Can Jason Campbell bounce back?

[firehawk350]

I doubt very seriously anybody's opinion will be even close to unbiased here. Nonetheless, I will try and here's my take...

I think a couple of factors played into Campbell's "struggles" (though, he did do relatively well). First off was the lack of any real protection. Not many QBs will do well missing the right side of their line. Tom Brady folded under pressure in the super bowl that Campbell had to deal with every game. Shore that up, that alone may see a jump in Campbell's performance.

Secondly, the receivers did drop a lot. I think it's partially on Campbell, but you can't deny that they should have caught most of those they dropped. I think Campbell needs to learn to take a little bit off his throws sometimes and needs to work on his deep accuracy, but there were a couple of INTs that was caused by poor routes (think Brandon Lloyd in the first Miami game), poor receiving (think the ball bouncing off Moss' shoulder pad and INTed) and poor officiating (when a defender and Randle El clearly both caught the pass, the tie goes to the receiver and it was ruled an INT). None of that could be drawn back to Campbell's play.

Third, it was very clear that Saunders was handicapping JC with his playcalling. It might be for a good reason, but seemingly each time they gave a bit more of the reins to JC, he immediately produced more. I think if he was given the same playcalling treatment as Todd Collins, we'd be singing a whole different tune right now.

As for prognostication on how he'll do under Zorn and in a WCO at an NFL level, we'll see. If you held a gun to my head and made me choose, I would say we'd struggle in the first 3-4 games and he'd be coming on strong in Nov and Dec, provided there isn't another rash of injuries.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Bounceback from what? Having a 77 QB rating last season?

I think he's going to have a hard time adjusting to Zorn's WCO. Auburn played the WCO in his senior year, when they had a stacked team, a shutdown defense, and he basically threw screen passes or threw it deep. In Zorn's offense he'll likely have to hit a lot quick hitting, timing patterns which doesn't bode well with his questionable footwork and long release.

He also relies too much on Cooley to bail him out. His efficiency on passing to WR's last year was pathetic and I get the feeling that Zorn will try and set up more plays to the WR's this year. Not to mention that their O-Line is old and we saw how well they looked with Chris Samuels out with an injury. If he gets injured for a longer period of time, it's probably going to be tough for them.




YAKUZA

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I personally think that JC shows some flashes of being able to be a very good QB. I don't know if he ever will do that on a consistent basis, or not, but he does show flashes.

Now the one thing that will heavily work against him this year is the fans. If he starts out reallys low, and the Skins come out of the gates 1-3, then there is going to be a HUGE pull for him to be seated in favor of Collins cause of how well Collins played at the end of last season.

JC is in one of those crappy situations that you'd really rather your QB not find themselves in.

 

[Sonny#9]

he basically threw screen passes or threw it deep.

Ah yes -- didn't you say that about Brunell in 2005? Do you just recycle the same arguments? What's next LaRon Landry giving up the most TD's in the NFL? You still have that "secret password" to Stats LLC from your friend that "works in the AP"?

He also relies too much on Cooley to bail him out.

A young QB relying on an all-pro TE to bail him out? You don't say!

Not to mention that their O-Line is old and we saw how well they looked with Chris Samuels out with an injury.

You mean the line isn't going to play as well as when an elite left tackle is hurt?

If he gets injured for a longer period of time, it's probably going to be tough for them.

But if he's not that good, and Collins is supposedly better, wouldn't that help the Commanders?

I personally love the arguments in this thread, lots of riveting analysis based solely on conjecture. The truth is one one has any idea how the Commanders in general are going to be let alone how Campbell is going to play.

I do know he played very well in the WCO in college: 188/270 2700, 20 TDs 7 INTs. Certainly the running game was a big factor -- however it's not like Campbell was throwing to some all-world receivers either. I am optimistic about moving to the WCO, but I can't sit here and tell you Campbell is going to be an All-Pro QB or an utter failure. I am going to reserve judgement until after FA and the draft.

 

[Sonny#9]

I personally think that JC shows some flashes of being able to be a very good QB. I don't know if he ever will do that on a consistent basis, or not, but he does show flashes.

He does show flashes, and then he throws those KILLER int's like in the Tampa game. He also suffered from some crucial drops -- like the GB game. Santana holds onto the ball -- and Campbell "wins" that game.

Now the one thing that will heavily work against him this year is the fans. If he starts out reallys low, and the Skins come out of the gates 1-3, then there is going to be a HUGE pull for him to be seated in favor of Collins cause of how well Collins played at the end of last season.

Here is my take on Collins. He's Billy Volek. A good back-up QB who can come in and play well -- but as a full-time starter he's questionable at best. People love to point out how much better he played then Campbell. But one, he had oodles more time to throw, for whatever reason (most likely Todd Wade wasn't playing any more!). Two, the level of competition -- he faced the Giants (in horrid conditions -- the running game won that one. He was 8/25.) the Bears (27th), Minnesota (32nd), and a fading Dallas team with nothing to play for (13th). Not to mention he'd been in the system for 10-11 years!

JC is in one of those crappy situations that you'd really rather your QB not find themselves in.

To quote the Zen Master "we'll see..."

 

[kapolani]

I personally love the arguments in this thread, lots of riveting analysis based solely on conjecture. The truth is one one has any idea how the Commanders in general are going to be let alone how Campbell is going to play.

How's this for conjecture?

Riddle me this Batman...

Whenever the Skins called on JC to throw the ball for 20 times or more a game they are 0 - 12.

Whenever the game was on the line and he was required to win the game he either threw an interception or fumbled the ball.

Immediately after he got hurt and Collins was put in you went on a win streak...

My personal take is this: he's as smart as a rock. In College, where the big schools just outclass others in talent, athleticism can get you through. In the big leagues you have to adapt and make decisions much quicker.

He fails...

 

[Sonny#9]

How's this for conjecture?

Riddle me this Batman...

Whenever the Skins called on JC to throw the ball for 20 times or more a game they are 0 - 12.

Campbell 29 att, Skins beat Detroit
Campbell 21 att, Skins beat Miami
Campbell 25 att, Skins beat New York Jets

3 is more then 0. Care to make anything else up?

Whenever the game was on the line and he was required to win the game he either threw an interception or fumbled the ball.

Immediately after he got hurt and Collins was put in you went on a win streak...

Yeah -- take a look at what I posted above:

Here is my take on Collins. He's Billy Volek. A good back-up QB who can come in and play well -- but as a full-time starter he's questionable at best. People love to point out how much better he played then Campbell. But one, he had oodles more time to throw, for whatever reason (most likely Todd Wade wasn't playing any more!). Two, the level of competition -- he faced the Giants (in horrid conditions -- the running game won that one. He was 8/25.) the Bears (27th), Minnesota (32nd), and a fading Dallas team with nothing to play for (13th). Not to mention he'd been in the system for 10-11 years!

My personal take is this: he's as smart as a rock. In College, where the big schools just outclass others in talent, athleticism can get you through. In the big leagues you have to adapt and make decisions much quicker.

He fails...

Do you have some kind of evidence about his intelligence level? Or did you make this up too?

This is what I get for violating my "some people just need to be ignored" rule

 

[firehawk350]

Campbell 29 att, Skins beat Detroit
Campbell 21 att, Skins beat Miami
Campbell 25 att, Skins beat New York Jets

3 is more then 0. Care to make anything else up?



Yeah -- take a look at what I posted above:



Do you have some kind of evidence about his intelligence level? Or did you make this up too?

This is what I get for violating my "some people just need to be ignored" rule

I'm a fan of that rule. Though, they claim they "smacked you down" in that particular debate and you "ran away and ignored their points". As if I had an infinite amount of time to post on a message board.

 

[kapolani]

Oops.. Sorry..

I stand corrected.

It was actually 30 times a game.

When they relied on his arm he failed miserably...

"His first Wonderlic test score (14) was lower than you like from a player at the quarterback position"

 

[kapolani]

I started this thread because I found it interesting that there's a thread at extremeskins asking the same thing about Romo.

Another interesting thing to point out:

Has anyone noticed that the poster TR1, who purports to be a Skins fan, only posts threads about the Cowboys?

I find that extremely interesting. Is he obsessed with our team?

 

[theebs]

I started this thread because I found it interesting that there's a thread at extremeskins asking the same thing about Romo.

Another interesting thing to point out:

Has anyone noticed that the poster TR1, who purports to be a Skins fan, only posts threads about the Cowboys?

I find that extremely interesting. Is he obsessed with our team?

I dont know why anyone would care what anyone has to say from that site about romo. They have never given him credit for anything, I rarely check other teams boards but when I go to that one there is always a 100 page thread on how bad romo is and how he will never be good and will be figured out.

That is all they said last year along with most media outlets, romo this and romo that, yet the guy wins in spite of it all.

Now the new thing is yes he is a good qb but he cant win in the playoffs. Its ********, a one and a half year starter who takes the team to the playoffs both years but now the new knock is he can't win in the playoffs.

Again, I wouldnt be too worried about what that or most groups have to say about romos abilities.

 

[thewireman]

All good stats, although that 2003 Cowboys team was not a harbringer of things to come in Dallas. Look at your roster then and now

Point being, I am about to finish up my masters degree in a few weeks. The last time the Cowboys won a playoff game, I was in 9th grade

A big reason for that is Mr. Romo

We'll see how JC does this year. Essentially he is on a 2 year audition. I suspect if it isn't going to work out, Zorn will know pretty quickly. If he can't handle the offense, it will be evident sooner then later

Luckily there isn't a lot of money invested in him so the team can let him move on at that point then plot the next move

Right now though, I think I don't need to worry about the fact that I threw away my receipt on JC

Just curious, what grade were you in the last time the Skins won the Super bowl?

 

[Sonny#9]

Just curious, what grade were you in the last time the Skins won the Super bowl?

Oh good lord...

Are you so insecure about your current team that you need to live in 1995? Do you still thank Neil O'Donnell?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

bounce back from what? what will he be returning to? continued suckiness?

 

[theebs]

Oh good lord...

Are you so insecure about your current team that you need to live in 1995? Do you still thank Neil O'Donnell?

read what he quoted, it will make sense to you then.

then after you read what he quoted you can use that insecure line on one of your own faithful Commanders fans.

 

[Sonny#9]

read what he quoted, it will make sense to you then.

then after you read what he quoted you can use that insecure line on one of your own faithful Commanders fans.

The argument is pretty stupid either way. I laugh at the Cowboys losing 6 consecutive playoff games, but really, the Skins haven't fared much better.

 

[theebs]

The argument is pretty stupid either way. I laugh at the Cowboys losing 6 consecutive playoff games, but really, the Skins haven't fared much better.

of course it is. 90% of fans dont bring that crap up. Unfortunately the small group of fans that talk about past accomplishments always attach that stigma to the whole group of fans.

like your Commander buddy in this thread, making romos 0-2 in the playoffs the indicator that he isnt good and that what happened to the cowboys 8 years ago has anything to do with that.

Its ********. Especially when you look at what happens to teams that make the playoffs in the nfc, they usually disappear from the playoffs the next season. Seattle is the exception and Ny and Dallas have now made it in consecutive years, Three in ny's case and they won in that third time.


Its kind of funny how other teams fans always dogged Dallas fans when Dallas is losing by saying things like go watch the 92 season again blah blah blah and now they are the ones constantly talking about the past.

 

[Sonny#9]

of course it is. 90% of fans dont bring that crap up. Unfortunately the small group of fans that talk about past accomplishments always attach that stigma to the whole group of fans.

This is especially true at ES -- you know a troll when they bring up "5 Superbowls" and that's their only argument.

Its ********. Especially when you look at what happens to teams that make the playoffs in the nfc, they usually disappear from the playoffs the next season. Seattle is the exception and Ny and Dallas have now made it in consecutive years, Three in ny's case and they won in that third time.

Last I checked it was something like 50% turnover.

 

[Cowboys22]

Jason Campbell is a Quincy Carter clone. He hasn't done anything or shown anything more than Carter did in his first few years. In fact, Carter led a team with very little talent to a 10-6 record and the playoffs. Campbell hasn't even come close to that yet! He is no better than average and I don't really see anything that says he will ever be anything more.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ah yes -- didn't you say that about Brunell in 2005? Do you just recycle the same arguments? What's next LaRon Landry giving up the most TD's in the NFL? You still have that "secret password" to Stats LLC from your friend that "works in the AP"?

And look how Brunell performed after 2005. Not exactly stellar. After awhile teams catch up to you.

And yes, Sean Taylor still gave up the most TD's for safeties in 2006. There are others that have access to STATS Pass on this board that see the same thing. I know it hurts that you don't have contacts that can get you access that I can, but there's no need to be bitter about it.

A young QB relying on an all-pro TE to bail him out? You don't say!

Relying on a TE too much is generally not a good thing as unless they are Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez, there's only so much they are going to produce. And it wasn't until the Chargers got Chris Chambers and Vincent Jackson started to improve that Rivers' game stepped up.

You mean the line isn't going to play as well as when an elite left tackle is hurt?

Samuels is over 30 years old and is more likely to get hurt at this point and they don't have a replacement in line for him. Not to mention the rest of the starters on the O-Line are over 30 years old as well. It's more likely that the Commanders continue to have injured offensive linemen in 2008 which would obviously hurt Campbell's chances of "bouncing back."

But if he's not that good, and Collins is supposedly better, wouldn't that help the Commanders?

Collins is adjusting to a new system as well. And I wasn't all that impressed with Collins to begin with. He was horrid against the Giants. He played well against a Bears team that couldn't defend anybody in 2007. He played well against the Vikings that couldn't stop the pass in 2007. And he didn't look all that hot against the Cowboys, who were playing Alan Ball at corner and had clinched HFA. And then he looked lousy against the Seahawks.

I personally love the arguments in this thread, lots of riveting analysis based solely on conjecture. The truth is one one has any idea how the Commanders in general are going to be let alone how Campbell is going to play.

Well, duh.

That's why the post is about whether or not people think Campbell can come back. Kind of the point of having a message board. You don't have to have access to STATS Pass to understand that.

My point still is what is Campbell bouncing back from? A 77 QB rating? Usually you have to be good and then have some sort of downfall to "come back. And with the entire offense...not just Campbell...going to a new system and an aging O-Line, I think it's going to be difficult for Campbell to "bounce back."






YAKUZA