combines dont mean squat

[STSINAZ]

combines dont mean squat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont care about a 40 time, tell me how long it takes someone to get to the quarterback or to the ball, or to make a tackle, at game speed with everything coming at you....a 40 time doesnt mean squat when it comes to that!

Look at Terrell Suggs...and many others...Jerry Rice! its all bullcrap!

I dont care how many times you can bench 225! tell me at game speed, with a big LT coming at you how you are going to overpower him...benching 225 isnt going to tell me that...too many other factors involved...angles, speed, pressure of the game...pressure to succeed...etc.etc.etc.

Here is what I want to see...I want to see how you are going to perform when all h$ll has broken loose on a play...while being slighly injured...and losing the game...how long will it take you to get to the qb then...how long will it take you to get downfield and will you catch the ball? how long will it take you to get to the ball and make the tackle under great odds....THATS THE TYPE OF STUFF I WANT TO KNOW...THEY NEED TO CHANGE THESE COMBINES SO THAT THEY CAN SIMULATE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS...THEN YOU WILL KNOW IF YOU HAVE A PLAYER! HANDICAP THE GUY BY THROWING A WEIGHT ON LEG...SEND TWO O LINEMEN AT HIM...SEE WHAT HE DOES THEN..HOW FAST DOES HE GET TO THE QB THEN? LIKE I SAID

THE COMBINES ARE A JOKE!

 

[drew97]

i agree

 

[BigWillie]

Yeah, to heck with the combine! What did it tell us about DeMarcus Ware? NOTHING!

Oh wait ...

 

[STSINAZ]

what did it tell us about terrell suggs? and by the way merriman is a better player than ware...and he will continue to be...why? just compare their stats in college....compare last years stats...merriman had more sacks in less games..was DROY...AND WAS IN THE PROBOWL...he dominated games while for most of the year ware was dominated....we shd have drafted merriman...but oh thats right ware had a better combine....MY BAD.....

 

[neosapien23]

what did it tell us about terrell suggs? and by the way merriman is a better player than ware...and he will continue to be...why? just compare their stats in college....compare last years stats...merriman had more sacks in less games..was DROY...AND WAS IN THE PROBOWL...he dominated games while for most of the year ware was dominated....we shd have drafted merriman...but oh thats right ware had a better combine....MY BAD.....

I take nothing away from Merriman, but Ware was not allowed to rush the passer as much as he was. Zimmer's play calling was alot more conservative than the DS of San Diego. Ware did a much better job in coverage than Merriman even though Merriman was an actual linebacker in college. Ware is much faster than Merriman, but Merriman has much more power. Both are great players period.

 

[STSINAZ]

ware rushed the qb as much as they thought he could...he was dominated alot...trust me if he was any better at it then they would have rushed him more...but he wasnt...he had like 3 moves! merriman dominated all the time!

 

[neosapien23]

ware rushed the qb as much as they thought he could...he was dominated alot...trust me if he was any better at it then they would have rushed him more...but he wasnt...he had like 3 moves! merriman dominated all the time!

Dude, Merriman got burned alot. He was absolutely horrible at covering his assigned man. I will agree with you that he is a better pass rusher though. Ware had alot of quarterback pressures. He was very close to being a dowble digit sack guy himself. Merriman is a better pass rusher but not by much.

 

[BigWillie]

Why are we even bringing up Merriman? Shawne was a bigger workout warrior than Ware was. Merriman was thought of as a freak, but no one ever knew how much so until after the combine.

So thanks for making my point for me again....

 

[Arch Stanton]

I guess none of the owners or coaches should bother next year.

 

[Chuck 54]

Obviously the professional coaches, gms, and owners don't agree with you...they see the combines as very important, and don't doubt it for a second.

40 times are only important if 1. you aren't one of the elite college players by performance and 2. you run slower or faster than most of the guys in your class or guys you play against.

Depending on your position, coaches learn a great deal from the short shuttle runs and more from your position drills.

They get a chance to see you up close and personal on the field, the way they have seen their players every day for years in the NFL, including in the weight room, meeting rooms, and on the field. With that, they have a pretty good idea of how you stack up against NFL players.

You may find guys who are great NFL players (I'm not sure I'd put Suggs in that category) who ran a slower than expected 40, but not a really slow 20 and shuttle times or a guy who looked out of place in the position drills or couldn't hit 20 reps of 225 as a lineman.

There are also busts every year....I'd suggest that most, not all, of the busts are guys selected because coaches put too much emphasis on a fast 40 time or impressive workout that didn't pair up with on-field performance or guys who looked great in college, but didn't look great up close but the coaches took them anyway.

In the big picture that is the NFL draft, vastly more players make it than go bust in the early rounds...coaches do their homework and pay a lot of attention to the combines to help them be more successful...and that's not even mentioning avoiding the dumber guys or flakes due to mental testing and rigorous interviewing at the combines.

 

[jackrussell]

ware rushed the qb as much as they thought he could...he was dominated alot...trust me if he was any better at it then they would have rushed him more...but he wasnt...he had like 3 moves!

Really? When did he develop the other 2?

 

[THUMPER]

Obviously the professional coaches, gms, and owners don't agree with you...they see the combines as very important, and don't doubt it for a second.

40 times are only important if 1. you aren't one of the elite college players by performance and 2. you run slower or faster than most of the guys in your class or guys you play against.

Depending on your position, coaches learn a great deal from the short shuttle runs and more from your position drills.

They get a chance to see you up close and personal on the field, the way they have seen their players every day for years in the NFL, including in the weight room, meeting rooms, and on the field. With that, they have a pretty good idea of how you stack up against NFL players.

You may find guys who are great NFL players (I'm not sure I'd put Suggs in that category) who ran a slower than expected 40, but not a really slow 20 and shuttle times or a guy who looked out of place in the position drills or couldn't hit 20 reps of 225 as a lineman.

There are also busts every year....I'd suggest that most, not all, of the busts are guys selected because coaches put too much emphasis on a fast 40 time or impressive workout that didn't pair up with on-field performance or guys who looked great in college, but didn't look great up close but the coaches took them anyway.

In the big picture that is the NFL draft, vastly more players make it than go bust in the early rounds...coaches do their homework and pay a lot of attention to the combines to help them be more successful...and that's not even mentioning avoiding the dumber guys or flakes due to mental testing and rigorous interviewing at the combines.

Good post Wayne. I would add, don't blame the combine for the media's focus on 40-times.

The combine also gives the owners/GMs/HCs a chance to get an accurate measure of these guys. Colleges often exaggerate a player's measurables (height, weight, speed, etc.) to hype the guy as do their agents once they sign with one. At the combine they are measured, weighed, tested mentally and physically, as well as subjected to numerous interviews by many of the teams.

To most owners/GMs/HCs it is the opportunity to interview these kids that is the real value of the combine plus seeing what kind of shape they come in. Guys who come in out of shape are likely to drop fast because it shows they don't have much committment. The interviews give the teams a chance to find out what kind of person the kid is, how he will handle certain situations, how mature he is, how he conducts himself, presents himself, etc.

You don't want to spend a high draft pick on a kid with an attitude problem regardless of how many yards he racked up in college. We have seen too many players who had great college careers and were selected in the first round go on to have a meltdown because they had character problems. That is why the Cowboys, Colts, Patriots, and many other teams avoid those guys like the plague.

The NFL is the ultimate TEAM sport and it requires that the players are able to play well with each other. Talent is not the only thing that counts as we have seen over and over again. Good players that can play together win championships while teams with more "talent" are watching the SB on TV because they couldn't get that "talent" to subjugate their egos for the success of the team.

The combine is very valuable to the owners/GMs/HCs & scouts who attend, it is the media who tend to focus on 40-times and Wonderlic scores.

 

[Doomsday101]

combines dont mean squat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont care about a 40 time, tell me how long it takes someone to get to the quarterback or to the ball, or to make a tackle, at game speed with everything coming at you....a 40 time doesnt mean squat when it comes to that!

Look at Terrell Suggs...and many others...Jerry Rice! its all bullcrap!

I dont care how many times you can bench 225! tell me at game speed, with a big LT coming at you how you are going to overpower him...benching 225 isnt going to tell me that...too many other factors involved...angles, speed, pressure of the game...pressure to succeed...etc.etc.etc.

Here is what I want to see...I want to see how you are going to perform when all h$ll has broken loose on a play...while being slighly injured...and losing the game...how long will it take you to get to the qb then...how long will it take you to get downfield and will you catch the ball? how long will it take you to get to the ball and make the tackle under great odds....THATS THE TYPE OF STUFF I WANT TO KNOW...THEY NEED TO CHANGE THESE COMBINES SO THAT THEY CAN SIMULATE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS...THEN YOU WILL KNOW IF YOU HAVE A PLAYER! HANDICAP THE GUY BY THROWING A WEIGHT ON LEG...SEND TWO O LINEMEN AT HIM...SEE WHAT HE DOES THEN..HOW FAST DOES HE GET TO THE QB THEN? LIKE I SAID

THE COMBINES ARE A JOKE!

You may think that but teams around the league do not send GM,coaches and scouts to the combines for nothing. In the big picture guys who are at the top of the board will not be overly affected but for others a good showing can move them up or down the board. I don't think anyone looks at the combines as the entire picture of a player but it is part of the overall view of the a player.

 

[Tio]

ware rushed the qb as much as they thought he could...he was dominated alot...trust me if he was any better at it then they would have rushed him more...but he wasnt...he had like 3 moves! merriman dominated all the time!

Yeah, thats why Ware had more tackles for loss , more pressures and was actually trusted by the cowboys in coverage. You have no idea what your talking about.

 

[trueblue1687]

combines dont mean squat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont care about a 40 time, tell me how long it takes someone to get to the quarterback or to the ball, or to make a tackle, at game speed with everything coming at you....a 40 time doesnt mean squat when it comes to that!

Look at Terrell Suggs...and many others...Jerry Rice! its all bullcrap!

I dont care how many times you can bench 225! tell me at game speed, with a big LT coming at you how you are going to overpower him...benching 225 isnt going to tell me that...too many other factors involved...angles, speed, pressure of the game...pressure to succeed...etc.etc.etc.

Here is what I want to see...I want to see how you are going to perform when all h$ll has broken loose on a play...while being slighly injured...and losing the game...how long will it take you to get to the qb then...how long will it take you to get downfield and will you catch the ball? how long will it take you to get to the ball and make the tackle under great odds....THATS THE TYPE OF STUFF I WANT TO KNOW...THEY NEED TO CHANGE THESE COMBINES SO THAT THEY CAN SIMULATE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS...THEN YOU WILL KNOW IF YOU HAVE A PLAYER! HANDICAP THE GUY BY THROWING A WEIGHT ON LEG...SEND TWO O LINEMEN AT HIM...SEE WHAT HE DOES THEN..HOW FAST DOES HE GET TO THE QB THEN? LIKE I SAID

THE COMBINES ARE A JOKE!

You're spending too much time in front of the TV and/or computer. Gee, I wonder why nobody else has had the desire to simulate the things you mention. A pretty good reason may be because YOU CAN'T. The combine is an excellent tool to measure OVERALL performance of an athlete. For instance: Barring the pipedream you're ranting on, who would be MOST LIKELY to get to the quarterback: a prospect who benches 225 41 times or one who gets 21 reps with the same weight (assuming they play the same position)?? Or who would better keep up with a fast receiver: prospect with a 4.4 40 or one with a 4.6?? It's all in the ability to apply the data. It's in the soup, STS. It's in the soup! Now we know why the wonderlic is given. Are you sure you're not really VYinaz??

 

[joseephuss]

The combine is not a joke. It is an important piece in evaluating players. Sometimes and some teams put too much importance on certain aspects of the combine such as the 40 yard dash. Each piece has to be evaluated and certainly actual play on the field is probably the most important. Just because some franchises aren't very bright and base their evaluations solely on the combine doesn't make the combine a bad thing. The combine is just a tool and some will use it wisely and other will abuse it.

 

[STSINAZ]

obviously if they are having the combine even in it's form today you have to go...no one is suggesting that...i merely am suggesting if you want to know what type of player you are getting you need to change it up a bit.

You may think that but teams around the league do not send GM,coaches and scouts to the combines for nothing. In the big picture guys who are at the top of the board will not be overly affected but for others a good showing can move them up or down the board. I don't think anyone looks at the combines as the entire picture of a player but it is part of the overall view of the a player.

 

[STSINAZ]

duh,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he played more games....are you serious? all I will tell you is this...merriman made DROY in less games...made the PROBOWL in less games...and dominated more games! did you see what he did to payton manning? did you see what payton said about him? didnt you see merriman dominate games? dware had one or two dominating games...and one in preseason....i would rather have merriman than ware....ware is going to be good but merriman is going to be great

Yeah, thats why Ware had more tackles for loss , more pressures and was actually trusted by the cowboys in coverage. You have no idea what your talking about.

 

[DallasKen]

I think Ware is going to be great too.

 

[DLCassidy]

combines dont mean squat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont care about a 40 time, tell me how long it takes someone to get to the quarterback or to the ball, or to make a tackle, at game speed with everything coming at you....a 40 time doesnt mean squat when it comes to that!

Look at Terrell Suggs...and many others...Jerry Rice! its all bullcrap!

I dont care how many times you can bench 225! tell me at game speed, with a big LT coming at you how you are going to overpower him...benching 225 isnt going to tell me that...too many other factors involved...angles, speed, pressure of the game...pressure to succeed...etc.etc.etc.

Here is what I want to see...I want to see how you are going to perform when all h$ll has broken loose on a play...while being slighly injured...and losing the game...how long will it take you to get to the qb then...how long will it take you to get downfield and will you catch the ball? how long will it take you to get to the ball and make the tackle under great odds....THATS THE TYPE OF STUFF I WANT TO KNOW...THEY NEED TO CHANGE THESE COMBINES SO THAT THEY CAN SIMULATE THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS...THEN YOU WILL KNOW IF YOU HAVE A PLAYER! HANDICAP THE GUY BY THROWING A WEIGHT ON LEG...SEND TWO O LINEMEN AT HIM...SEE WHAT HE DOES THEN..HOW FAST DOES HE GET TO THE QB THEN? LIKE I SAID

THE COMBINES ARE A JOKE!

I disagree. Obviously the teams all look at film, stats, coaches recommendations for the biggest impression of a prospect, but the combine helps compare running times on an equal playing field for all prospects, lets the team see how seriously the prospect takes what amounts to a job interview- is he in top shape? How important is being a pro player to him? How do guys from lesser conferences compare to bigger time prospects in an even set of drills? How does he sound in an interview?