Can Dak get the hat trick?

CowboyFrog

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Yeah it can be difficult.. maybe impossible to isolate a player from the other 52 guys on the roster. But nobody thought that Matthew Stafford "stinks" despite only having 3 winning seasons in 12 years in Detroit did they? Well maybe some people did but most recognize he was a good QB in a bad situation. Just like some people saw Goff having success with McVay holding the training wheels and declared he was better than Dak. Many of us maintained from the jump that this was simply not true.. and it has proven out over time. As hard as it is for some people to accept, Dak has stepped into that rarified air among QBs where you'd have to think long and hard about who you would trade him for straight up. Coming into 2020 there were maybe 9 or 10.. By game 4 or 5 last year it was maybe 4-5 ... At this point.. I would struggle to get past 2 or 3. And not one of them would be a no brainer.. Dak offers us a promise of maybe 10 more years of this level of QB play. Maybe more.. Anybody I'm trading him for would have to be playing at least as well as he is (not a lot of guys on that list) and be able to either a) all but guarantee me a date in the Super Bowl or b) be around playing at this level for at least 5 more years. That's a really really short list.


Exactly why did he not just elevate JAGS then...(Stafford), As i have said before some will give evryone on the team credit before Dak gets any and they will not change thier minds no matter what happens...Some have actually come out and given him credit...Again this whole offense looks good and to me they are all important, but the biggest loss would be the QB if it happened and its not close.
 

RonnieT24

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Exactly why did he not just elevate JAGS then...

To which "he" are you referring? The notion of one player "elevating" another is a myth. A guy can only play as well as his ability and preparation allows him to. Good coaching can help cover for a guy's lack of ability but in the final analysis he either can make the play or he can't. People like to point to 2018 when Dak had JAG receivers for 8 games and he was very pedestrian.. Then when we acquired Coop Dak and the offense took off. Apparently that was "proof that Dak can't carry a team." As if pairing a QB with guys who can't get open is somehow his fault.. It's no coincidence that Brady looked completely washed his last year in New England without Gronk and with Edelman hurt much of the year. Then suddenly he's paired with a great trio of receivers in Tampa and a rejuvenated Gronk after a year off and suddenly he's found the fountain of youth. Football is the ultimate team game.. and in most cases if all 11 guys on the field don't do their jobs the scheme fails.. Yes a great player can help make up if one guy maybe two doesn't win his matchup on any given play.. but you can't survive if that's a consistent theme.
 

CowboyFrog

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To which "he" are you referring? The notion of one player "elevating" another is a myth. A guy can only play as well as his ability and preparation allows him to. Good coaching can help cover for a guy's lack of ability but in the final analysis he either can make the play or he can't. People like to point to 2018 when Dak had JAG receivers for 8 games and he was very pedestrian.. Then when we acquired Coop Dak and the offense took off. Apparently that was "proof that Dak can't carry a team." As if pairing a QB with guys who can't get open is somehow his fault.. It's no coincidence that Brady looked completely washed his last year in New England without Gronk and with Edelman hurt much of the year. Then suddenly he's paired with a great trio of receivers in Tampa and a rejuvenated Gronk after a year off and suddenly he's found the fountain of youth. Football is the ultimate team game.. and in most cases if all 11 guys on the field don't do their jobs the scheme fails.. Yes a great player can help make up if one guy maybe two doesn't win his matchup on any given play.. but you can't survive if that's a consistent theme.


Stafford..again obviously Stafford is a good QB but like all QB's he needs players around him....this whole "Great QB's lift a team" is ridiculous. Great QB's are not great on bad teams
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Hey, Ronnie, I have a question for you. Every since you joined this forum you love to come across as the smartest guy in the room. So, my question for you. Would Dak have the same success if he played for this years Jets team? Or any other losing team this year? Dak is killing it with the Cowboy team, however, is he that great of a QB, or is it a product of the team he plays for?

Embarrassing…..
Wasn't that the year that Romo won the Passing title?
Passing title for what? Yards?
 

DFWJC

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Passing leader? MVP and Comeback player of the year?

The kid who can't throw is now the second highest rated passer in the NFL and is completing 74% of his passes despite his glaring accuracy issues.. What a lucky duck he must be.. Right now he sits behind Russell Wilson who obviously is gone for 6-8 weeks maybe more.. If Wilson doesn't come back he will fall off the qualifier list which means Dak has a realistic shot at the "passing title" this season. If the Cowboys finished with 13-14 wins he's definitely going to be in the MVP conversation and the Comeback player award is almost a given at this point..

AlI can say is .. wow!
Not out of the question.
The man is ballin'

:flagwave:

In the combined stats updates after week 5, he is tied for 5th (2nd in Passer Rating and 9th in Total TDs-Turnovers)

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/post-week-5-qb-combined-statistical-ranking.485790/#post-11277669

With the upcoming schedule, I really don't see him falling much and he could easily keep rising.
Wilson is hurt for 4-6 weeks, so he is probably out. of contention

The current top 6 via "Combined Stats" are....but very early and with 12 games to go
  1. Wilson
  2. Brady
  3. Stafford
  4. Murray
  5. Prescott and Mahomes

But again...a very long way to go.

Definitely the front-runner for Comeback Player

Btw, a straight passer rating is a good indicator but can be limited due the possibility that a semi-bus driver (like Tannehill was two years ago) can win it.

But add in TDs-Turnover differential and you weed out those guys.

The MVP is almost always either first or second in this combined stat.
Probably 90% of the time
 

RonnieT24

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Embarrassing…..

Passing title for what? Yards?

Most consider the leader in passer rating to have won the "passing title." Romo did indeed win it in 2014 which bolsters my contention our strong running game will only help Dak in this regard. I'm rooting for Dak to get it because it further erodes the background noise about his lack of efficiency as a passer.. I know most of that noise has died down anyway but I can still hear an occasional whisper.. Winning the passer rating title should sew the lips of those detractors shut.
 

RonnieT24

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Stafford..again obviously Stafford is a good QB but like all QB's he needs players around him....this whole "Great QB's lift a team" is ridiculous. Great QB's are not great on bad teams

Yeah I am left to wonder how many people will start claiming that "Mahomes sucks" now that he is seemingly unable to bail out that putrid defense of his. I mean didn't 100 people here tell us last year that our 2-3 start last year was proof that Dak cannot elevate his team the way Mahomes does? Apparently his elevator done broke down this year.. Or maybe the fact that his defense is giving up 32.6 ppg is the problem.. Mahomes is still great but as a very wise man said when people were doggin Dak for our start last year, the QB has not been born who can overcome a defense giving up 32 points per game...
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Most consider the leader in passer rating to have won the "passing title." Romo did indeed win it in 2014 which bolsters my contention our strong running game will only help Dak in this regard. I'm rooting for Dak to get it because it further erodes the background noise about his lack of efficiency as a passer.. I know most of that noise has died down anyway but I can still hear an occasional whisper.. Winning the passer rating title should sew the lips of those detractors shut.
Ahh ok I see so it’s passer rating damn I didn’t realize it was that high that year.
 

CowboyFrog

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Yeah I am left to wonder how many people will start claiming that "Mahomes sucks" now that he is seemingly unable to bail out that putrid defense of his. I mean didn't 100 people here tell us last year that our 2-3 start last year was proof that Dak cannot elevate his team the way Mahomes does? Apparently his elevator done broke down this year.. Or maybe the fact that his defense is giving up 32.6 ppg is the problem.. Mahomes is still great but as a very wise man said when people were doggin Dak for our start last year, the QB has not been born who can overcome a defense giving up 32 points per game...


Obsolutley...but Mahomes will get a pass for winning with a great team..you know how they work.
 

DFWJC

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Stafford..again obviously Stafford is a good QB but like all QB's he needs players around him....this whole "Great QB's lift a team" is ridiculous. Great QB's are not great on bad teams
True.
For starters, there is the whole other side of the football plus special teams.

But it's all relative.

In Stafford's years with Detroit, if you took every team's average defensive rank over that time frame, the Lions would be in the 30-32 range out of 32 teams

And he is the ONLY QB in NFL history to have had almost no run game for his entire tenure.
ONE 1000 yard rusher in 12 years.

Dallas had the the 32nd ranked defense one time in the last 30 years....that was in 2013.
And Dallas had a 1000 yard rusher (or very close) for the last 30 years as well.

You can't make freak negatives like that up if tried.
Nobody ever came close to having that dire of a situation for so long a time as Stafford had.
Unforntuanly for him, now he is no longer at his physical peak. 13 year veteran who had the hell beat out him most years.

Granted, the rare years (2014 great defense) where the overall roster was better, they did make the playoffs but lost.
 

RonnieT24

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True.
For starters, there is the whole other side of the football plus special teams.

But it's all relative.

In Stafford's years with Detroit, if you took every team's average defensive rank over that time frame, the Lions would be in the 30-32 range out of 32 teams

And he is the ONLY QB in NFL history to have had almost no run game for his entire tenure.
ONE 1000 yard rusher in 12 years.

Dallas had the the 32nd ranked defense one time in the last 30 years....that was in 2013.
And Dallas had a 1000 yard rusher (or very close) for the last 30 years as well.

You can't make freak negatives like that up if tried.
Nobody ever came close to having that dire of a situation for so long a time as Stafford had.
Unforntuanly for him, now he is no longer at his physical peak. 13 year veteran who had the hell beat out him most years.

Granted, the rare years (2014 great defense) where the overall roster was better, they did make the playoffs but lost.

I admire Stafford as much as the next guy but the only time his defense was that bad was his rookie year and his last year.. They were #3 scoring and #2 in yards in 2014 as you mentioned and #16 in points and #10 yards in 2018.. Other than those years they generally sat around the middle of the pack. Not bad, not good.. just meh.. However Stafford also had the best receiver in football for 8 or 9 years. I thought the Lions screwed up firing Jim Caldwell. That dude was a good coach.. He took them to two of their three playoffs with Stafford and had a winning record in 3 of his 4 seasons including their best record in 25 years in 2014. They basically wasted Stafford's last three seasons on Patricia.. and they missed on lineman a lot as well. I wish him well in LA until they face us in the playoffs.
 

sjmike

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Dak is ballin for sure, however, some are missing the real goal, the SB. Most of these posts about Dak this and that seem to forget that the success Dak is having is because of the others on the team...but they don't count, I guess.
Dak is our quarterback and playing lights out. So the OP is hoping that he wins some awards. Doesn't mean he doesn't want the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl. Doesn't mean he is rubbing it in the faces of the people who doubted him. Yeah, it's a team game and everyone has to play well to go all the way. We all know that. If he said that he hopes Zeke wins the rushing title, would you take offense to it as much??
 

5Stars

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Dak is our quarterback and playing lights out. So the OP is hoping that he wins some awards. Doesn't mean he doesn't want the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl. Doesn't mean he is rubbing it in the faces of the people who doubted him. Yeah, it's a team game and everyone has to play well to go all the way. We all know that. If he said that he hopes Zeke wins the rushing title, would you take offense to it as much??

I don't take offense to any player, just the team itself. No one player makes a team.
 

DFWJC

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I admire Stafford as much as the next guy but the only time his defense was that bad was his rookie year and his last year.. They were #3 scoring and #2 in yards in 2014 as you mentioned and #16 in points and #10 yards in 2018.. Other than those years they generally sat around the middle of the pack. Not bad, not good.. just meh.. However Stafford also had the best receiver in football for 8 or 9 years. I thought the Lions screwed up firing Jim Caldwell. That dude was a good coach.. He took them to two of their three playoffs with Stafford and had a winning record in 3 of his 4 seasons including their best record in 25 years in 2014. They basically wasted Stafford's last three seasons on Patricia.. and they missed on lineman a lot as well. I wish him well in LA until they face us in the playoffs.
They were great in 2014.....even dominant at times
 
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