Can Jason Campbell bounce back?

[firehawk350]

Tony Romo...

How could I freaking forget that one??? I was sitting here thinking about all the lower tier players and I forgot the major one...

 

[Sonny#9]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1998845#post1998845

"I made a mistake by taking somebody's word for it and I still kept posting at ES after making the mistake." - Me

Like I thought -- completely ditched out on the thread on ES you were completely humiliated and owned on. That is why I have no respect for you or anything you post. You made a mistake by taking someone's word for some information -- so we are just supposed to take your word on stats no one else can see?

And please, when have I ever asked for a password, or anything else of that nature. Give me a break.

So having more receptions than Owens isn't relying on Witten when Owens has far more yards and TD's.

How about having more passes thrown his way?

Anybody who watched the Cowboys for even the briefest of moments could see the Romo relied on Owens to get the offense rolling, not Witten (outside of the Detroit game). Anybody who watched Campbell play could see Campbell look for Cooley on most of the passing plays.

You can spin it all you like, but it doesn't disprove Witten is Romo's security blanket. Like Cooley, he's more reliable then Owens as evidenced by15 more catches on 5 more passes. Owens, while a great receiver, does not have the greatest hands in the league. You still have failed to demonstrate that relying on a top TE is a bad thing for a young QB. (Except for Romo, it's ok when he does it!)

Cooley was Campbell's first option as shown by Cooley having only 22 yards less receiving and far more TD's than Washington's #1 WR.

Or it might be the fact that both Moss and El are under 5'10" (they're listed at 5"10" but if they are actually, that tall, I'm 6'5." I've stood next to Moss. I am 6'2" 220, I felt enormous next to him. About 6 in. taller.) Of the top 10 scoring receivers last year -- only 1 (Greg Jennings in GB) was under 6 ft. The fact that Moss was banged up and unreliable last year probably has nothing to do with it either. Or that neither Moss nor Randel El are a #1 receiver. But I am sure that is Campbell's fault.

I guess when you mean ignoring people you mean ignoring what they are saying and just making stuff up for them.

No, I usually ignore people who quote stats only they can see, and therefore allows them to manipulate, fabricate or otherwise spin to their own use. Or desert threads they are completely humiliated on.

 

[zrinkill]

Like I thought -- completely ditched out on the thread on ES you were completely humiliated and owned on. That is why I have no respect for you or anything you post.

No, I usually ignore people who quote stats only they can see, and therefore allows them to manipulate, fabricate or otherwise spin to their own use. Or desert threads they are completely humiliated on.

You mean like you did here?

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83444&page=13

That beating made you leave for 3 months.

:laugh2:

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I think this maybe the most thought out homer response I have ever gotten. So well-thought out, giving concessions and taking ground where you know you can, writing with good grammar and everything. Well done sir, all that and what you basically said was, the Cowboys rock (13-3 baby!), Skins aren't good and Campbell suckz!!!1!one11!

Either way, here's the best I can do with what you gave me... Excuse the quotation style, I don't feel like doing it any other way.

Well, it's not like the Skins have been tearing up the league over the years. That doesn't mean there's no talent on their roster, but it also doesn't mean they have a lot of superstars either.

No, we've got a solid cast of players with enough top-level talent to compete. Cooley, Moss (when he's healthy), Portis, Landry, Springs, Rocky, Fletcher, Carter are all guys who are among the better at their position. Sean Taylor was easily the best S in the league last year, but as we all know, that was cut short. The problem, like it is with you guys, is that we can't seem to get the production and talent to turn into a solid push in the playoffs. We've been there 2 out of the last 3 years and went as far as you guys have (that is, the divisional round).

Yes, I know the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in 10 years, but a 13-3 record does indicate some top notch quality play during the regular season which likely came from some top notch talent.

You guys had a great September/October, a solid November and horrible December/January. You had your share of luck, you've made your share of plays but you didn't face a lot of the issues the Skins faced this year. What if Ware was murdered, what if Colombo and Davis went out with an injury? How about Newman and Ellis? 9-7 given those circumstances were pretty damn solid I think. As far as top-notch talent, you've got some players, I'll admit that. Ware, Newman, Ellis, TO, Romo, Witten, Barber (though how he made it over Portis is beyond me) are all among the better at their positions. However, I don't think you are as solid and up and coming as reading on here would make you believe.

And it's tough to disparage Silverbear's remarks on Campbell given how he backed them up with stats showing why he's not impressed with him.

It's not nearly as tough as you'd think. Take for example Mark Bulger. He was on a lot of guys' top 5/10 QB list last year at the beginning of the season. After a rash of injuries to his OL, RB and poll around now to see what people think of him. Did he suddenly start sucking, or maybe circumstances conspired against him a bit? Campbell dealt with a lot, came out with an average QB rating and for a guy in his second year starting did pretty well. He has to improve his decision making and his deep accuracy but you'd be hard pressed to find people outside of the Cowboys fandom who think that Campbell sucks.

Stats could be shown that Romo was "figured out" given he threw something like 1 TD and 5 INTs in the last 4 games but that wouldn't be fair. Likewise, a 77 QB rating in his 2nd year starting and 30+ passes 0-10 stat is hardly indicative of a guy who will never be good. Maybe he threw so many passes because we were behind and he was trying to catch up? He threw 30+ passes in the Pats game where we lost 52-7, is that really indicative of him sucking or just the entire Skins team playing like crap? He threw 29 passes against the Eagles in week 2 and won. If he would have spiked the ball, he'd have broken that stupid stat. In week 3, he threw 34 passes but it was the lack of drive in two consecutive plays by Betts at the 1 that lost that game. Had Betts extended, again, we wouldn't be talking about this stat. He threw 34 passes against the Eagles again and posted a 114 QB rating, so I don't think he's to blame there either.

I'm not saying that Campbell is going to be awesome, but I think it's a bit early to say he sucks. Even below average is stretching the truth a bit. He was about average and given his experience, that's good.

While I agree that Dallas didn't have to go through someone getting murdered (Though I think trying to hang your hat on that as a reason for not being good or using it to make yourself feel better about an average season is pretty...blah), the fact is that Dallas DID have to go through stretches without Newman, without Henry, without Ellis.

Ellis missed the first 3 games of the season, entirely, and didn't start his first game till the 5th or 6th game (I honestly can't remember if he started the Buffalo game or not).

Newman didn't play the first two weeks, and didn't start his first game till the Buffalo game. He did play, pretty much, the entire game in week 4 against the Rams, but that was cause Henry went down. Then we went the next 4 games, I believe, without Henry in the line up and then he didn't start for a few more games.

So, yeah, we did face plenty of injury issues and Dallas found ways to win without some of their better defensive players. We also went the whole year without our #2 WR, then had Crayton miss the Jets game, and T.O. missed a game and a half at the end of the y ear (Of course we didn't need him in the final game since we didn't have to win that one) and we played from the second half of the second Philly game, through the end of the year, without our Pro Bowl center.

So injuries were certainly not unique to Washington or unique to what Campbell had to go through. Besides that (That being the murder thing) you're right Campbell and the Skins had the market cornered.

 

[Sonny#9]

While I agree that Dallas didn't have to go through someone getting murdered (Though I think trying to hang your hat on that as a reason for not being good or using it to make yourself feel better about an average season is pretty...blah), the fact is that Dallas DID have to go through stretches without Newman, without Henry, without Ellis.

The key word there is stretches...a few games here and there. Rogers missed half the season, Rocky half the season, Thomas all the season, Jansen all the season (which kind of worked out b/c I think they found a diamond in the rough in Heyer). At one point the Commanders had 6 starters on IR. Moss, EL, Smoot missed stretches. I won't discount the importance of Newman, Ellis (who surprised the s- out of me, to be honest) or Henry. But comparing their injuries to that of the Skins is really comparing apples and Oranges.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

The key word there is stretches...a few games here and there. Rogers missed half the season, Rocky half the season, Thomas all the season, Jansen all the season (which kind of worked out b/c I think they found a diamond in the rough in Heyer). At one point the Commanders had 6 starters on IR. Moss, EL, Smoot missed stretches. I won't discount the importance of Newman, Ellis (who surprised the s- out of me, to be honest) or Henry. But comparing their injuries to that of the Skins is really comparing apples and Oranges.

True, true. I won't disagree with you on that. Just pointing out that we all had to deal with key injuries, at bad times.

As for another question i saw earlier, where it was wondered if some Cowboy fan gives Commanders players any credit...Well I want to point out that I certainly do.

I'm a BIG fan of Portis. I love that guy. I think he's a damn fine back and would be THRILLED to have him on the Cowboys with Barber.

I'm also a very big fan of Cooley. I think he's a very good TE. I like Witten better, as an all around better TE, but I think Cooley is a darn good TE.

I loved Sean Taylor. I thought he was great, without a doubt.

I think Landry is going to turn out to be a very, very, very good safety in this league. I like him, a lot, and was actually quite upset that the Skins got him, to go with Taylor (RIP), leaving me to believe that we'd have to deal with that safety tandom for years to come.

I actually am a big fan of Springs as well. So I do, at the very least, while hating other NFC East teams, do give their players the credit they deserve.

 

[firehawk350]

While I agree that Dallas didn't have to go through someone getting murdered (Though I think trying to hang your hat on that as a reason for not being good or using it to make yourself feel better about an average season is pretty...blah), the fact is that Dallas DID have to go through stretches without Newman, without Henry, without Ellis.

Ellis missed the first 3 games of the season, entirely, and didn't start his first game till the 5th or 6th game (I honestly can't remember if he started the Buffalo game or not).

Newman didn't play the first two weeks, and didn't start his first game till the Buffalo game. He did play, pretty much, the entire game in week 4 against the Rams, but that was cause Henry went down. Then we went the next 4 games, I believe, without Henry in the line up and then he didn't start for a few more games.

So, yeah, we did face plenty of injury issues and Dallas found ways to win without some of their better defensive players. We also went the whole year without our #2 WR, then had Crayton miss the Jets game, and T.O. missed a game and a half at the end of the y ear (Of course we didn't need him in the final game since we didn't have to win that one) and we played from the second half of the second Philly game, through the end of the year, without our Pro Bowl center.

So injuries were certainly not unique to Washington or unique to what Campbell had to go through. Besides that (That being the murder thing) you're right Campbell and the Skins had the market cornered.

I'm not really sure how to respond here. What point are you trying to make anyways? That the Boys went through as much as the Skins?

 

[superpunk]

I'm not really sure how to respond here. What point are you trying to make anyways? That the Boys went through as much as the Skins?

That's exactly what he's saying. We had a thread about this before, and if you add it up, the Cowboys had just as many games missed by starters as the Commanders did.

 

[1fisher]

Thank GOD! And truth be told -- they weren't last year either. They haven't had a big offseason since the Lloyd/Archuletta/Duckett disaster

refresh my memory.... Did the skins sign any free agents last offseason? Weren't they too tight $$$ wise?

:laugh2:

 

[Sonny#9]

refresh my memory.... Did the skins sign any free agents last offseason? Weren't they too tight $$$ wise?

They had a good off-season last year with Smoot and Fletcher being the only two "big" signings. They also traded for Pete Kendall and signed some back-up role players that ended up contributing. But not much beyond that.

 

[superpunk]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107882&page=3&highlight=Springs

There's a nice thread. Read peplaw's posts.

The Skins lost starters for 64 total games.

The Cowboys lost starters for 62 total games.

And for the Skins, losing Jason Campbell was actually a GOOD thing. So maybe we shouldn't count the games he missed.

 

[firehawk350]

Really, how do you figure???

How do you define a game missed, would they have to miss the entire game or just not start?

If you had a thread about this, some linky goodness would be helpful.

 

[superpunk]

Really, how do you figure???

How do you define a game missed, would they have to miss the entire game or just not start?

If you had a thread about this, some linky goodness would be helpful.

The link is right there, captain.

Skinsmaniac provides the 64 games msised by Washington starters. Peplaw broke down the 62 games Cowboys starters missed.

Roughly the same numbers.

We won 13 games, you guys won 9.

Really goes to show how much more talented our team is than yours.

 

[Sonny#9]

The link is right there, captain.

Skinsmaniac provides the 64 games msised by Washington starters. Peplaw broke down the 62 games Cowboys starters missed.

Roughly the same numbers.

We won 13 games, you guys won 9.

Really goes to show how much more talented our team is than yours.

I think you have the wrong link there -- that thread didn't say anything about games missed.

 

[firehawk350]

*clicks on link yet again* *scans over it for peplaw post* Nope, nothing...

Let's try it this way *ctrl-f* peplaw... We've got a quoted post and that definitely doesn't break anything down. Try again, captain. I'm not searching that whole stupid thread to prove your point for you.

 

[superpunk]

*clicks on link yet again* *scans over it for peplaw post* Nope, nothing...

Let's try it this way *ctrl-f* peplaw... We've got a quoted post and that definitely doesn't break anything down. Try again, captain. I'm not searching that whole stupid thread to prove your point for you.

So you're lazy, and cannot read.

Read posts #81, and #108, genius.

 

[firehawk350]

So you're lazy, and cannot read.

Read posts #81, and #108, genius.

And that would explain why ctrl-f with peplaw's name in it doesn't show... how?

 

[superpunk]

And that would explain why ctrl-f with peplaw's name in it doesn't show... how?

I have no idea. Maybe you've got the AIDs. Maybe you're displaying less posts per page than I am. Whatever it is, I've given you the two posts that have the information in it, since that was far too difficult for you to read through and find on your own.

 

[firehawk350]

And that would explain why ctrl-f with peplaw's name in it doesn't show... how?

Wow, peplaw's post was so full of fail that I don't know where to begin. First off, you sign Tank with the understanding that he isn't going to play until week 8 and then cite the time that he missed as time missed. Hoyte beat out Anderson for the fullback position yet was cited there as well. Henry for 3+, are you kidding me? 3+, what kind of statistic is that? Ellis was a whining SOB who magically got better the second his contract was signed, I don't think that really counts. If Portis sat out and pouted about his contract, would you have counted it?

 

[firehawk350]

I have no idea. Maybe you've got the AIDs. Maybe you're displaying less posts per page than I am. Whatever it is, I've given you the two posts that have the information in it, since that was far too difficult for you to read through and find on your own.

So, you linking to the page on your personal settings and expecting me to read through all the pages figuring this and calling that evidence somehow jives in your mind? It isn't my job, when you are trying to prove a point, to show correct evidence.

You are alone in your point here, on a Cowboys board, does that show you anything.