questioned a call, decision or player but then feel that no one else can do it.

And yes, I do believe that many fans, as well as little league and HS coaches, would have managed the clock better in situations that I've seen Garrett fail at and do it more than once. There's a reason the owner called Garrett a trainee. Maybe if he would have earned his coaching stripes before being given the keys the most visible and valuable franchise in all of sports, he may not have had these issues. But he had no coaching experience from which to revert to as a point of reference to make the right calls. Sorry if that offends your idol.

My idol? That is cute. I am fine with upgrading Garrett. I don't think he has shown the capability to develop a QB and if you could bring in a guy like Sean Peyton who has then sign me up. We are really going to need that and it is the rarest of rare talent. What I don't subscribe to is this emotional reactionism get rid of him at all costs nonsense. I think he deserves a lot of credit for developing the OL, WR, and RB talent even if Demarco got away. You need to pair him with a defensive mind though. He is not the best coach but neither is he the worst.

And sure a HS coach who had managed games for X years would make less of the same mistakes as neophyte Garrett. Thing is he stopped making those mistakes what 2 years ago?

Keep being mad. It must be doing a whole lot of good for all involved. I never claim to know more than NFL coaches in any of my thoughts.

 

[Nightman]

That's cool, thanks, I didn't know that. But my answer is still the same, you need the extra point so you take the risk. There was absoutley no reason to punt that ball, so you don't take the risk. Smart coaching and good game management.

Almost 40 yards in field position is why you punt the ball. The same reason you punt all game.

Expected points from inside the 10 is -1.89
At the 40 it is 1.47

MIA's winning percentage went from .1% to .7% on that one play

that is a really big difference

 

[rpntex]

DAL trails CAR 21-17 with 25secs left. They score a TD and make it 23-21. Instead of kicking the extra point and risking a block that could be returned for 2 points they line up for 2 and take a knee.

Are you guys saying that is the right call? The other team will go for an all out block. They have nothing to lose, even a penalty won't hurt.

Of course not. The example you gave is a ONE SCORE GAME. That is a scenario when the reward (gong up 3, so a FG can only tie) justifies the risk (worst case scenario results in a tie). If Carolina gets lucky and hits a long pass in those last two minutes, they still can only tie with a FG. If they get extremely lucky and connect for a TD, it wouldn't matter what Dallas did. A TD wins in either scenario.

Yesterday's game was a 2-score affair at the time the RIGHT decision was made.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Almost 40 yards in field position is why you punt the ball. The same reason you punt all game.

Expected points from inside the 10 is -1.89
At the 40 it is 1.47

MIA's winning percentage went from .1% to .7% on that one play

that is a really big difference

Your making a huge assumption that it would be downed inside the 10. If the punt got off cleanly its most likely a touchback since the punter would have to get it off quick and not really concern himself on the direction or distance. Just get it out. So in reality your talking 16 yards of field position vs the potential of a blocked punt or mishandled snap etc. the decision not to punt was the right call. Now if you want to say the play call could have been better than I would tend to agree with you. A straight dive would have gained a yard or two and not lost yardage.

Either way just cause you don't agree with it doesn't make it a bad call.

 

[Dodger12]

My idol? That is cute. I am fine with upgrading Garrett. I don't think he has shown the capability to develop a QB and if you could bring in a guy like Sean Peyton who has then sign me up. We are really going to need that and it is the rarest of rare talent. What I don't subscribe to is this emotional reactionism get rid of him at all costs nonsense. I think he deserves a lot of credit for developing the OL, WR, and RB talent even if Demarco got away. You need to pair him with a defensive mind though. He is not the best coach but neither is he the worst.

And sure a HS coach who had managed games for X years would make less of the same mistakes as neophyte Garrett. Thing is he stopped making those mistakes what 2 years ago?

Keep being mad. It must be doing a whole lot of good for all involved. I never claim to know more than NFL coaches in any of my thoughts.

You may not have claimed to know more than coaches but what gives you the wherewithal to critique and question them in some areas yet for folks like me that's taboo? Or is it only taboo for certain topics like thew HC? In any event, I'm not angry. Not int he least. I'm not "invested" in Garrett. You can give him credit for developing 4 first round talents on the OL but I find that laughable. You claim he developed WR's yet we couldn't seem to find an answer when Dez went down. He's had 2 second round tight ends, one (Bennett) that he couldn't get through to and one (Escobar) that can't seem to fit into our game plan or be a threat one would expect from a 2nd round pick. And as for developing RB talent, I saw little of that with Felix or Choice. Randle and Michael flopped because they were knuckleheads. And it's hard to develop the RB position when you don't value the run or use the RB. I mean, this is just non-sense and you're really reaching for positives.

I give you some credit though because I think you see the issues but just can't come to grips with being too harsh on the man but admitting he's a neophyte who has made some mistakes is a good start.

 

[Dodger12]

I think the idea is that the coaches of the team are smarter than the pseudo coaches on this forum. Jason Garrett has made mistakes just as every coach in the league has. But the nonsense on this forum of calling him out for every decision that people do not understand is ridiculous.

I understand why he made the decision not to punt the ball in that situation and I agree with it.

I'll tell you what. I offer my services as a time manager because I absolutely think I could have done better than some of his training mistakes. Most fans could have. I can even be the guy to decide if we should squib kick it or not, since that was just a dumb, dumb decision towards the end of the 1st half which directly led to a TD. Just because Tannehill is inept and Romo was back to save the day (again), it doesn't make the decision a correct one.

But I do agree that the decision at the end of the game really wasn't a huge deal, at least to me. What's telling is that he didn't trust his team (yes, the team he built) enough to be able to put it inside the 10 or 20 from the Dolphins 40 yard line. Whatever.......

 

[Dodger12]

Garrett trusted his defense over his special teams and his defense ended up coming up in a big way don't you think? Nah cause that would mean he gets credit for winning the game and you cannot handle that.

This is priceless. He loses 7 straight and it's everyone else's fault but Garrett. He wins one when Romo comes back and we want to give Garrett credit....priceless....!!!!

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is priceless. He loses 7 straight and it's everyone else's fault but Garrett. He wins one when Romo comes back and we want to give Garrett credit....priceless....!!!!

What is priceless is I just got done telling you that I thought Garrett couldn't develop QBs and a coach I prefered over him and this is what you come up with? How many times do I have to tell you I don't even think in terms of fault or blame before you finally figure it out?

You may not have claimed to know more than coaches but what gives you the wherewithal to critique and question them in some areas yet for folks like me that's taboo? Or is it only taboo for certain topics like thew HC? In any event, I'm not angry. Not int he least. I'm not "invested" in Garrett. You can give him credit for developing 4 first round talents on the OL but I find that laughable. You claim he developed WR's yet we couldn't seem to find an answer when Dez went down. He's had 2 second round tight ends, one (Bennett) that he couldn't get through to and one (Escobar) that can't seem to fit into our game plan or be a threat one would expect from a 2nd round pick. And as for developing RB talent, I saw little of that with Felix or Choice. Randle and Michael flopped because they were knuckleheads. And it's hard to develop the RB position when you don't value the run or use the RB. I mean, this is just non-sense and you're really reaching for positives.

I give you some credit though because I think you see the issues but just can't come to grips with being too harsh on the man but admitting he's a neophyte who has made some mistakes is a good start.

Now Garrett doesn't value the run?

I never said you couldn't critique them. I'm arguing you on merit. I have even admitted that he has faults. I'm not the one that is all or nothing mindlessness, chachi.

 

[Nightman]

Your making a huge assumption that it would be downed inside the 10. If the punt got off cleanly its most likely a touchback since the punter would have to get it off quick and not really concern himself on the direction or distance. Just get it out. So in reality your talking 16 yards of field position vs the potential of a blocked punt or mishandled snap etc. the decision not to punt was the right call. Now if you want to say the play call could have been better than I would tend to agree with you. A straight dive would have gained a yard or two and not lost yardage.

Either way just cause you don't agree with it doesn't make it a bad call.

That was a very small assumption. CJones is paid millions to do his job, so is LPL.

A coach has to trust his players to their jobs.

It was a bad call because it hurt the teams chance of winning.

 

[DogFace]

I would've lined up to pass and let Romo quick kick it. He's a great athlete. I'm sure he'd do fine and if there was pressure he'd just eat it.

 

[kazzd58]

he did convert a 3rd and 20 plus on the same drive on a run... shrugs