CB Emmanuel Forbes

[Jumbo075]

Witherspoon is likely a top 10 pick at 181 pounds.

Where would Forbes be ranked if he weighed the same as Spoon?

Would he be top 3 with Spoon and Gonzales?

@AsthmaField @Cowboyny

Prospect​	Height​	Weight​	40-Yd​	10-YD​	Arms​	Hands​	Wing​	Age​
Emmanuel Forbes​	6’1”​	170​	4.35​	1.49​	32-1/4​	8-1/2​	79​	22.29​
Devon Witherspoon​	5’11-1/2”​	181​	4.43​	1.58​	31-1/4​	8-7/8​	73-5/8​	22.38​

Forbes would be my target for the Cowboys, but I'd prefer a small trade back to pick him.

 

[AsthmaField]

Forbes would be my target for the Cowboys, but I'd prefer a small trade back to pick him.

Mocks have him going earlier and earlier. I don’t think you could trade back and be assured you could get him.

I’ve seen mocks having him taken by New England at 14 and earlier this week Forbes said that he went to Foxboro and spent the whole day with Belichick and the patriots. He said he watched a lot of film with Bill.

I’ve also seen him mocked a lot to the Giants at 25. That is a very possible outcome. If the WR’s are picked over, they’re probably going CB in the first.

There is real interest in Forbes by teams in the first round. If he got to 26 and Dallas wanted him, they’d need to pull the trigger there, IMO. I don’t think you could trade back and get him.

Heck, I’ve seem mocks with Philly taking him at 30, if they don’t use the 10th pick on a DB.

 

[xwalker]

This goes for Witherspoon too…but can someone show me a list of the good starting outside CB’s that weigh even under 190? It’s not a long list…not saying it’s the end all be all, but it’s definitely not ideal

No it’s definitely not ideal. I know there is concern about teams running at them, and the teams will know better than us how much it will hurt in the run game.

But I don’t expect it to matter much in coverage. Forbes and Witherspoon (especially Witherspoon) are both aggressive guys who use their length well. Forbes in particular gives receivers real issues with those ridiculously long arms.

So really, I don’t have many questions about them in coverage, but I’m not sure how they will respond to teams running at them. I do know that both guys will definitely hit you. Neither one of them shies away from contact. They aren’t scared of it… which is a big thing. Not all guys are like that.

As far as comps for them… really, I haven’t seen a bunch of long, thin guys even coming out of college. It isn’t like a bunch have tried and failed because of weight. Most lighter college cornerbacks aren’t just light… they’re short too, which is a complete different thing than Forbes and Spoon. Those guys likely failed because of lack of length… not because of their weight.

So really, there aren’t a lot of comps because college football just isn’t producing guys with this kind of length who are thin.

I know that Nashon Wright is long and thin. He isn’t in the same universe as far as coverage skills as these two, but he hasn’t had a lot of problems in the run game. The problem he’s had is that he keeps letting receivers catch the ball. Forbes and Spoon don’t have that problem.

Also, Sauce Gardner is pretty long and thin. He measured at the combine at 6-3, 189 pounds. That is two inches taller than Forbes and about 3 inches taller than Witherspoon. From that, you can tell that Witherspoon is a little bit thicker than Sauce, and Forbes is built pretty close to Gardner.

Obviously, Gardner is the best rookie CB in years, so he was a resounding success, despite being rail thin.

I don’t have a crystal ball, so I don’t know… but I’m pretty sure that both Forbes and Witherspoon will not only succeed in the NFL, but will thrive. Their coverage is just so good. Forbes has a ridiculous arm length, just like Gardner. That gives WR’s real problems, as Sauce showed last year. Forbes and Spoon just give receivers fits when they’re trying to catch the ball.

The tidbits that I hear On the NFL Network about Forbes and Witherspoon are generally that the teams, scouts and GM’s love both of these guys, and that both will go in round 1 (with Spoon the 1st CB taken). Yesterday, I saw a segment on “5 guys who are going to be drafted earlier than you think”, and the first guy they talked about was Forbes.

Now, that doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed for sure… but it does mean that teams really like them and that their lack of weight isn’t very much of a worry for teams.

Last thing I’ll say:

Rick Spielman, most recently the GM of the Vikings was asked about Forbes and if his weight bothered him, and he said not at all. He said that what you have a corner for is to keep the receiver from catching the ball, and Forbes is great at that. He said, “All I know is that you point to a receiver and tell Forbes, ‘don’t let that guy catch the ball’ and he doesn’t.”

Like I said, I don’t think teams are as worried about their weight as much as fans and media are.

I’ve come to grips with their weight, speaking for myself, and I’d love to get the chance to let either one play and learn the game from Diggs and Gilmore while they put on a little more weight. I think they will be very good. Neither one of them makes it easy to catch a ball in their neighborhood.

As Asthma said, it's a bit different that Forbes is 6-1 and not 5-9.

He has the 2nd largest wingspan of the top 8 CBs on Brugler's list. Porter is the largest of those 8. A large wingspan likely means that his "frame" is not below average.

His body fat percentage must be really low.

At one point in High School I was 5-11, 165 with a 3.8 body fat percentage. The guy doing the test said that was a marathon runner type percentage.

Forbes was 6-1, 166 at the combine. I have to think his body fat percentage must be down in that same range. If true, it seems likely that he should be able to gain weight.

Nahahon Wright was 183 when drafted. He said during the 2022 training camp that he was up to 200. That's 17 pounds in 1.5 years.

If Forbes was 5-9 then I would be more concerned. I just have a hard time seeing a healthy 6-1 man maintain his weight at 166 or 170 even if he tried.

The following are just off the top of my head. I assume research would yield some other CBs in the sub 190 range, especially their draft weight.

Darrell Green
NFL Listing 5-9, 184
College 5-8, 170

Pacman 5-10, 187 (combine)

Tyrann Mathieu 5-9, 186 (combine)
CB in college. Hybrid CB/Safety in the NFL

 

[xwalker]

Mocks have him going earlier and earlier. I don’t think you could trade back and be assured you could get him.

I’ve seen mocks having him taken by New England at 14 and earlier this week Forbes said that he went to Foxboro and spent the whole day with Belichick and the patriots. He said he watched a lot of film with Bill.

I’ve also seen him mocked a lot to the Giants at 25. That is a very possible outcome. If the WR’s are picked over, they’re probably going CB in the first.

There is real interest in Forbes by teams in the first round. If he got to 26 and Dallas wanted him, they’d need to pull the trigger there, IMO. I don’t think you could trade back and get him.

Heck, I’ve seem mocks with Philly taking him at 30, if they don’t use the 10th pick on a DB.

I think a trade back would be difficult anyway. A team has to really want a player that the Cowboys don't want to draft for themselves.

 

[xwalker]

Forbes would be my target for the Cowboys, but I'd prefer a small trade back to pick him.

@AsthmaField

My gut feeling is that 1 player that has a 1st round grade on the Cowboys board will make it to #26. If true, then the decision is basically made for them. I don't see them passing on a player with a 1st round grade unless it's a QB.

Needs?
RB Now. Need to limit carries for Pollard.
WR Cooks or Gallup gone in 2024.
TE They played all 4 in games last year.
OL Tyron gone in 2024. Tyler back to LT.
DT Now. Gallimore terrible. Hankins old.
DE How much longer for DLaw?
LB LVE on a 1 year deal. Clark unproven.
Safety Hooker & Kearse FAs in 2024.
CB Gilmore FA in 2024.

 

[cnuball21]

He already was over 170 at his pro day, think he could add 10 pounds of muscle. I remember how Newman looked in yr 2

Yup, Working with professional athlete nutritionist and quality weight training program and he’ll be just fine.

 

[Malhavoc]

Yeah, I have little doubt that he’ll go in the first.

I think teams like Forbes a lot more than fans and media.

I’ve been seeing more mocks with him going to the Giants one pick in front of Dallas. I certainly hope that doesn’t come to pass.

I don’t see Forbes as quite the player that you do, but he is a talent and certainly worthy of the pick.

 

[Cowboyny]

Yup, Working with professional athlete nutritionist and quality weight training program and he’ll be just fine.

If he could get up to 180-185 that would be optimal, but that might be a big ask for his frame.

 

[AsthmaField]

I don’t see Forbes as quite the player that you do, but he is a talent and certainly worthy of the pick.

Yeah, I get excited about these guys who have natural ball skills.

Maybe I’m over stating it on Forbes… but he has things you just can’t coach.

 

[fivetwos]

I think a trade back would be difficult anyway. A team has to really want a player that the Cowboys don't want to draft for themselves.

I can actually see someone wanting to deal into the 26 range for Hooker, so they secure the 5th year option on him and afford to allow him to sit, maybe for two seasons.

Jerry won’t be pulling the trigger on a QB at 26.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I can actually see someone wanting to deal into the 26 range for Hooker, so they secure the 5th year option on him and afford to allow him to sit, maybe for two seasons.

Jerry won’t be pulling the trigger on a QB at 26.

If a guy they want is there at 26 they wont do it unless they are sure they can get them. They passed on a trade down last year because they would lose Smith. They traded down in 2021 because they knew they could get Parsons

 

[fivetwos]

If a guy they want is there at 26 they wont do it unless they are sure they can get them. They passed on a trade down last year because they would lose Smith. They traded down in 2021 because they knew they could get Parsons

Oh no doubt.

In the end I figure someone to slip that they actually had a first round grade on….or so they will claim lol.

I’m kinda hoping for one of the top interior OL, so a small trade down could potentially work, but need a dance partner.

 

[Zekeats]

This goes for Witherspoon too…but can someone show me a list of the good starting outside CB’s that weigh even under 190? It’s not a long list…not saying it’s the end all be all, but it’s definitely not ideal

Forbes got Marcus Peters written all over him and he might even be better. That's not a bad pick at all at any point in the draft.

 

[cnuball21]

If he could get up to 180-185 that would be optimal, but that might be a big ask for his frame.

I don’t think so at 6’1.

It’s all going to come down to him…how bad he wants it and how dedicated he is. The blueprint to do it if pretty easy…it’s the discipline that’s the hard part.

 

[Cowboyny]

I don’t think so at 6’1.

It’s all going to come down to him…how bad he wants it and how dedicated he is. The blueprint to do it if pretty easy…it’s the discipline that’s the hard part.

Wish I had the problem, but some struggle putting on weight and keeping it

 

[Spottswoode]

I don’t think so at 6’1.

It’s all going to come down to him…how bad he wants it and how dedicated he is. The blueprint to do it if pretty easy…it’s the discipline that’s the hard part.

People who don’t have that body type have no appreciation of how hard it is to put on weight. I looked exactly like him in college (6’2, 165). The biggest I have ever been is 175 with minimal cardio and could maintain 170ish with heavy cardio and I had a world class bodybuilder working with me. 35 years later, I’m still a less fit 6’2, 165. It will be tough for Forbes to maintain 180 during the season without pharma help. Maybe he can but there is a big difference between desire and ability for that body type.

 

[Malhavoc]

People who don’t have that body type have no appreciation of how hard it is to put on weight. I looked exactly like him in college (6’2, 165). The biggest I have ever been is 175 with minimal cardio and could maintain 170ish with heavy cardio and I had a world class bodybuilder working with me. 35 years later, I’m still a less fit 6’2, 165. It will be tough for Forbes to maintain 180 during the season without pharma help. Maybe he can but there is a big difference between desire and ability for that body type.

I am the same way. I’m 53 and never weighed more than a 175 lbs. And I was good athlete that tried everything and had a trainer. If Forbes can maintain 170 lbs of good weight that‘s about as good as it might get. His weight is what it is.

 

[baltcowboy]

No it’s definitely not ideal. I know there is concern about teams running at them, and the teams will know better than us how much it will hurt in the run game.

But I don’t expect it to matter much in coverage. Forbes and Witherspoon (especially Witherspoon) are both aggressive guys who use their length well. Forbes in particular gives receivers real issues with those ridiculously long arms.

So really, I don’t have many questions about them in coverage, but I’m not sure how they will respond to teams running at them. I do know that both guys will definitely hit you. Neither one of them shies away from contact. They aren’t scared of it… which is a big thing. Not all guys are like that.

As far as comps for them… really, I haven’t seen a bunch of long, thin guys even coming out of college. It isn’t like a bunch have tried and failed because of weight. Most lighter college cornerbacks aren’t just light… they’re short too, which is a complete different thing than Forbes and Spoon. Those guys likely failed because of lack of length… not because of their weight.

So really, there aren’t a lot of comps because college football just isn’t producing guys with this kind of length who are thin.

I know that Nashon Wright is long and thin. He isn’t in the same universe as far as coverage skills as these two, but he hasn’t had a lot of problems in the run game. The problem he’s had is that he keeps letting receivers catch the ball. Forbes and Spoon don’t have that problem.

Also, Sauce Gardner is pretty long and thin. He measured at the combine at 6-3, 189 pounds. That is two inches taller than Forbes and about 3 inches taller than Witherspoon. From that, you can tell that Witherspoon is a little bit thicker than Sauce, and Forbes is built pretty close to Gardner.

Obviously, Gardner is the best rookie CB in years, so he was a resounding success, despite being rail thin.

I don’t have a crystal ball, so I don’t know… but I’m pretty sure that both Forbes and Witherspoon will not only succeed in the NFL, but will thrive. Their coverage is just so good. Forbes has a ridiculous arm length, just like Gardner. That gives WR’s real problems, as Sauce showed last year. Forbes and Spoon just give receivers fits when they’re trying to catch the ball.

The tidbits that I hear On the NFL Network about Forbes and Witherspoon are generally that the teams, scouts and GM’s love both of these guys, and that both will go in round 1 (with Spoon the 1st CB taken). Yesterday, I saw a segment on “5 guys who are going to be drafted earlier than you think”, and the first guy they talked about was Forbes.

Now, that doesn’t mean that they’ll succeed for sure… but it does mean that teams really like them and that their lack of weight isn’t very much of a worry for teams.

Last thing I’ll say:

Rick Spielman, most recently the GM of the Vikings was asked about Forbes and if his weight bothered him, and he said not at all. He said that what you have a corner for is to keep the receiver from catching the ball, and Forbes is great at that. He said, “All I know is that you point to a receiver and tell Forbes, ‘don’t let that guy catch the ball’ and he doesn’t.”

Like I said, I don’t think teams are as worried about their weight as much as fans and media are.

I’ve come to grips with their weight, speaking for myself, and I’d love to get the chance to let either one play and learn the game from Diggs and Gilmore while they put on a little more weight. I think they will be very good. Neither one of them makes it easy to catch a ball in their neighborhood.

Witherspoon to Detroit is the most likely lock in this draft unless they take Carter at 6 and Forbes at 20. Detroit is really going to be good next season.

 

[cnuball21]

People who don’t have that body type have no appreciation of how hard it is to put on weight. I looked exactly like him in college (6’2, 165). The biggest I have ever been is 175 with minimal cardio and could maintain 170ish with heavy cardio and I had a world class bodybuilder working with me. 35 years later, I’m still a less fit 6’2, 165. It will be tough for Forbes to maintain 180 during the season without pharma help. Maybe he can but there is a big difference between desire and ability for that body type.

Agree. I was a hardgainer during / after college too.

Weighed about 165 heading into college once I understood what kind of diet it took and proper weight training. Got up to about 180 from soph to jr year. And that was on a college budget…

 

[AsthmaField]

Witherspoon to Detroit is the most likely lock in this draft unless they take Carter at 6 and Forbes at 20. Detroit is really going to be good next season.

Yeah, I’ve been saying that all offseason. If there ever was a Dan Campbell type player… Witherspoon is it.

I can’t imagine they pass him up. They’ll love Spoon.

Heck, it wouldn’t surprise me if they traded Okudah just so they’d have a need to draft Witherspoon.

It upsets me to see him going to another team.