Charles Haley? Really?

[Sarge]

. I think we owe him a lot because we probably wouldn't have won three rings without him.
.

...this (although you can take out the "probably").

.

 

[nathanlt]

If Harvey Martin were already in the RoH, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this. Because he isn't, I think this is bordering on an atrocity.

Excellent point! Before we start inducting borderline psychotic, shades of mercenary players, let's make sure all the legends have made it too.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

I'm a bit surprised by the response to Haley's induction. I remember that era like it was yesterday. (Man, where does the time go?) Haley, in my mind, was up there with the triplets in terms of his importance to those teams. I loved him fiercely as a player and I'm ecstatic that he's been honored for his vital contributions to that dynasty.

Are there players (say, Harvey Martin) that also deserve to be there? Sure. But I'm not going to allow that to take anything away from Haley's accomplishment. He's there because he deserves to be there. Not a doubt in my mind.

 

[PlayMaker88]

I don't have a problem with Haley being in the ROH, but I do think Martin should have gone in first. I also believe Pearson should have gone in before Irvin.

 

[ologan]

From Wikipedia:

"Drafted out of West Virginia University by the Chicago Bears in the first round of the 1958 NFL Draft, Howley played for the Bears for two seasons before retiring after what appeared to be a career-ending knee injury he sustained during the 1959 training camp in Rensselaer, Indiana. When he decided to make a comeback in 1961 following a West Virginia alumni game, the Bears traded his rights to the Dallas Cowboys for a 2nd-round, along with 9th-round draft choice in the 1963 NFL Draft."

I guess since Chuck Howley was drafted BEFORE the Cowboys were even the Cowboys,he shouldn't have played for the Bears because it may ruin his chance to be in a ROH for a team that didn't even exist yet. He joined the Cowboys the same year I became a fan,so he's always been a Cowboy to me,and a damn good one.
Charles Haley....Not so much!

 

[Manster54]

You're right that he is the only non native Cowboy in the Ring. However I think he meant more to us than he did to the 49ers.

He wasn't a mercenary free agent. We traded for him. A trade has always meant a little bit more to me than a free agent for some reason.

He was with the 9ers for 4 years full time, from 86-91. He was with us for 5, from 91-96. The thing is, he originally retired as a Cowboy. But he came back to the 9ers to help in the post season in 1998.

I think, in his heart, he's probably a Cowboy. I know many Cowboys talk about him as if he's a Cowboy. And I know a lot of them credit him as being the person responsible for showing the Cowboys how to be champions. The media talks about him as a Cowboy. And any time highlights are shown, it's him as a Cowboy.

When we first saw DeMarcus wearing 94, we compared him to Haley, as a Cowboy, wearing 94. We think of him as a Cowboy the majority of the time, except, it seems, when this situation comes up and people have something against Jerry.

He's a unique situation, yes. However he was always a unique individual. I think we owe him a lot because we probably wouldn't have won three rings without him.

EDIT: Correction on the above. Chuck Howley was drafted by the Bears and played two seasons for them before he became a Cowboy. He's in the Ring.

NICE analysis. I think the ROH should be exclusive but it is up the owner too much. I agree w/Bob Lilly (in his book) that the former players should have a say in the decision as well. Jones did try to correct the inequity in the early 2000's, bringing in Captain Crash and crew.

I can't speak to the 1960's Cowboys because I did not live through that era. I agree Harvey Martin is an obvious choice and I also think Too Tall. My controversial choice would be Danny White. He was an excellent QB, just couldn't get past some tough competition in the NFC championships. I held it against him for many years, but after seeing Steve Pelleur, Hogeboom, Quincy Chad, Drew, and company changed me.

 

[Plumfool]

"Ring of honor" should go to players who've made significant contributions to the organization. Not just because the player played his entire or the majority of his career with the Cowboys. I believe Haley embodies that. No Haley no super bowls.

Although I agree that Harvey Martin belongs in the "The Ring", however the fact that is Jerry didn't have anything to do with him. So it's a case where Jerry might have to be reminded or someone needs to make a push for Martin.

 

[gbrittain]

I think of it this way. Would you be ok with trading for Patrick Willis with the knowledge that he would help deliver three Super Bowls, but would end up in the ROH?

I would sign in blood today and if you have any sense you would too.

That is exactly what Charles Haley did except in this case we did not KNOW in advance he would help deliver three Super Bowl wins, but he did and therefore the ROH is ok by me.

 

[DFWJC]

That means Sanders is also in consideration....has to be now.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

That means Sanders is also in consideration....has to be now.

Nope. Haley was a key component of all three Superbowl winning teams. The same can't be said for Sanders.

 

[cowfan]

Charles was a great Cowboy. He belongs in the Ring of Honor, but he also belongs in the Hall of Fame. Haley was one of the most dominant defensive players during his career.

 

[DFWJC]

Nope. Haley was a key component of all three Superbowl winning teams. The same can't be said for Sanders.

That's true.

But they were both here the same amount of time and Sanders is a rare 1st ballot HOFer and is considered one of (if not THE) best at his positon in history. Sanders was All Pro 4 seasons as a Cowboy, Haley made it once. Haley was on three SB champs while Sanders came in after Jimmy had left and we were beginning to decline...so he got one.

I'm not touting him for the ROH, just saying that if Haley get's it then Sanders is eqaully worthy.

As always, some will let their personal feelings towards Sanders cloud their judgement.

To each his won, I guess. JMO

 

[Chocolate Lab]

All of these "honors' bestowed upon past players revolve greatly around politics, fan draw and the personal preferences of those in charge, no sense in getting worked up about the logic of it all, there is none.

I will say this for Charles, for whatever reason I consider him to be more of a Cowboy than Deoin,,, and they're both nut-jobs!

 

[ravidubey]

I think he did because he felt bad about Charles getting snubbed by the Hall of Fame for no reason.

I get this impression as well but it is still insulting to Too Tall Jones and Harvey Martin, each of whom are also deserving of NFL HOF honors.

 

[jumanji]

I have no problem with Haley...it's odd but not so much that I blow a gasket. I do think Martin should be in there also but schramm had plenty of time to induct Martin. That's not on Jerry

 

[The Quest for Six]

Hey, I will be the first to admit that Charles put us over the the top and I am a BIG Charles Haley fan. But the ROH????

Man, I hate to say it, because I like Jerry Jones, but he dropped the ball here. Charles should not be in the ROH. Hell, he would not even admit that he was half Cowboys and half 49er's. Additionally, he said how much the 49er's organization and Bill Walsh meant to him during an interview after the announcement .

To his credit, he did say that he did not become to appreciate the game until he came to the Cowboys, but that's not enough. I thought we were keeping this exclusive. I don't know why, but this just doesn't feel right. Man, Jerry really messed up on this one. JMO.

Please give me reasons to change my mind.

I agree, i dont see Haley as a cowboy at all, he's a 49er first and foremost..

If anything, Harvey martin should be in the ROH, not Haley

And dont get me started on Deion Sanders, if he's put in the ROH, and I think Jerry will, the the ROH will become a joke!

The ROH isn't for guys that spent 4 or 5 yers in a cowboy uniform, its for guys that spent the brunt of their career here and made a huge impact on the team and the game.

 

[visionary]

I get this impression as well but it is still insulting to Too Tall Jones and Harvey Martin, each of whom are also deserving of NFL HOF honors.

i would be fine with them getting in but that is not an argument against haley

now deion, i might have a problem with

 

[SWG9]

Nope. Haley was a key component of all three Superbowl winning teams. The same can't be said for Sanders.

I disagree. We never would have won in 1995 with the Larry Brown/Clayton Holmes combo at CB.

But that said, I personally don't believe that Sanders or Haley should be in.

From the 90's era (IMHO), the inductees should have been Irvin, Smith, Aikman, Allen, Woodson, and Jimmy Johnson. Six guys and that's it, with Jerry being the 7th whenever the time comes.

The ROH is the equivalent of retiring a number; retiring the number of players who played five years or less with the franchise kind of cheapens it, IMHO.

 

[BAT]

You're right that he is the only non native Cowboy in the Ring. However I think he meant more to us than he did to the 49ers.

He wasn't a mercenary free agent. We traded for him. A trade has always meant a little bit more to me than a free agent for some reason.

He was with the 9ers for 4 years full time, from 86-91. He was with us for 5, from 91-96. The thing is, he originally retired as a Cowboy. But he came back to the 9ers to help in the post season in 1998.

I think, in his heart, he's probably a Cowboy. I know many Cowboys talk about him as if he's a Cowboy. And I know a lot of them credit him as being the person responsible for showing the Cowboys how to be champions. The media talks about him as a Cowboy. And any time highlights are shown, it's him as a Cowboy.

When we first saw DeMarcus wearing 94, we compared him to Haley, as a Cowboy, wearing 94. We think of him as a Cowboy the majority of the time, except, it seems, when this situation comes up and people have something against Jerry.

He's a unique situation, yes. However he was always a unique individual. I think we owe him a lot because we probably wouldn't have won three rings without him.

EDIT: Correction on the above. Chuck Howley was drafted by the Bears and played two seasons for them before he became a Cowboy. He's in the Ring.

Great point. There are only TWO Dallas Cowboys legacy numbers active right now.

Jerry gives out 88 to the next great WR and 94 to the next great pass rusher. Jerry does not do this with other ROH numbers.

There is no real legacy for 12, 22 (it is coincidence that both Emmitt and Bullet wore it), 33, 8, 74 (Mr. Cowboy no less), 20, 55 or even 54 (Howley's & the Manster's - may have been during Landry's time but not now).

When a player creates a frikkin legacy for a team, then by Landry and God Almighty, the guy deserves to be recognized as one of the best players for that team and induction into their ROH is without question.

The fans can cry foul all they want but its not like this came out of left field. Many Cowboys, not just Jerry, have praised Haley and his contribution to the legacy of the Cowboys - awarding up and coming young talent the opportunity to wear Haley's number and bringing in the original 94 to help him (Ware) achieve his potential. This has been going on for YEARS people. The whinier fans just refused to see it, and continue to do so.

 

[Sarge]

I agree, i dont see Haley as a cowboy at all, he's a 49er first and foremost..

If anything, Harvey martin should be in the ROH, not Haley

And dont get me started on Deion Sanders, if he's put in the ROH, and I think Jerry will, the the ROH will become a joke!

The ROH isn't for guys that spent 4 or 5 yers in a cowboy uniform, its for guys that spent the brunt of their career here and made a huge impact on the team and the game.

FWIW - were it not for Charles Haley, you're name would be "The Quest For Three"