Chip Kelly's domination of Monte Kiffin - by the numbers

[texbumthelife]

This is such a stupid, overplayed waste of consideration.

It's about players, and USC is WAY low on NFL talent these days, while Oregon is stocked.

Kiffin was trying to help out his idiot son.

Aren't we talking about College though? USC had plenty of highly rated talent during the years Monte was there. They still pulled very good classes even with the reduction in scholarships. Meanwhile, the offensive players that were there in Oregon the same years, haven't faired much better in the pros than the defensive players USC had. So that argument really doesn't take.

That said, it is an interesting point to make but doesn't necessarily translate to NFL football where Monte and the scheme have proven success. This is absolutely something to watch though. It will be the talk of the town when we play the Eagles and the Skins.

 

[jordan4vols]

It has been mentioned but needs repeating...the biggest difference is the speed of the lineman and the linebackers in the NFL. I remember a story about Reggie Bush who we all know torched college defenses...in his rookie year he tried to break a run to the outside and was chased down by the outside linebacker...Baltimore I believe...the linebacker got up and simply said you can't do that in this league.

Kiffin did struggle with Oregon, but as stated before so did most everyone. When Oregon played Auburn however in the championship game they were held to what 17 points? The speed of the SEC and teams like Oklahoma and Texas are always noted when playing other conferences, especially the speed of the d lineman and linebackers. Chip Kelly has met with Bill Bellicheck and they have instituted some of his philosophies in New England, but Philly does not have Tom Brady under center. When you have a DE in Demarcus Ware who has chased down a Michael Vick before I am not worried about Chip Kelly's offense. There is a reason RGIII was successful for only part of the season before suffering injury. Just cant do it in the NFL. Too much talent at every position.

 

[texbumthelife]

It has been mentioned but needs repeating...the biggest difference is the speed of the lineman and the linebackers in the NFL. I remember a story about Reggie Bush who we all know torched college defenses...in his rookie year he tried to break a run to the outside and was chased down by the outside linebacker...Baltimore I believe...the linebacker got up and simply said you can't do that in this league.

Kiffin did struggle with Oregon, but as stated before so did most everyone. When Oregon played Auburn however in the championship game they were held to what 17 points? The speed of the SEC and teams like Oklahoma and Texas are always noted when playing other conferences, especially the speed of the d lineman and linebackers. Chip Kelly has met with Bill Bellicheck and they have instituted some of his philosophies in New England, but Philly does not have Tom Brady under center. When you have a DE in Demarcus Ware who has chased down a Michael Vick before I am not worried about Chip Kelly's offense. There is a reason RGIII was successful for only part of the season before suffering injury. Just cant do it in the NFL. Too much talent at every position.

RGIII was successful with it until the point he couldn't even stand. He took too much abuse, but that is more because of his own tendencies, than that of the system. He even made Demarcus Ware look absolutely silly more than once. Granted, Ware was injured and saddled with a little more responsibility than he will have now, but the fact remains. Kaep rode it to the Superbowl. Russel Wilson ran the Seahawks deep into the playoffs. Newton used the read-option to destroy NFL defenses in the redzone his rookie year.

It is a legitimate cause for concern, but not one that extends solely to Kiffin, but every defensive coordinator. If anything, he may have a greater advantage figuring out how to stop it since he has seen it so much. Anyway, with Chip Kelly taking up shop in our own division, it's definitely something to watch. And a valid topic for discussion.

 

[gbrittain]

Here is what I think about Chip's domination:

Pro impact to date = Nothing, zilch, nada

Here is what I think about Monte Kiffin:

Pro impact to date = Top 10 defense 12 out of 13 years with Tampa Bay. In playoffs during Super Bowl with Tampa, his defense allowed 33 points total and his defense scored 28 points.

 

[erod]

Aren't we talking about College though? USC had plenty of highly rated talent during the years Monte was there. They still pulled very good classes even with the reduction in scholarships. Meanwhile, the offensive players that were there in Oregon the same years, haven't faired much better in the pros than the defensive players USC had. So that argument really doesn't take.

That said, it is an interesting point to make but doesn't necessarily translate to NFL football where Monte and the scheme have proven success. This is absolutely something to watch though. It will be the talk of the town when we play the Eagles and the Skins.

USC has struggled in recruiting under Lane Kiffen, especially defensively. And college players in general aren't good at stopping the Oregon style offense with their talent level.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Half the arguments in this thread sound exactly like what was said last year in claiming RG3 would never be any good in the pros.

 

[Seven]

While I didn't read the thread................thank God.

 

[ConstantReboot]

RGIII was successful with it until the point he couldn't even stand. He took too much abuse, but that is more because of his own tendencies, than that of the system. He even made Demarcus Ware look absolutely silly more than once. Granted, Ware was injured and saddled with a little more responsibility than he will have now, but the fact remains. Kaep rode it to the Superbowl. Russel Wilson ran the Seahawks deep into the playoffs. Newton used the read-option to destroy NFL defenses in the redzone his rookie year.

It is a legitimate cause for concern, but not one that extends solely to Kiffin, but every defensive coordinator. If anything, he may have a greater advantage figuring out how to stop it since he has seen it so much. Anyway, with Chip Kelly taking up shop in our own division, it's definitely something to watch. And a valid topic for discussion.

He wasn't successful with it when they played the Steelers. RGIII was healthy then.

If Ware went straight for RGIII each and every play instead of reading the play which froze him, I bet things would be different. This is how the Steelers played the Skins. They had someone key in on on RGIII and not bite on the RB.

 

[Frozen700]

I did the math and came up with the totals over three games from 2010 - 2012 -- truly staggering for a once-proud Trojan defense. I go into further detail here, if you'd like a short read:

http://titletownnews.org/2013/07/30...n-by-the-numbers-a-staggering-50-ppg-601-ypg/

Oh...

Are you proud?

 

[speedkilz88]

He wasn't successful with it when they played the Steelers. RGIII was healthy then.

If Ware went straight for RGIII each and every play instead of reading the play which froze him, I bet things would be different. This is how the Steelers played the Skins. They had someone key in on on RGIII and not bite on the RB.

He was playing with one arm and had other injuries. That was the real problem.

 

[texbumthelife]

If Ware went straight for RGIII each and every play instead of reading the play which froze him, I bet things would be different. This is how the Steelers played the Skins. They had someone key in on on RGIII and not bite on the RB.

So, essentially, "if Ware had played RGIII well, he would have played him well"? It was the system, the design of the play that froze Ware, an All-Pro and first ballot HOF. This is very similar to the system and delay/read-option runs that Chip Kelly uses. That's the whole point. I am not saying they will be effective just because RGIII was, but I am saying the evidence is there that is has been and could be again.

Just to make another example, Chip Kelly uses a lot of the same delay, cut-back runs that McCoy murdered us on. Just food for thought.

 

[maxdallasfan]

Talent wins you games in college.

Talent wins you games in the NFL.

Besides McCoy and Alligator Arms Jackson, where is the talent on their offense?

Foles isn't a runner.

Barkley can't throw an out pattern.

Vick can't read a defense.

IMO, Potato Chip is only cashing in and buying time until he can go back to college. Of course he made the jump when sanctions were coming. It would of hurt his stock to stay. He cashed in when his stock was at its highest.

Guaranteed hell be back in college in 2015.

 

[AsthmaField]

I'm guessing the OP is an Eagles fan, but I could be wrong... he could just as easily be a Skins or Giants fan.

Amazing how much they obsess over Dallas, really.

 

[OhSnap]

Theres a big hump the eagles have to get over. Head coaches with NO NFL EXPERIENCE dont have a good track record. Of the ones that have been hired only 2 have had major success and they were J.Johnson and B. Switzer. Other than those 2 coaches they all came up short mostly way short with whatever offense they were running. Chip Kelly has no NFL experience. Heres the list of coaches he's joining.

http://www.footballperspective.com/please-comment-first-team-nfl-hcs-with-no-prior-nfl-experience/

 

[Proximo]

Theres a big hump the eagles have to get over. Head coaches with NO NFL EXPERIENCE dont have a good track record. Of the ones that have been hired only 2 have had major success and they were J.Johnson and B. Switzer. Other than those 2 coaches they all came up short mostly way short with whatever offense they were running. Chip Kelly has no NFL experience. Heres the list of coaches he's joining.

http://www.footballperspective.com/please-comment-first-team-nfl-hcs-with-no-prior-nfl-experience/

That is indeed quite the hump for Chip to get over.

I'm not saying this just because I'm a Cowboys fan, but I don't expect the Eagles to win more than 6 games this year. They just lost what's supposed to be their most complete receiver, they have a bunch of mediocre QB's, a defense that's been lacking ever since Johnson passed away, and a college coach with no NFL experience who sort of relies on a gimmick/novelty offense.

As far as Monte vs Chip goes I couldn't care less what happened in the college ranks between the 2. We'll see what happens when they meet this season in an NFL game.

On a side note - compared to the last few seasons I really think this year is setting up nicely for the Cowboys to win the division. The Eagles shouldn't be a threat for reasons already stated, the Commanders have a star QB coming back from major knee surgery, and haven't really improved since last year due to the cap penalties and lack of draft picks. The Giants could be the biggest threat out of our 3 rivals, however they looked extremely poor at the end of last year and have some aging starters, plus I'm not seeing what huge improvements they've made in the offseason either. This is Garrett's chance to come into his own and take over the East.

 

[OhSnap]

That is indeed quite the hump for Chip to get over.

I'm not saying this just because I'm a Cowboys fan, but I don't expect the Eagles to win more than 6 games this year. They just lost what's supposed to be their most complete receiver, they have a bunch of mediocre QB's, a defense that's been lacking ever since Johnson passed away, and a college coach with no NFL experience who sort of relies on a gimmick/novelty offense.

As far as Monte vs Chip goes I couldn't care less what happened in the college ranks between the 2. We'll see what happens when they meet this season in an NFL game.

On a side note - compared to the last few seasons I really think this year is setting up nicely for the Cowboys to win the division. The Eagles shouldn't be a threat for reasons already stated, the Commanders have a star QB coming back from major knee surgery, and haven't really improved since last year due to the cap penalties and lack of draft picks. The Giants could be the biggest threat out of our 3 rivals, however they looked extremely poor at the end of last year and have some aging starters, plus I'm not seeing what huge improvements they've made in the offseason either. This is Garrett's chance to come into his own and take over the East.

The eagles are taking a huge gamble. One that only Jerry Jones has beat. Kelly is taking over a bad roster and by the time he get's the kind of people he wants to play his style any edge he has from doin somethin new will be gone. I worry more about Coughlin and Shanahan because they can get more wins than they should but it's time to get what injuries robbed this team of last year.

 

[ConstantReboot]

So, essentially, "if Ware had played RGIII well, he would have played him well"? It was the system, the design of the play that froze Ware, an All-Pro and first ballot HOF. This is very similar to the system and delay/read-option runs that Chip Kelly uses. That's the whole point. I am not saying they will be effective just because RGIII was, but I am saying the evidence is there that is has been and could be again.

Just to make another example, Chip Kelly uses a lot of the same delay, cut-back runs that McCoy murdered us on. Just food for thought.

What I'm saying is that if Ware went straight for RG3 rather than stop, read and react to the play, things might have been different.

I watched the Ravens play the Niners and they went after their QB in this fashion. There was no read and react - just get to the QB. However, its predicated on our ability to stop the run.

 

[ConstantReboot]

He was playing with one arm and had other injuries. That was the real problem.

So your saying the injuries didn't count when we played the Skins in that last game? Yet RG3 was legit and thats why they lost?

Funny that you say that. From watching that game I didn't know his injuries started in October. Thought it was December.

 

[burmafrd]

So your saying the injuries didn't count when we played the Skins in that last game? Yet RG3 was legit and thats why they lost?

Funny that you say that. From watching that game I didn't know his injuries started in October. Thought it was December.

if you were a fan you would know he was injured virtually the entire season; by mid season he was at best 80%

 

[texbumthelife]

What I'm saying is that if Ware went straight for RG3 rather than stop, read and react to the play, things might have been different.

I watched the Ravens play the Niners and they went after their QB in this fashion. There was no read and react - just get to the QB. However, its predicated on our ability to stop the run.

But he didn't do that. A HOF defender got abused time and time again. Had he taken RGIII every play, RGIII would have handed the ball off. That's how the play is designed.