Changing the chemistry and attitude is happening, kudos to coaching/ management

28 Joker

28 Joker
Messages
7,878
Reaction score
1
I'm loving me some Jerry Jones! :bow:

He's kicking the right butts out the door, and he's hitting homeruns.

Youth is being served. The overrated players or malcontents or both are getting their butts kicked out the door. Players like Anthony Henry can't take playing time away from a young, super talented player like Mike Jenkins. Jenkins showed his mettle in the Tampa Bay game and showed he was ready to start. He did a good job on Plaxico Buress in New York, too. Jenkins took Buress all over the field. (3-34-0; pick 6)


1-800-SEEYA
 

Silverstar

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,945
Reaction score
3,070
Judas;2784099 said:
Wade - Been coaching before half the board was born - Never won anything

No arguement on Wade's 0-4 playoff record as a HC. However, were those 3 earlier playoff teams really his teams, or did he inherit them like Dallas?


Jerry - Hasn't done anything since Jimmy and his players left town.

Truth is, Jimmy wanted to leave town and he didn't fare as well in Miami 2 years later, winning 2 wildcard games in 4 seasons. If Jimmy is "the man", why couldn't he get back to the SB in his favorite city, with a HOF QB like Marino at the helm?

Jimmy had 4 seasons to get it done there and it's not like Marino was too old, because Shanahan won back to back with a 37 yr old Elway in Denver. Yeah, Jimmy is "the man" as long as Jerry is signing his checks I guess. Also, Jimmy got help from some of Landry's players while coaching in Dallas. The 92' SB team for example, still had 12 players from the 1988 team and 6 were starters, if you count Martin as a returner. These 12 guys played a big part on offense, defense and ST's in 1992....obviously.

Michael Irvin
Kelvin Martin
Mark Tuinei
Kevin Gogan
Nate Newton
Jim Jeffcoat
Danny Noonan
Chad Hennings
Ken Norton
Bill Bates
Robert Williams
Mike Saxon

Romo- Had a dominant 14 months.

Compared to our other starters at QB like Carter, Wright, Stoerner, Hutchinson, Leaf, Testaverde, Bledsoe, Henson before etc. I think Romo has been exceptional over the 40 games he's started so far.

Williams- put up solid numbers on a team where someone has to catch the ball

Coming off a Pro Bowl year in 2006, the Lions draft WR Calvin Johnson in 2007 and then trade Williams to us in the middle of the 2008 season, where not only does he have to learn a new playbook fast, but share catches with a future HOF in Owens and the NFL's best TE in Witten. Until Kitna came in 2006, Williams had to catch passes from Joey Harrington, who isn't even playing anymore. I don't see how anyone can blame Williams for only getting 100 catches and 7 TD's in the last 2 years. Quick fact...Williams has 30 TD's in 70 games, Michael Irvin had 29 in his first 70 games. :)
 

Bleu Star

Bye Felicia!
Messages
33,925
Reaction score
19,920
Good post Larry. I can't find anything in there to disagree with. However, I still have questions regarding the leadership we have at the HC, OC, & DC positions.Time will surely tell the story.
 
Messages
1,658
Reaction score
0
mmohican29;2783529 said:
well said Larry. I think this thing can come together a lot faster than people think. If Ellis is jettisoned, I will have ONE remaining worry.

Roy Williams, WR. Something about his attitude does not remind of a champion... if he tanks this season, I bet he gets an early retirement as a Cowboy despite his salary and contract.

One remaining worry...me too...COACHING.
 

Angus

Active Member
Messages
5,097
Reaction score
20
jimmy40;2784047 said:
You mean the attitude that he works hard, wants to win and spent his whole life dreaming of playing for the Cowboys? That attitude? Or is it the fact that he questions why Cowboys fans hate on him when all he wants to do is work hard, win and play for the Dallas Cowboys?
Being a Longhorn homer and a Roy E fan I try to stay out of the Roy threads the best I can but some of the things you guys come up with is just freaking stupid.

No. It was his whining attitude in following Owens lead complaining about the throws he was getting and Romo's friendship with Witten. That makes me wonder if he isn't Owens Jr.

:)
 

JoeyBones31

New Member
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
Team chemistry is not something that can be manufactured, you need to obtain team chemistry over a period of time, earning trust in one another, from the front office down through the coaching staff and on to the players.

Our team has much to learn about that chemistry, just by subtracting the supposed problem players doesn't give you instant chemistry.

It's a good start , by removing those who had problems buying into the team concept, but it's a work in progress to get this talented team in the right frame of mind before the season.
 

LarryCanadian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
382
Chemistry is an interesting thing. While I agree you can't manufacture it per se, watching this team over last few seasons, you could certainly see cliques that were emerging.

The problem as I see it is that even during Parcells final year, this team lacked leadership. In fact, Parcells likes to draft and pick up his guys, but the ones that area available are solid, dependable, quiet, "yes" men, a lot of the time (the real bigtime leaders stay on their respective teams usually, or you get one in twilight of career ala Richie Anderson, etc).

So what I saw happen was a team with a huge vacuum in leadership pick up Pac Man, Tank, and a few others. They had TO who is HUGELY charismatic, and is a double edged sword, because he does push and teach the younger players etc, but then pulls stunts that truly divide a team and divide players/coaching also. So these guys became leaders while Romo was growing, and trying to keep everyone happy, and while Garrett was learning the OC, and Phillips was running around saying "mistakes are on me" (sorry, but you are treating what amounts to rich "kids" like men, which is a strategic error at times).

You are not really giving the right chemistry the chance to develop when outsiders waltz in and dictate the persona of the team rather than the other way around.

This to me was also the major failing of the Ellis's and Roy Williams, etc. These guys were the holdovers, but they couldn't get it done, and their attitudes and personalities were dwarfed by the newcomers.

It is time for Felix, Ware, Romo, Witten, Columbo, Newman, etc to put their mark on this team.

The chemistry or whatever you want to call it was weak last year. Plain and simple, when punched in the mouth, even mighty TO was reduced to a finger pointing, pouting, backstabbing baby. Sorry, he's a huge talent and genetic freak, but he's a double edged sword, and when the chips were down, you don't want him in your foxhole with you. Tank disappeared. You aren't sure Roy Williams even wants to play the game. Pac Man isn't mature enough to save his career, by staying off the sauce and out of trouble.

Watch the games, go back and read about the guys making the speeches, it is the guys on the list. Those that are being culled. I didn't believe they were gonna do it, but they sure are lowering the axe, and frequently. Almost every guy that underachieved or spouted off in the wrong way is getting whacked! Jerry might not have been saying it, or showing it, but someone was PO'd!

TO
Pac Man
Tank
Roy Williams

now, maybe Ellis
That is pretty gutsy, especially when you KNOW the media is gonna have a field day (let alone your old players) cutting you to pieces for doing it.

It is pretty funny to read the concerns of Troy, Emmitt, Michael et all (Sanders is a breed of his own, and could of -would of today - been a cancer in Dallas maybe IF the team wasn't as strong already when he joined). The triplets had those X factors beyond their special playing ability. Irvin wanted to win so bad, and while flamboyant he wasn't a "me" guy or really a pouter. He'd get cheesed off, but he would rather win. Aikman was a serious leader, and knew the role he had to play. He was the straight man, the guy that was a little aloof, and he commanded the team (Romo remains one of the guys, and it might be tough for him to lead the same way). Emmitt was a warrior, who led by example, even if quiet,. But its funny they don't even see the TO's, Pac Man's etc as missing the ingredients that they themselves have/had. It is interesting to watch.

It was bad last year. Going from weeping "that's my quarterback" to pointing fingers, and snitches, and meetings, etc. They weren't scaring anyone!

LarryCanadian
 

JoeyBones31

New Member
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
LarryCanadian;2785031 said:
Chemistry is an interesting thing. While I agree you can't manufacture it per se, watching this team over last few seasons, you could certainly see cliques that were emerging.

The problem as I see it is that even during Parcells final year, this team lacked leadership. In fact, Parcells likes to draft and pick up his guys, but the ones that area available are solid, dependable, quiet, "yes" men, a lot of the time (the real bigtime leaders stay on their respective teams usually, or you get one in twilight of career ala Richie Anderson, etc).

So what I saw happen was a team with a huge vacuum in leadership pick up Pac Man, Tank, and a few others. They had TO who is HUGELY charismatic, and is a double edged sword, because he does push and teach the younger players etc, but then pulls stunts that truly divide a team and divide players/coaching also. So these guys became leaders while Romo was growing, and trying to keep everyone happy, and while Garrett was learning the OC, and Phillips was running around saying "mistakes are on me" (sorry, but you are treating what amounts to rich "kids" like men, which is a strategic error at times).

You are not really giving the right chemistry the chance to develop when outsiders waltz in and dictate the persona of the team rather than the other way around.

This to me was also the major failing of the Ellis's and Roy Williams, etc. These guys were the holdovers, but they couldn't get it done, and their attitudes and personalities were dwarfed by the newcomers.

It is time for Felix, Ware, Romo, Witten, Columbo, Newman, etc to put their mark on this team.

The chemistry or whatever you want to call it was weak last year. Plain and simple, when punched in the mouth, even mighty TO was reduced to a finger pointing, pouting, backstabbing baby. Sorry, he's a huge talent and genetic freak, but he's a double edged sword, and when the chips were down, you don't want him in your foxhole with you. Tank disappeared. You aren't sure Roy Williams even wants to play the game. Pac Man isn't mature enough to save his career, by staying off the sauce and out of trouble.

Watch the games, go back and read about the guys making the speeches, it is the guys on the list. Those that are being culled. I didn't believe they were gonna do it, but they sure are lowering the axe, and frequently. Almost every guy that underachieved or spouted off in the wrong way is getting whacked! Jerry might not have been saying it, or showing it, but someone was PO'd!

TO
Pac Man
Tank
Roy Williams

now, maybe Ellis
That is pretty gutsy, especially when you KNOW the media is gonna have a field day (let alone your old players) cutting you to pieces for doing it.

It is pretty funny to read the concerns of Troy, Emmitt, Michael et all (Sanders is a breed of his own, and could of -would of today - been a cancer in Dallas maybe IF the team wasn't as strong already when he joined). The triplets had those X factors beyond their special playing ability. Irvin wanted to win so bad, and while flamboyant he wasn't a "me" guy or really a pouter. He'd get cheesed off, but he would rather win. Aikman was a serious leader, and knew the role he had to play. He was the straight man, the guy that was a little aloof, and he commanded the team (Romo remains one of the guys, and it might be tough for him to lead the same way). Emmitt was a warrior, who led by example, even if quiet,. But its funny they don't even see the TO's, Pac Man's etc as missing the ingredients that they themselves have/had. It is interesting to watch.

It was bad last year. Going from weeping "that's my quarterback" to pointing fingers, and snitches, and meetings, etc. They weren't scaring anyone!

LarryCanadian


Pretty good analogy Larry, I like others do feel that by releasing those "problem children" was a huge step in the right direction, and I understand where your coming from in regards to leadership.

I've been a Cowboy fan since 1962, so I've seen leaders, men who take charge, who lead by example, like Aikman, Emmitt, Bob Lilly, Roger Staubach etc. Go I can go on and on of the number of great players that took this team under their wings so to speak, and did lead by example, in the meetings, film sessions, and the practice field.

Preparation in practice and all the team meetings and so on, are where your team gains that chemistry, the leadership, by veterans who have been with an organization for a few years and have some special ties to it.

We have plenty of capable guys who fit that role, but it seems they don't want to step up and take on the responsibility of being the leader. Others who have had the opportunity to lead this team embraced the challenge, and made sure they were there for their teammates and for the team.

I just don't see anyone that seems to want that role right now, I was hoping it was Romo, but he seems more into his personal life, his golf game, his girlfriend, and that's fine, but somewhere, someone has to realize it won't work without the effort of everyone and step up to the plate and be the leader. I just don't see anyone in the foreseeable future being that guy.

Let's all hope they "get it" before it's too late ..... again.
 

Ren

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,218
Reaction score
1,944
I'll wait until i see it on the field before i say it's happening
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
Let me see if I understand this correctly.

Per quite a few people on this board, things like leadership, chemistry and attitude were overrated. Jerry Jones himself also stated this.

Yet now when he addresses these overrated and irrelevant things, he deserves kudos?

I have to admire the amount of twisted rationalization that goes into this type of thought process.
 

notherbob

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,886
Reaction score
28
Ren;2785226 said:
I'll wait until i see it on the field before i say it's happening

Me, too. I have become so accustomed to the Cowboys bragging all season long just to fail miserably in the playoffs on those few occasions when parity allowed them to make the playoffs, that I have come to expect such things.

I'll believe they have changed when I see them stop tooting their own horn and start winning some meaningful games when the season is on the line - something they haven't done for the last 14 years. :mad:

I no longer get emotionally worked up over the Cowboys but I always enjoy watching the games, win, lose or quit (as in any December, especially last December). Since I have become emotionally bankrupt, I no longer care who wins the games, I just want to see someboby play good football - anybody, it no longer matters who. :eek::

No, I'm not the least bit depressed, I have simply chosen to accept things I cannot do anything about and I refuse to become emotionally upset over things other people do in spite of my preferences to the contrary. :eek:

I'm apparently a recovering footballaholic - I used to be a Cowboysaholic but the team's ludicrous performances the last 14 years has allowed me to change that. I'm not against the Cowboys, I just don't care anymore whether they win or not, it's not my problem. :eek::

I am still interested but from an almost totally detached perspective. :) I love the game of football but the Cowboys aren't the only team or players out there.

I am nobody and my opinion means nothing but they are still going to have to show me they are worth caring anything about.
 

LarryCanadian

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
382
Alexander, I hear your point, because Jerry has been talking out of the side of his mouth trying to down play issues from last season, but I don't remember him saying Leadership and Chemistry were overrated. I did think there have been a few posts and news articles about that stuff, and even Mickey Spagnolo I think states that "chemistry" stuff is overrated, but I don't remember Jones saying that directly.

Jones did say that the problems in lockerroom were exaggerated or the reports were overblown, but he defended the teams chemistry and that is where I think Jones is feeding the fans a load of horse manure to some extent.

I think the management/coaching knows (and they have been getting this input from all over the league) that there is a chemistry and leadership issue on this team. They are trying to do something about it.

As others have posted, we need to see the results on the field, and until others step up to do a better job than the guys many of us fans are criticising (and I'm for sure one of them), the team will not get better. Posters are right about that too. Need to see it on the field, but the excuses are being removed and the finger pointers, doubters, pouters and verbal spouters are being shown the door. It is time for others to grow and prove themselves now, that is true.

LarryCanadian
 
Top