Coaching Staffs Cannot Be Thrown Together

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would first like to say that I am one of those people that absolutely hate how helter skelter the board gets when interesting things happen in VR and I also concede that I am contributing to make it even more so with a new thread.

In a perfect world, there would be a thread called 'stupid coaching ideas' and put all of the 'Shanahan, Gruden and Phillips' together threads or 'lets force any myriad of coaches together we can think of' threads into it and life would be good. I could put this thread there and it would be just peachy.

Alas, I am not a mod nor do I have any desire to be a mod nor do i find fault in our mods so it falls to me making a new thread.

The premise is quite simple: you don't just throw a coaching staff together. These guys work together for 14+ hours a day 3/4 of the year. They go to meetings together but most importantly, what they are coaching has to jive with what the other guy is doing. The WR coach and the RB coach need to be on the same page. What goes for the players goes fifty million times more for the coaches.

At the end of the day they need to be on the same page even moreso than players.

What needs to happen is that Wade or whoever the HC needs to be able to pick his coaches. Hes the one that has to work for them. Forcing Gruden on just about anyone is a horrible idea.

 

[AbeBeta]

The reality is that most staffs are "thrown together" -- no coach in the league is going to get his ideal guys at every spot because good coaches have and keep jobs and their employers don't want them going somewhere else.

Good coaches are flexible and able to get on the same page with each other quickly. That is what makes them good. Not some magic and unique puzzle piece fit with other guys on the staff.

 

[theebs]

You obviously dont follow the Jerry Jones led cowboys.

Anything and anyone can be thrown together and it should work. It is on course to work every feb-april.......Jerry's money can fix anything. Have a problem, throw some money around and bring in a new name....that will fix it.

Its one of the core problems here, if not the core problem. And it isnt changing anytime soon.

Jerry Might as well Put Junior in as the offensive coordinator.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Shanny can pick whoever he wants as coordinators, I have no problem with that.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Absolutely agree.

Jimmy (and no, I'm not advocating bringing him back, just making a point) gave Jerry the book on how to win Super Bowls, and Jerry basically tossed it out and hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl since. That said, Parcells did right the ship if only for a little while, but Jerry couldn't stay out of it.

JIMMY hired his great staff, but Barry, Chan and Dave were all handed all or parts of their staffs with very little say in the process.

Parcells did hire his staff (pretty good one as it turns out) and seemed to have done a great job of making the team better, but the meddling Jerry forced T.O. onto Parcells which more or less got him out of here.

My point is that the two times (Jimmy, Bill) Jerry almost got out of the way, the arrow was pointing up, but as soon as he got too involved things went south very quickly.

IMO, unless he fires the remaining coaches and hires a coach with full authority (staff and player decisions), we're destined for mediocrity again.

 

[theebs]

Absolutely agree.

Jimmy (and no, I'm not advocating bringing him back, just making a point) gave Jerry the book on how to win Super Bowls, and Jerry basically tossed it out and hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl since. That said, Parcells did right the ship if only for a little while, but Jerry couldn't stay out of it.

JIMMY hired his great staff, but Barry, Chan and Dave were all handed all or parts of their staffs with very little say in the process.

Parcells did hire his staff (pretty good one as it turns out) and seemed to have done a great job of making the team better, but the meddling Jerry forced T.O. onto Parcells which more or less got him out of here.

My point is that the two times (Jimmy, Bill) Jerry almost got out of the way, the arrow was pointing up, but as soon as he got too involved things went south very quickly.

IMO, unless he fires the remaining coaches and hires a coach with full authority (staff and player decisions), we're destined for mediocrity again.

the problem with that is, there is not going to be a new general manager and because of that we would need another coach who can be a jack of all trades. There is only one out there who can assemble a team, a staff and command the respect of the team and jerry, and that is mike holmgren.

And mike holmgren as good as he is is not that great of a personnel guy. Himself along with all his west coast 49er heritage buddies can never get a defense right, and if they do it takes years.

The other guy cowher, A. would never work for a man like jerry. and B. he is excellent at hiring a staff, maybe the best but how much say did he have in personell all those years, pittsburgh has philosophy that doesnt change regardless of the coach, so cowher and talent assembly could be a mystery.

So there are no men available who fit what we need. I dont buy wade staying as DC and I dont want him to.

its a bad situation and it will imo get much worse over the next 12 months after some crappy hires are made and this team tanks again next year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

the problem with that is, there is not going to be a new general manager and because of that we would need another coach who can be a jack of all trades. There is only one out there who can assemble a team, a staff and command the respect of the team and jerry, and that is mike holmgren.

And mike holmgren as good as he is is not that great of a personnel guy. Himself along with all his west coast 49er heritage buddies can never get a defense right, and if they do it takes years.

The other guy cowher, A. would never work for a man like jerry. and B. he is excellent at hiring a staff, maybe the best but how much say did he have in personell all those years, pittsburgh has philosophy that doesnt change regardless of the coach, so cowher and talent assembly could be a mystery.

So there are no men available who fit what we need. I dont buy wade staying as DC and I dont want him to.

its a bad situation and it will imo get much worse over the next 12 months after some crappy hires are made and this team tanks again next year.

Dear lord you have a hard on for Jones.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Why sure they can! ~lipsmack~

 

[STAR GAZER]

Shanny can pick whoever he wants as coordinators, I have no problem with that.

Ha Ha my sentiments exactly!!! :laugh2:

 

[theogt]

Shanny can pick whoever he wants as coordinators, I have no problem with that.

Hmmm....I'd let him pick the offensive coaches and that's it. I wouldn't let him have any decision in terms of personnel or defensive coaches, as he's proven he makes terrible decisions in those regards.

 

[STAR GAZER]

http://i15.***BLOCKED***/albums/a361/ChocolateLab/rj-landry.jpg........... Please don't go!!! :tantrum: :cry2:

 

[theebs]

Dear lord you have a hard on for Jones.

No, I have eyes and ears. And I use them both.

Jerry has had the luxury of being given credit as a man who knows what he is doing again because he had a real nfl guy making the decisions, or most of them for him.

He got alot of credit for the last two drafts because of how well the team played last year.

Now the crap has hit the fan again and jerry has no nfl guy to lean on.

and guess what, Jerry rebuilt his rep in the last few years with some fans by adding secondary talent.

Jerry hasnt been asked to draft a quarterback, draft a pass rusher, draft a wr, draft a left tackle etc....

all the primary positions every team struggles with were in place. Now we need some of those positions replenished and what do we get, a trade for williams, doug free, anthony spencer (who I like and hope he works out) etc..

Without a real NFL guy in the room, we are going the direction we went in the past.....a ton of talk about improvement and changes and no substance on the field.

I give Jerry Credit, I thought we would at least make a credible playoff run before he destroyed it again, but we didnt. He is even faster at being bad at his job than I rememberd, SO I will give him credit for being prompt and speedy.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, I have eyes and ears. And I use them both.

Jerry has had the luxury of being given credit as a man who knows what he is doing again because he had a real nfl guy making the decisions, or most of them for him.

He got alot of credit for the last two drafts because of how well the team played last year.

Now the crap has hit the fan again and jerry has no nfl guy to lean on.

and guess what, Jerry rebuilt his rep in the last few years with some fans by adding secondary talent.

Jerry hasnt been asked to draft a quarterback, draft a pass rusher, draft a wr, draft a left tackle etc....

all the primary positions every team struggles with were in place. Now we need some of those positions replenished and what do we get, a trade for williams, doug free, anthony spencer (who I like and hope he works out) etc..

Without a real NFL guy in the room, we are going the direction we went in the past.....a ton of talk about improvement and changes and no substance on the field.

I give Jerry Credit, I thought we would at least make a credible playoff run before he destroyed it again, but we didnt. He is even faster at being bad at his job than I rememberd, SO I will give him credit for being prompt and speedy.

Please stop making everything into a bash Jerry thread.

 

[Vintage]

The scouts liked Free, no? So blame the scouts. The scouts Parcells put in.

Same thing with Spencer, no?

Plenty of blame to go around for those two picks.

 

[theebs]

Please stop making everything into a bash Jerry thread.

A. I am not starting these threads and I do not wish to intentionally come here to talk about the two core issues that are the problems with the team. Its just that all this coach talk leads back, in my mind to those two core issues.

B. I didnt post for 3 weeks because what I believe in as a football fan and what I believe an organization should do and how it should do it are much different than most cowboys fans.

I guess I should just stay away. All I can really get is arguments right now.

 

[theebs]

The scouts liked Free, no? So blame the scouts. The scouts Parcells put in.

Same thing with Spencer, no?

Plenty of blame to go around for those two picks.

No doubt about it. It is a group effort, or at least it should be and after listening to brian broaddus on espn explain how it went in the offseason and in the war room with jerry and then jerry and bill I am not so sure it is a group effort.

and even if it is, who is the head guy? ANd once we establish that how come he never is at fault? Its always other people coming and going and having to work within his parameterrs. And the results without a real nfl guys sitting next to the head guy have always been the same.

Sporadic, forced, questionable, unreasonable, lack of foresight etc....those are how his decsions on everything always end up looking. Unorganized and impulsive. And teams that operate that way at the top end up with results like we have had, with and without Bill.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A. I am not starting these threads and I do not wish to intentionally come here to talk about the two core issues that are the problems with the team. Its just that all this coach talk leads back, in my mind to those two core issues.

B. I didnt post for 3 weeks because what I believe in as a football fan and what I believe an organization should do and how it should do it are much different than most cowboys fans.

I guess I should just stay away. All I can really get is arguments right now.

Fair enough. I can understand being mad but youre absolutely simpleminded in purpose. As you say, Jones isn't going anywhere so youre only setting yourself up for grief.

BTW what would you think of Stephen taking over?

 

[Venger]

You obviously dont follow the Jerry Jones led cowboys.

Anything and anyone can be thrown together and it should work.

Exactly. My favorite metaphor for Jones is that he'll spend a fortune buying eggs, milk, flour, and sugar, toss them in an oven and expect a Waldorf Astoria cake to come out, just because he paid top dollar on the ingredients.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Fuzzy, I'm confused.

By starting this thread, you were saying that you can't throw a staff together, but the one who does that (at least here in Dallas) IS Jerry.

As I said, I agree with your premise of hiring a head coach and getting out of the way. It's the way it should be done.

Unfortunately as of today, Jerry's jacking around letting his OC go, keeping an emasculated, lame duck head coach in place and will be scrambling to assemble a staff.

Like it or not, this mess (as always) falls at Jerry's feet.

BTW, I don't fault Jerry for everything, because last years draft was great, but his decisions on coaches, FA's and re-signing of certain players aren't exactly the best.

Please stop making everything into a bash Jerry thread.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The scouts liked Free, no? So blame the scouts. The scouts Parcells put in.

Same thing with Spencer, no?

Plenty of blame to go around for those two picks.

Free is now a failed pick?

I don't put that on the scouts or Jones. I put that directly on the coaching staff which outside of Bennett showed time and again they wouldn't give young guys a chance. With Bennett it was him or Curtis anyway.

That is one reason i LOVE Shanahan. One look at Royal and what he did with him is all you need to know on his score on that one.