Chris Johnson Support Thread

[Bizwah]

Ray Rice is clearly the better option.

I agree.

Better overall player.

 

[Bizwah]

that, or he just likes to bounce runs outside, trying to get the home-run hit

it's not uncommon for fast college players to try to break runs outside, to get around the corner, look at what BP was trying to hammer into our backs, that running east-west is a good bet to lose yards, and I wouldn't call Marion soft, alot of his runs are him trying to bounce it outside between the T and G, earlier in his career, it was tring to get outside the T

This still doesn't explain why his coaches were contemplating moving him to receiver. HIS COACHES were the ones bothered. If they were bothered, then I think we need to be.

No one has ever questioned MBIII's toughness. Even in college you would see him break tackles and take on defenders. Again.....I haven't seen anything of CJ except for him outrunning everyone....Which isn't a bad thing. But he won't do that a bunch in the NFL. You have to make people miss. I haven't seen that from him. Nor have I seen a clip of him breaking a tackle or stiff-arming a defender.

hopefully our team isn't dumb enough to take Marion Barber out of that role

Hopefully you're right....If Barber goes down, then what? Can you sit there and tell me that Johnson will get the first? If so, then he may be our guy. I'm not looking for a compliment to Barber. I'm looking for someone that can spell him if needed and replace him if necessary.

sometimes you're just not going to find that in rookie backs, Tiki Barber and Bryan Westbrook weren't big on getting yards after contact earlier in their careers, but they learned how to do be acceptable at it, and most of Westbrook's runs aren't him breaking tackles

I disagree. The great backs...the good ones even...have always been able to make the defender miss. You mention Barber and Westbrook....No, they never were going to run over guys, but they could ALWAYS make guys miss. Guys like Jones-Drew and Bush could outrun guys, but they also can make players miss.

Can CJ do this? Again, he may be able to....but I haven't seen it. Admittedly, I didn't watch much of him. If we draft him, I hope

the thing about CJ is is that he has a compact build, being 5'10" 200 w/ a good muscle build, that's good for being able to bounce off hits, and if he can learn how to position his body to do that more effectively, I think he'll be alright

Maybe....But can he learn toughness? I go back to his coaches wanting to move him to WR. Now, I read that his coaches were impressed with him this season. He seemed committed to running inside. But is this something he can maintain?

improving his vision, which comes w/ experience also will help him in that facet

Most of the time, either a RB has vision....or he doesn't. I've not seen many RBs come into the league and "develop" vision. That's why a RB doesn't need groomed. Most of the time RBs can come right in and play.

you also shouldn't be afraid of it

Where did I say I was afraid of speed? I merely pointed out that so many guys look at a forty time and say, "Sheesh....do you see his forty time?....We gotta draft the guy!"

Forty times are important in the fact that they help separate players. If you have two RBs rated evenly and one runs a 4.6 and the other runs a 4.4, then you take the 4.4 guy.

But so many Couch Scouts ignore vision, size, production, and go solely on forty times. Now, CJ's stats are impressive, so he must be doing something right......or did this year.

I think you mean that there are more pure runners than Chris, but he's up there in terms of talent

Sure he's up there. I wouldn't throw a fit if we took him. I have enough faith in our scouts. I know I'm not very good at evaluating players, or I'd have a job as a scout.

For his sake, and ours if we draft him, I hope he turns out to be a stud.

 

[Letemburn]

Only RB i want to see Dallas with a first round pick is Rashard Mendenhall. I also dont think id be too sad if we ended up with Jonathan Stewart. He could also be something. I just think Mendenhall will be a great back inthe NFL.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

This still doesn't explain why his coaches were contemplating moving him to receiver. HIS COACHES were the ones bothered. If they were bothered, then I think we need to be.

did they actually say that the move was contemplated because of his wariness to run inside? if not, it could also mean that they were trying to maximize his abilities, Scott Wright mentioned in his scouting report of him, that he's capable of player receiver, he definitely has the speed, athleticism, and hands for the position, and is a terror once he's in open space

No one has ever questioned MBIII's toughness. Even in college you would see him break tackles and take on defenders. Again.....I haven't seen anything of CJ except for him outrunning everyone....Which isn't a bad thing. But he won't do that a bunch in the NFL. You have to make people miss. I haven't seen that from him. Nor have I seen a clip of him breaking a tackle or stiff-arming a defender.

the point I'm making is that fast players in college, tend to try and turn the corner because they have the ability to out-run everyone at that level, it doesn't necessarily mean that they lack toughness, running east-west opens up big play opportunities, that's why Barber tends to bounce his runs outside

Hopefully you're right....If Barber goes down, then what? Can you sit there and tell me that Johnson will get the first? If so, then he may be our guy. I'm not looking for a compliment to Barber. I'm looking for someone that can spell him if needed and replace him if necessary.

Barber looks to be our guy at RB, so ruling out a complementary back isn't the way to go IMO, and it was reported that Dallas spoke w/ him on 2 occasions

it would be nice to get more speed on the field, heck, we could line up the 2 in the backfield together, only to motion out CJ into the slot, get him some plays where he's in the open field, run stretch plays w/ him, etc.

I disagree. The great backs...the good ones even...have always been able to make the defender miss. You mention Barber and Westbrook....No, they never were going to run over guys, but they could ALWAYS make guys miss. Guys like Jones-Drew and Bush could outrun guys, but they also can make players miss.

Can CJ do this? Again, he may be able to....but I haven't seen it. Admittedly, I didn't watch much of him. If we draft him, I hope

we'll just have to watch more, I too haven't gotten my fill of him to determine his vision and agility either way

Maybe....But can he learn toughness? I go back to his coaches wanting to move him to WR. Now, I read that his coaches were impressed with him this season. He seemed committed to running inside. But is this something he can maintain?

it's all about effort and wanting to do something, if he committed himself to running inside, I think it's a good bet that it will continue, esp. after the season he posted doing that, and I'm sure he'll be coached up to run more north-south once he hits the bigs

Most of the time, either a RB has vision....or he doesn't. I've not seen many RBs come into the league and "develop" vision. That's why a RB doesn't need groomed. Most of the time RBs can come right in and play.

as we saw w/ Julius, sometimes guys can lose their vision, so it's not inconceivable that you could gain it too

Where did I say I was afraid of speed? I merely pointed out that so many guys look at a forty time and say, "Sheesh....do you see his forty time?....We gotta draft the guy!"

Forty times are important in the fact that they help separate players. If you have two RBs rated evenly and one runs a 4.6 and the other runs a 4.4, then you take the 4.4 guy.

But so many Couch Scouts ignore vision, size, production, and go solely on forty times. Now, CJ's stats are impressive, so he must be doing something right......or did this year.

pretty much agree here

Sure he's up there. I wouldn't throw a fit if we took him. I have enough faith in our scouts. I know I'm not very good at evaluating players, or I'd have a job as a scout.

For his sake, and ours if we draft him, I hope he turns out to be a stud.

agreed again

 

[Hong2221]

someone tell me why ray rice would not be a good pick?!

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I agree.

Better overall player.

do u even watch college football or just listen to the talking heads (ESPN)

Ray rice better all around football player thats a joke when CJ can catch better out of the back field and return kick offs ray rice had more rushing yards on like 200 more carries ray rice ran the ball way 2 much in college and he would be a terrible pick up for us he's over rated and will be a bust so much hype for him and its all unfounded

 

[masomenos]

this guy is a kick returner yet he lacks vision something i don't understand. You don't have to break a gillion tackles to be consider a good RB. Tiki Barber used to have a fumbling problem and that was corrected. Blocking can be taught. So the two biggest complaints on him can be corrected. Speed can't be taught outside of DMac he's the most talented RB in the draft. This go will be a headache for oppossing Defensive coodniators. and he had 1400 rushing yards not 1200

Returning kicks is completely different than running the ball as a RB. That's why Commanders RB Rock Cartwright is a terrific kick returner but a below average RB. Now some guys like Maurice Jones-Drew can do both, and some RBs are better running the ball in the backfield than returning kicks. Their just different skill sets.

You don't have to break a ton of tackles to be a good RB, but you do have to be able to take the ball inside, keep your legs moving and not go down on first contact. Now that seems like it would be an easy thing to do, but their are a lot of RBs whose legs just die when they're hit. Leg drive is a huge factor for RBs and I haven't seen enough of that from Johnson to be convinced.

So two of the most important factors to inside running, vision and leg drive are question marks for Johnson. I don't think he's as bad as Felix Jones, but in this class he's certainly below average in those two skills. That's why it would be hard for me to spend a first round pick on him. Once it gets into the second round he's a more reasonable selection because he does have versatility as a kick returner and as a receiver either split out or out of the backfield. And yeah, he could even run the ball some, but I think we'd need to sign a true inside RB in FA as insurance in case Barber got hurt. A guy like Mewlede Moore would come cheap and would provide that insurance.

But who knows, maybe Johnson would impress with his inside running ability during camp, but I think the odds are against it. So draft him, sure, but don't draft him as a pure backup RB. Draft him as an athlete, move him around, create mismatches, but also have a plan in place in case he doesn't have the ability to effectively handle the RB position.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Returning kicks is completely different than running the ball as a RB. That's why Commanders RB Rock Cartwright is a terrific kick returner but a below average RB. Now some guys like Maurice Jones-Drew can do both, and some RBs are better running the ball in the backfield than returning kicks. Their just different skill sets.

You don't have to break a ton of tackles to be a good RB, but you do have to be able to take the ball inside, keep your legs moving and not go down on first contact. Now that seems like it would be an easy thing to do, but their are a lot of RBs whose legs just die when they're hit. Leg drive is a huge factor for RBs and I haven't seen enough of that from Johnson to be convinced.

So two of the most important factors to inside running, vision and leg drive are question marks for Johnson. I don't think he's as bad as Felix Jones, but in this class he's certainly below average in those two skills. That's why it would be hard for me to spend a first round pick on him. Once it gets into the second round he's a more reasonable selection because he does have versatility as a kick returner and as a receiver either split out or out of the backfield. And yeah, he could even run the ball some, but I think we'd need to sign a true inside RB in FA as insurance in case Barber got hurt. A guy like Mewlede Moore would come cheap and would provide that insurance.

But who knows, maybe Johnson would impress with his inside running ability during camp, but I think the odds are against it. So draft him, sure, but don't draft him as a pure backup RB. Draft him as an athlete, move him around, create mismatches, but also have a plan in place in case he doesn't have the ability to effectively handle the RB position.

We'll at 5-10 200 lb's i don't think you can question his leg drive to much. I still don't think his vision is a problem and he is a match up a problem. Could be moved around and do all sorts of things i also think he could be a solid back up but i still think we would need to pick up another RB. He reminds me of MJD dats y i like him so much

 

[masomenos]

We'll at 5-10 200 lb's i don't think you can question his leg drive to much. I still don't think his vision is a problem and he is a match up a problem. Could be moved around and do all sorts of things i also think he could be a solid back up but i still think we would need to pick up another RB. He reminds me of MJD dats y i like him so much

Height and weight has NOTHING to do with leg drive, Julius Jones is 5-10 208lbs and constantly went down on first contact. In 2006 Johnson was very inconsistent in keeping his legs moving after contact and while he improved in 2007 he still had a tendency to let his legs die when he didn't keep his pad level down. So it is a legitimate concern. Is it something that he can overcome? Yeah, it's possible, but some RBs never do.

I have seen some examples where it looks like Johnson has pretty good vision, but he has to be more disciplined in not just trying to bounce runs to the outside. Again, he did show improvement in that regard as a senior, but I don't think it's at a point yet where you could say that it's one of his strengths. I don't know if he bounces runs so much because he feels he has the speed to do so or because he can't find the holes. That's where that question mark arises.

I do see some links between Johnson and MJD though and I could agree that he has the potential to become a similar player. Now I don't think it will happen as quickly, Johnson has a lot more to work on than Drew did coming out of college. Johnson is versatile enough to be able to make an impact in other areas if he never develops into a quality NFL RB though. I guess it's just a risk/reward type thing.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Height and weight has NOTHING to do with leg drive, Julius Jones is 5-10 208lbs and constantly went down on first contact. In 2006 Johnson was very inconsistent in keeping his legs moving after contact and while he improved in 2007 he still had a tendency to let his legs die when he didn't keep his pad level down. So it is a legitimate concern. Is it something that he can overcome? Yeah, it's possible, but some RBs never do.

I have seen some examples where it looks like Johnson has pretty good vision, but he has to be more disciplined in not just trying to bounce runs to the outside. Again, he did show improvement in that regard as a senior, but I don't think it's at a point yet where you could say that it's one of his strengths. I don't know if he bounces runs so much because he feels he has the speed to do so or because he can't find the holes. That's where that question mark arises.

I do see some links between Johnson and MJD though and I could agree that he has the potential to become a similar player. Now I don't think it will happen as quickly, Johnson has a lot more to work on than Drew did coming out of college. Johnson is versatile enough to be able to make an impact in other areas if he never develops into a quality NFL RB though. I guess it's just a risk/reward type thing.

Well thats one of the reason why i like johnson because he's a senior and not a junior him being a senior makes him more polished than some of the juniors that came out some of the troubles you saw him have in 06 started to go away in 07 and him coming to the cowboys being motivated by our staff we can get him even further along then where he is currently at he is constantly improving

 

[Bizwah]

do u even watch college football or just listen to the talking heads (ESPN)

Ray rice better all around football player thats a joke when CJ can catch better out of the back field and return kick offs ray rice had more rushing yards on like 200 more carries ray rice ran the ball way 2 much in college and he would be a terrible pick up for us he's over rated and will be a bust so much hype for him and its all unfounded

Do you?

Check the career stats...then get back to me.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Do you?

Check the career stats...then get back to me.

Ray Rice
2005 Rushing 195 attempts 1120 5 TD's Reciving 8 catches 65 yards
2006 Rushing 335 attempts 1794 20 TD's Receiving 4 catches 30 yards
2007 Rushing 380 attempts 2120 24 TD's Receiving 25 239 yards 1 TD's


Chris Johnson
2004 Rushing 134 Attempts 561 5 TD's Receiving 32 236 yards 2 TD's
2005 Rushing 176 Attempts 684 6 TD's Receiving 35 356 yards 2 TD's
2006 Rushing 78 Attempts 314 4 TD's Reciving 21 176 yards
2007 Rushing 236 Attempts 1,423 17 TD's Receiving 37 528 6 TD's

Basically the stats says Ray Rice was a featured back got more carries and more chance to run the ball. Also says he doesn't catch out of the back field Johnsons 528 yards was second on his team. Also missing is kick returning stats. So how is ray rice the better all around running back ?

 

[theogt]

So how is ray rice the better all around running back ?

Better all around runner (i.e., tougher runner, better cutting ability, better vision, better balance). Better blocker. And Ray can catch out of the backfield, he just wasn't used much that way in college.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Better all around runner (i.e., tougher runner, better cutting ability, better vision, better balance). Better blocker. And Ray can catch out of the backfield, he just wasn't used much that way in college.

I highly agree that Rice is a far superior, all around, back than Johnson. Johnson just gives you that really nice 'WOW' factor possibility if he's a fast as advertised.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Better all around runner (i.e., tougher runner, better cutting ability, better vision, better balance). Better blocker. And Ray can catch out of the backfield, he just wasn't used much that way in college.

RB run catch and return is a better running back than some who just runs. Here;s comes the old arguement the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence show me league ray rice hasn't show at a collegiate level that he could catch out of the back field maybe he wasn't asked to do it because he had poor hands? Cutting Ability and better vision and balance? 1 define how you can determine CJ vision im tired of hearing this argument. Cutting ability ????? so now ray rice is agile and makes people miss in the open field ? or he nows how to find the cut back lane??? is that what you mean tougher runner doesn't mean better runner. He doesn't have to be tuff when he out runs every1 and yes he will do it at the next level also. Blocker can be tought and that cap can be closed. I see a lot of specualtion on your part about CJ vision and cutting ability he obvious has cutting ability other wise he wouldn't be a kick returner. lmao this man is a triple threat run catches and is on special teams has blazing speed but in your mind thats bad. He's to fast the defense wil lcatch up poor vision blocking and fumbles...... If those are all the knocks on this kid then he is going to be an animal on the next level.

Yea u need to be tuff to be a good running back we all know how tuff emitt was but then again at that matters to you is the gimmicks a player does off the field like eating card board and bangin his helmet against his head

Lets say this guy doesn't become a bust as a RB he could still line up and play WR

Check out the hit CJ took against houston and pops right back up afterwards

 

[Bizwah]

Ray Rice
2005 Rushing 195 attempts 1120 5 TD's Reciving 8 catches 65 yards
2006 Rushing 335 attempts 1794 20 TD's Receiving 4 catches 30 yards
2007 Rushing 380 attempts 2120 24 TD's Receiving 25 239 yards 1 TD's


Chris Johnson
2004 Rushing 134 Attempts 561 5 TD's Receiving 32 236 yards 2 TD's
2005 Rushing 176 Attempts 684 6 TD's Receiving 35 356 yards 2 TD's
2006 Rushing 78 Attempts 314 4 TD's Reciving 21 176 yards
2007 Rushing 236 Attempts 1,423 17 TD's Receiving 37 528 6 TD's

Basically the stats says Ray Rice was a featured back got more carries and more chance to run the ball. Also says he doesn't catch out of the back field Johnsons 528 yards was second on his team. Also missing is kick returning stats. So how is ray rice the better all around running back ?

Wonder why that is?

Could it be that he was so talented, that he was given a chance right out of the gate?

I love the posters that say, "You must not watch football....you must only listen to ESPN" when you don't agree with them.

I could easily ask you if you only look at forty times or youtube highlights. I guarantee you that most of the posters on this board have only seen those highlights.

I am always wary of a player that has ONE good year. I am more inclined to favor a player that produces over the course of their college career over a player that "busts" out for one.

Now again, this isn't me promising that CJ won't be a good back....He may. Certainly in the past, players have had ONE good year and wound up being terrific backs....Terrell Davis and Garrison Hearst come to mind. But many times they also wind up being simply one year wonders......

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Wonder why that is?

Could it be that he was so talented, that he was given a chance right out of the gate?

I love the posters that say, "You must not watch football....you must only listen to ESPN" when you don't agree with them.

I could easily ask you if you only look at forty times or youtube highlights. I guarantee you that most of the posters on this board have only seen those highlights.

I am always wary of a player that has ONE good year. I am more inclined to favor a player that produces over the course of their college career over a player that "busts" out for one.

Now again, this isn't me promising that CJ won't be a good back....He may. Certainly in the past, players have had ONE good year and wound up being terrific backs....Terrell Davis and Garrison Hearst come to mind. But many times they also wind up being simply one year wonders......

Well CJ had a steady improvement except his junior year where i think he got hurt. We'll MB3 wasn't a featured back in college and Dmac was splitting time also and if your going to say Ray Rice is more talented than DMac....... 700 + carries in 2 years year.......... I'm not to kean on the guy who ran the ball so much and doesn't offer you anything than running the ball on a lot of carries the more carries you yield in the NFL the more then injuries pile up and all sorts of things

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Better all around runner (i.e., tougher runner, better cutting ability, better vision, better balance). Better blocker. And Ray can catch out of the backfield, he just wasn't used much that way in college.

I wanna see how you come to that conclusion

describe, don't just say you watch him

I agree w/ the rest though

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

Only RB i want to see Dallas with a first round pick is Rashard Mendenhall. I also dont think id be too sad if we ended up with Jonathan Stewart. He could also be something. I just think Mendenhall will be a great back inthe NFL.

Normally, you want your complimentary back to be different than your starter. Both of the players you mentioned are stocky, beefed up backs. They are used to being the feature back, & may have a hard time sitting behind Barber. Since Barber is close to the same size, you're not giving opposing defenses a change of pace to have to deal with.

What we need opposite Barber is a faster, smaller back like Felix Jones or Jamaal Charles. Both are quick, nifty runners who can hit the home run from anywhere on the field. Mendenhall & Stewart are more bruisers like Barber.
Of course, it would be pretty awesome to have both Mendelhall AND Barber taking turns beating the **** out of the NFC East defenses!!

Holy ****e, Batman!! I just came from Consensus Draft Services, where they interviewed CJ on Feb. 9. They asked him what his measurements were, and he said, "My height is 5'11", 200 pounds, and the last time I ran a 40, it was a 4.22 at Jr. Pro Day". Now I know these things can be wind aided, or quick thumb aided, but if this kid runs anywhere close to that at the Combine, he is going in the 1st rd.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Normally, you want your complimentary back to be different than your starter. Both of the players you mentioned are stocky, beefed up backs. They are used to being the feature back, & may have a hard time sitting behind Barber. Since Barber is close to the same size, you're not giving opposing defenses a change of pace to have to deal with.

What we need opposite Barber is a faster, smaller back like Felix Jones or Jamaal Charles. Both are quick, nifty runners who can hit the home run from anywhere on the field. Mendenhall & Stewart are more bruisers like Barber.
Of course, it would be pretty awesome to have both Mendelhall AND Barber taking turns beating the **** out of the NFC East defenses!!

Holy ****e, Batman!! I just came from Consensus Draft Services, where they interviewed CJ on Feb. 9. They asked him what his measurements were, and he said, "My height is 5'11", 200 pounds, and the last time I ran a 40, it was a 4.22 at Jr. Pro Day". Now I know these things can be wind aided, or quick thumb aided, but if this kid runs anywhere close to that at the Combine, he is going in the 1st rd.

I don't like any RB from Oregon since that last dude came out and was a bigger bust than when..... :insert random comment: lol

CJ should be a cowboy and is a legitmate threat at the next level and could push MB3 for the starting spot