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Redsz

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That is one reason, although there isn't a great difference between TOP for both teams. Dallas is #1 with 25:46 and Arizona is #6 with 28:01.

Both are the same type of safteys. Big guys who look to destroy someone on each play and are used in similar way by their defenses. But because Wilson is so athletic and a bit quicker for a guy his size (6-3 230) I would say he has a bit of an edge IMO.
 

Rack

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That is one reason, although there isn't a great difference between TOP for both teams. Dallas is #1 with 25:46 and Arizona is #6 with 28:01


Wow. There's 60 minutes in a football game but the team leading the NFL in TOP averages less then half that time.


Smart. Real smart.

And Wilson is nowhere near the safety that Roy Williams is. I consider it an insult that anyone (even a homer cardinals fan - surprised they even exist) would suggest such a thing.
 

Redsz

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The TOP is from NFL.com. If you have a problem with how they calculate it, then you best take it up with them.

And realistically, how many times have you watched Adrian Wilson play? Be honest, how many Cardinal games have you watched considering they have hardly appeared on national TV in the last 5 years?

Wilson is bigger and quicker and less of liability when covering one on one. I don't have to be a freakin' homer to suggest that I believe he is the better saftey.
 

silverbear

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CliffnMesquite said:
If the Cowboys underestimate the Cardinals. They will get their arses kicked.

Wow, you say that as if you're the first one to ever have such a thought...

Thank you, Captain Obvious... what's your next prediction, that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning??

Of course, there's a flip side to that one, one none of you defeatists never seems to mention-- if the Cowboys play their game, they should win the game...

That's because they're really the better team... as Parcells says, you are what you are, and the Cards are a 2-4 team...
 

Mansta54

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Redsz said:
The TOP is from NFL.com. If you have a problem with how they calculate it, then you best take it up with them.

And realistically, how many times have you watched Adrian Wilson play? Be honest, how many Cardinal games have you watched considering they have hardly appeared on national TV in the last 5 years?

Wilson is bigger and quicker and less of liability when covering one on one. I don't have to be a freakin' homer to suggest that I believe he is the better saftey.

Dude you must be CRAZY... Man pleeeeeeze!!!! He can't carry Roys jock, stop trippin.. Here's some numbers for ya, 5 Rings to your NONE... Don't ever compare nothing about the sorry azz Cardinals with the BOYZ. Players, coaches, and down to the waterboy, those bums don't measure up..PERIOD!!!!!!
 

silverbear

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Redsz said:
That is one reason, although there isn't a great difference between TOP for both teams. Dallas is #1 with 25:46 and Arizona is #6 with 28:01.

Actually, a 2:15 advantage in time of possession is pretty big in the NFL...

As for the endless "Adrian Wilson is better than Roy Williams" and "Sean Taylor is better than Roy Williams" debates, WHO GIVES A RAT'S PATOOTIE??

You don't get awarded Super Bowl trophies for having the best safety in the game, last time I checked... I'm quite happy with Roy Williams playing for my favorite team, and if Cards fans like their record and Adrian Wilson better, well, they're welcome to him...
 

Mansta54

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Redsz said:
The TOP is from NFL.com. If you have a problem with how they calculate it, then you best take it up with them.

And realistically, how many times have you watched Adrian Wilson play? Be honest, how many Cardinal games have you watched considering they have hardly appeared on national TV in the last 5 years?

Wilson is bigger and quicker and less of liability when covering one on one. I don't have to be a freakin' homer to suggest that I believe he is the better saftey.

Who is Adrian Wilson anyway???? Maaaan, roll out with that silly noise.. Adrian Wilson better then Roy,hahahahhaha. You're killin me over here!!! What a joke!!!
 

Redsz

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silverbear said:
Actually, a 2:15 advantage in time of possession is pretty big in the NFL...

It can be in a close game. But as I said before, in the context of #1 vs #6, I don't think it is a huge difference.

As for the endless "Adrian Wilson is better than Roy Williams" and "Sean Taylor is better than Roy Williams" debates, WHO GIVES A RAT'S PATOOTIE??

You don't get awarded Super Bowl trophies for having the best safety in the game, last time I checked... I'm quite happy with Roy Williams playing for my favorite team, and if Cards fans like their record and Adrian Wilson better, well, they're welcome to him...

The thread was about comparing Williams to Wilson. So it's not like I'm some troll who crawled out of a hole and posted ' ADRIAN WILSON is da man. he will kill da Cowboys on Sun. Woot!11111111'.

I love the spin on the record though. Nice work. :)
 

idiotec777

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Let's be honest, Roy does make coverage errors. However, Roy has and continues to play in a better defensive unit, therefore limiting his tackles. Especially with the likes of Dat and Co.
 

david_jackson

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If you wanted to compare the two on tackles perhaps you could look at what % of the teams tackles are made by each... That would at least take into account TOP. Even that is flawed though since if your front seven do a better job againt the run then the safety will get less opportunities to tackle
 

CanadianCowboysFan

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Does that guy aholecentral still post on Cardinal boards? I remember him starting a thread once where he said he would decide if each Cowboy fan was a bandwagoner.
 

Rack

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Redsz said:
The TOP is from NFL.com. If you have a problem with how they calculate it, then you best take it up with them.


Regardless of what is stated at NFL.com, an intelligent person (or at least a person with common sense) would know that the team leading the NFL in TOP would HAVE to average more then 30 minutes TOP per game.

So an intelligent person should of seen the 25:46 time listed and known that the #1 team in TOP couldn't possibly be averaging only 25:46 per game.


Not to mention you also posted that the Cards average 28:01 per game and were rated #6 in TOP. Why would they be ranked BEHIND the cowboys in TOP if those numbers were accurate? An intelligent person wouldn't of just copied numbers and made a statement. An intelligent person would of realized those numbers couldn't possibly be accurate and would of done more research before making a post. An intelligent person would of made sure he/she posted the correct information.

But then again, you also posted that Adrian Wilson is better then Roy Williams. If you can't get that right I shouldn't expect you to get anything else right.


By the way, Roy Williams was listed (and played) FS last year. So him and AW (who I think is pretty good) didn't even play the same position last year.
 

silverbear

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Rack said:
Regardless of what is stated at NFL.com, an intelligent person (or at least a person with common sense) would know that the team leading the NFL in TOP would HAVE to average more then 30 minutes TOP per game.

So an intelligent person should of seen the 25:46 time listed and known that the #1 team in TOP couldn't possibly be averaging only 25:46 per game.

Rack, I'm pretty sure he's talking about defensive time of possession allowed, in which case the lower the number, the better... what we have heah... is failure... to COMMUNICATE...

:eek:
 

Rack

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silverbear said:
Rack, I'm pretty sure he's talking about defensive time of possession allowed, in which case the lower the number, the better... what we have heah... is failure... to COMMUNICATE...

:eek:


Nope. He posted it plain as day. He has a failure to use his head. I know exactly what those stats meant, but he sure as hell didn't.
 

Redsz

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Rack said:
Regardless of what is stated at NFL.com, an intelligent person (or at least a person with common sense) would know that the team leading the NFL in TOP would HAVE to average more then 30 minutes TOP per game.

So an intelligent person should of seen the 25:46 time listed and known that the #1 team in TOP couldn't possibly be averaging only 25:46 per game.

The of TOP is calculated by NFL statistics. Instead of throwing out a tirade about my intelligence maybe you should contact them in an effort to understand the formula they use to calculate it?

Not to mention you also posted that the Cards average 28:01 per game and were rated #6 in TOP. Why would they be ranked BEHIND the cowboys in TOP if those numbers were accurate?

Because the quicker the defense is off the field the better.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4&_1:col_1=15

The Dallas defense is on the field the least in the NFL.

Which is relevant when your talking about such a deceptive stat as tackles. Because, obviously, the longer you are on the field the more tackles have to be made.

An intelligent person wouldn't of just copied numbers and made a statement. An intelligent person would of realized those numbers couldn't possibly be accurate and would of done more research before making a post. An intelligent person would of made sure he/she posted the correct information.

Right, so the numbers provided by NFL statistics aren't accurate? :rolleyes:

Again, if you have a problem with how they calculate the TOP, contact NFL statistics.

But then again, you also posted that Adrian Wilson is better then Roy Williams. If you can't get that right I shouldn't expect you to get anything else right.

You still haven't given me any reasons to why Wilson isn't a better saftey.

Instead of being so rightious with your opinion, maybe you could share with us mere mortals what makes my opinion so crazy?

By the way, Roy Williams was listed (and played) FS last year. So him and AW (who I think is pretty good) didn't even play the same position last year.

That doesn't matter when your talking about covering and pursuit angles (which are Williams two biggest problems). When a player blows and assignment, he blows and assignment, whether he is at FS or SS.

The role of SS and FS in the Cardinals defense is virtually the same. Both play up in the box alot. And both cover alot.

So odds are, what Williams was doing at FS for the Cowboys wasn't exactly unique and something Wilson hasn't done before.
 

Rack

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What does TIME OF POSSESSION have to do with the defense?


Time of possession isn't a measure of how long a defense is on the field, it's a measure of how long an offense is on the field (how long the offense POSSESSES the football).

Again, an intelligent person would of known right away that the #1 team in T.O.P. couldn't possibly average less then 30 minutes TOP per game.


Which is relevant when your talking about such a deceptive stat as tackles. Because, obviously, the longer you are on the field the more tackles have to be made.


Which makes the fact that Wilson has more tackles then Roy completely irrelevant, being that he's on the field more then ROy, of course he's gonna have more opportunities then Roy.


Right, so the numbers provided by NFL statistics aren't accurate?


You have a severe lack of common sense.

If NFL.com says the Cowboys are leading the NFL in TOP at 25 minutes a game, YES THEY'RE WRONG. Use your head (or try to). If they really were averaging 25 minutes a game then that means their opponent is averaging 35 minutes a game. If their opponent is averaging more TOP per game, then how could the cowboys possibly be LEADING in that category?

Try and figure it out. It's basic math. Addition and subtraction... I'm sure even a Cards fan can handle that.


You still haven't given me any reasons to why Wilson isn't a better saftey.


You haven't given a legitimate reason that Wilson is better then Roy.


Instead of being so rightious with your opinion, maybe you could share with us mere mortals what makes my opinion so crazy?


Again, you haven't even given a reason that Wilson is better then Roy. So until you do, ****.


That doesn't matter when your talking about covering and pursuit angles (which are Williams two biggest problems).


This sentence proves you have no idea *** you're talking about regarding Roy. I don't know where all this "Roy can't cover" crap comes from, but it simply isn't true.

And the pursuit angles, where the F are you getting this crap? lol


When a player blows and assignment, he blows and assignment, whether he is at FS or SS.

So now Roy blows his assignments? Please, name an assignment he has blown. Have fun with that.


So odds are, what Williams was doing at FS for the Cowboys wasn't exactly unique and something Wilson hasn't done before.


Did you even watch Roy last year? Due to having no pass rush and a revolving door at RCB, Roy had to play deep about 95% of the time. Funny how when the cowboys needed to help a struggling corner they use a player that "Struggles in coverage" to fill that role. Roy is at his best when playing close to the line, but that does NOT mean he struggles in coverage. Just cuz coverage is not his strongest assest, doesn't mean he's poor at it.

But I guess the world you live in is black and white. It's either/or in your world, huh?
 

kmd24

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Rack said:
You have a severe lack of common sense.

If NFL.com says the Cowboys are leading the NFL in TOP at 25 minutes a game, YES THEY'RE WRONG. Use your head (or try to). If they really were averaging 25 minutes a game then that means their opponent is averaging 35 minutes a game. If their opponent is averaging more TOP per game, then how could the cowboys possibly be LEADING in that category?

Defensive sortables

You are simply arguing semantics.

The more relevant stat is plays, and the Cowboys have played 404 defensive snaps (7 games) to the Cards 357 (6 games).

Regardless, tackles are a pretty poor statfor comparing the relative value of two players since they are highly dependent upon scheme and the quality of the rest of the defense.
 

Rack

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A defense can't have a "Time of Possession".


"Time of Possession" is how long a team POSSESSES the football. I don't see how that's so difficult to understand.
 

SuspectCorner

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Rack said:
A defense can't have a "Time of Possession".


"Time of Possession" is how long a team POSSESSES the football. I don't see how that's so difficult to understand.
the stats given appear to relate to OPPONENTS AVG. TIME OF POSSESSION - as the discussion clearly centered around defense. let's not elevate hair-splitting to an artform.
 

kmd24

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Rack said:
A defense can't have a "Time of Possession".


"Time of Possession" is how long a team POSSESSES the football. I don't see how that's so difficult to understand.

A turnover is something an offense does. The defense doesn't possess the football, so how can it have a turnover stat?

to-may-to, to-mah-to
 
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