Commanders

[NoLuv4Jerry]

if you ever want to get threatened on extremeskins...just hit them in the gut...mention lombardi trophies covered in scabs and the lack of busts in canton...i mean they were kicking me in the nads all morning...then i reached in and lobbed that grenade....and the server almost shut down...had i known that's all it took to slow down the bullets being sent in my direction...i would have done that much sooner

 

[AmishGangsta]

Once again, you Skins fans have the MOST unique way of seeing reality, and denying it... only to you kool-aid drinkers have the Skins "obviously outplayed" ANY team they've faced in preseason so far...

Maybe I’m wrong, but I could have swore that this thread was about the Commanders defense?

The Skins lack of offense had a lot to do with the Ravens leading in the majority of the box score statistics that you pointed out; as I've mentioned, that had a lot to do w/ missing many key components -- missing your starting running back, limiting the backup running back to six carries, missing your starting quarterback and sitting your pro bowl offensive lineman, I dunno, maybe that had something to do with that. So for the most part, we had our second string going up against the best defense in the league. We had 0 sacks and turnovers, and we drove down the field on them and scored - but why are we talking about the Skins offense? Maybe because there really isn't a definitive argument that can be made that the Skins defense has played poorly, thus far in the preseason, unless you really dig - just a hunch

Unfortunately for you and your argument, there’s more to a football game than just offensive production and box score statistics. Preaseason box score stats don‘t always effectively translate what happened on the field.
I saw a team that was faster and played more physical than the other - even the game announcers were commenting about how well the Skins defense was playing.

But since you want to talk about other aspects of the game, other than the defense. Our special teams were flying to the ball. We won the battle in field position. Our two punts started at the 15 and the 18 and kickoffs started at the 13 and the 19. We started Baltimore four times inside the 20;

Considering the fact that the Skins defense scored just as many points as the Skins and Ravens offenses, and they only allowed one score, I’d say that if anyone dominated the game, for the most part, it was the Skins defense.

The Steelers game was even worse for your argument.

If your looking at the box score stats alone, one might think the Steelers might have done something that was note worthy in that game. But for those of us with some kind of familiarity of the game, we witnessed three Steelers drives in a row by the starters end with punts, followed by a field goal at the end of the half. While their second and third stringers did put up some yardage, as your box score stats have pointed out, the drives ended just like this: Punt, field goal, field goal - hardly impressive, Skins D was the most impressive in that game as well, they played faster and more physical than any other unit in the game.

Even some of your fellow members agree that the Skins defense has been impressive. I get the impression you’re trying to argue this one just for the sake of an argument. Stick with criticizing the Skins offense, there's actually a case that can be made for that.

You're just wasting your time trying to nit pick a Skins defense that has played as well as any other defense in the preseason.

Though, I did find it kind of funny that, when you listed the stats of the Skins defense, you added it to a 2.5 adjusted screening process, however, you failed to do that when mentioning some of the offensive stats.

 

[burmafrd]

Skins D means nothing now. Wait untill the REAL games start and watch it get blown up.

 

[AmishGangsta]

if you ever want to get threatened on extremeskins...just hit them in the gut...mention lombardi trophies covered in scabs and the lack of busts in canton...i mean they were kicking me in the nads all morning...then i reached in and lobbed that grenade....and the server almost shut down...had i known that's all it took to slow down the bullets being sent in my direction...i would have done that much sooner

It looks to me like someone pushed your buttons the right way, and you went off on a trollish like tangent - hardly anything to brag about. When you're in someone else's territory, you have to water it down a bit and remain respectful. I'd be surprised if you were still a member there.

 

[silverbear]

Maybe I’m wrong, but I could have swore that this thread was about the Commanders defense?

Gee, I don't recall you claiming the Skins' DEFENSE "obviously outplayed" the opposition... I can admit that your defense outmatched the offense of the opposition, if that's the claim... but of course, y'all haven't played anything resembling a GOOD offense yet... and I'll still point out that opposing offenses have passed the ball fairly efficiently against your defense...

Unfortunately for you and your argument, there’s more to a football game than just offensive production and box score statistics.

And unfortunately for you and your argument, there's more to a football game than just how your defense played...

Preaseason box score stats don‘t always effectively translate what happened on the field.

What's funny about that argument is it's the EXACT same one used by you Skins fans against me this time last year, when I tried to tell y'all you were in deep doo-doo...

My predictions for y'all aren't quite as dire as they were last year, I think you'll be a bit better... but I still don't see you as a .500 team... those predictions are based largely on those preseason stats that you disparage...

Well, if you know how to use the stats, even in preseason, they CAN give you an accurate picture of how a team is shaping up, where they're weak and where they're strong, even if you've never seen them play a down... but I HAVE seen (and heard, while driving to work), every second of every Skins' game this preseason...

I saw a team that was faster and played more physical than the other - even the game announcers were commenting about how well the Skins defense was playing.

I'll give you both of those, indeed I have commented on it before... but being faster and more physical than last year's squad still doesn't make your defense GOOD, as in top 5 or top 10 good, because your defense last year blew chunks...

So I stand by my assertion that your defense will probably wind up ranking in the 15-20 range this year... and I believe your offense will rank worse than that... once again, that would translate into a sub-.500 team...

Considering the fact that the Skins defense scored just as many points as the Skins and Ravens offenses, and they only allowed one score, I’d say that if anyone dominated the game, for the most part, it was the Skins defense.

Of course you'd say that, you're a Skins homer... but the Ravens' defense dominated your offense even more than your defense dominated their offense...

If your looking at the box score stats alone, one might think the Steelers might have done something that was note worthy in that game. But for those of us with some kind of familiarity of the game, we witnessed three Steelers drives in a row by the starters end with punts, followed by a field goal at the end of the half. While their second and third stringers did put up some yardage, as your box score stats have pointed out, the drives ended just like this: Punt, field goal, field goal - hardly impressive, Skins D was the most impressive in that game as well, they played faster and more physical than any other unit in the game.

Once again, your defense played well against the Steelers' but the Steelers' defense played even better against you... when you only gain 220 yards of total offense, and score just 10 points, your offense has had its butt thoroughly kicked...

Even some of your fellow members agree that the Skins defense has been impressive.

I think it's improved, which I've said all along, but it still has issues that other teams will be able to exploit this season...

I get the impression you’re trying to argue this one just for the sake of an argument.

You only think that because I'm a Cowboys fan, and in your mind, that means I have to hate, and put down, the Skins... but the plain truth is, when I analyze other teams, I work very hard to stay dispassionate about it... what you're getting from me is a sincere and honest analysis of what I've seen, combined with what the stats sheet has told me...

Perhaps you should know that I have been in MANY of these arguments in the past, and have used that approach to win one after another at season's end... in 2005, you Skins fans were telling me that your defense was the best in the league, and I told you that you'd finish outside of the top 5, but in the top 10... IOW, y'all were good, but not the best in the league... I also said that the Cowboys' D would rank in the top 10 (this was back in preseason)... and when the smoke cleared, the Boys ranked 10th, the Skins ranked 9th...

Another argument I had took place in 2004, when I tried to tell you Skins fans that you had a SERIOUS problem at center, that would hamstring your offense (there were other problems as well, but the center position was the focal point of those problems at the time)... you Skins fans told me that the center position would not be a problem, that your guards were SO superior that they could cover up for any minor deficiencies on the part of your center ... the Skins struggled badly on offense that year, ranking 30th, and one of the first things they did the next offseason was go out and sign Casey Rabach... right now, I can't even recall the name of your center that season, I wanna say it was Corey Raymer...

Yet another argument that comes to mind did not involve the Skins, this time I was going round and round with Iggles fans... it was the season the Iggles replaced Torrance Small and Charles Johnson with Todd Pinkston and James Thrash... Iggles fans were all jacked up about that, and I told them that the difference in the combined production of Small and Johnson the year compared to the production of Thrash and Pinkston would be negligible... once again, when the season ended, I was proven right...

My point is that I'm really pretty good at this kind of thing... I also have quite the rep in here for beating you fans of other teams into submission with my stats-based arguments... at least, I'll stand on my track record for predictions like I've made in this thread... what's funny is that I'm not NEARLY as good when it comes to assessing the Cowboys, I think because I just can't be dispassionate when I look at them...

For the record, I'm predicting the Cowboys' offense will be very, very good, but as the regular season approaches, I'm having a hard time getting a handle on how good the defense will be... like your Skins, the Boys have put up some really good defensive stats (they've actually allowed fewer yards per game than the Skins have), but I'm still suspicious, because we haven't seen the fierce pass rush that Wade's schemes are supposed to provide... at this point, I can only hope that the Boys are just keeping all their little tricks under wraps until the games that count, but I don't know that's the case... and of course, I wonder about the impact of Newman's foot injury will be on the season, because the Boys' depth at cornerback is not good...

So right now, if pressed for a prediction, I'd say that if the Cowboys' defense is problematic, the offense and special teams are still good enough to get the Boys to 10-6, and I could see 12-4 easily if the defense does play up to our (Cowboys' fans) expectations and hopes...

 

[silverbear]

It looks to me like someone pushed your buttons the right way, and you went off on a trollish like tangent - hardly anything to brag about. When you're in someone else's territory, you have to water it down a bit and remain respectful. I'd be surprised if you were still a member there.

While I agree with you that it sounds like the guy played the troll (and I'm not about to give him a pat on the back for having done so), I can only note that it takes very little for a fan of another team to get banned over on ES... I don't post there, never have, but I have in the past seen threads in here where a Cowboys poster talked about how he got banned, and what he said was considerably milder than anything you've said in here, or some of your brother Skins fans have said in here... I didn't take the poster's word for it, he linked us to the thread, and I followed the link, read what he said for my own self...

Note that I'm not saying y'all have been out of line, or trolling, because you haven't been... you've done nothing to deserve banning... but over at ES, they are so deathly afraid of a responsible opposing viewpoint, of a fan of another team that's doing nothing more than talking football, that they ban such posters at the drop of a hat... if you were a Cowboys fan on ES, and talking the way you do in here, you'd be gonzo, and I suspect you know it...

Which is unsuprising, since I have seen Skins fans who bought a temp ban for refusing to toe the party line on that forum... the biggest difference I see between Cowboys fans on all of the Cowboys message boards I frequent and the fans at Extremeskins is we have a bunch of hypercritical fans on our boards, which leads to bitter intramural arguments, while ES is mostly a collection of Pollyannas, with few real critical fans... I mean critical as in able to analyze their team dispassionately... over there, they only want the fans who are drinking the burgundy kool-aid...

I can't testify to how other Skins boards are, never having been to any of them (I suspect they're not as bad, and I sure HOPE I'm right about that), but I can say that Extremeskins is by far the worst football message board I've ever seen for any team... extreme homerism is the rule of the day over there, all day, every day... and yet, it is also by far the most active football message board I've ever seen for any team (this one being the second most active, and we don't have half the active participation they do)... that says something about the average Skins fan's mindset to me...

Anyway, if I was a Skins fan, ES would not be my chosen message board... it's easy to understand why Danny Boy wanted to buy THAT board, to make it his "official" message board... the Mad Midget absolutely HATES honest criticism...

But back to your criticisms at the outset, if the guy got himself banned, he probably deserved it, based on how he talked... when I do wander into other teams' message boards, I make sure to talk straight, but to do so diplomatically... as a result, I am quite welcome on those boards, indeed I often catch gentle grief for not posting to them more often... for example, some of my biggest admirers on the newsgroups are Skins fans like Kevin Miller, or OverTheHillGang, or Iggles fans like Midnite Green...

I believe if you're gonna go to another team's board, you shouldn't ought to play the troll... now, I LOVE exchanging smack with trolls on these boards (some Cowboys message boards not only tolerate smackfests, they set up forums specifically designed for it), but only if they come lookin' for me...

 

[AmishGangsta]

And unfortunately for you and your argument, there's more to a football game than just how your defense played...

That's what this thread is about, the Commanders defense, try to keep up.

What's funny about that argument is it's the EXACT same one used by you Skins fans against me this time last year, when I tried to tell y'all you were in deep doo-doo...

My predictions for y'all aren't quite as dire as they were last year, I think you'll be a bit better... but I still don't see you as a .500 team... those predictions are based largely on those preseason stats that you disparage...

Since you seem to lump me with what every other Skins fan tells you, I wonder if you were one of the Cowboys fans that said the Skins defense would be horrible in 2004 and 2005. So you've been saying that the Skins defense would struggle for the last 3 years you now, and you finally got it right last year. Am I correct?

So you think the Commanders defense will rank 15th or lower? That be a bet I'd be willing to take. Sig bet?

 

[AmishGangsta]

of a fan of another team that's doing nothing more than talking football, that they ban such posters at the drop of a hat... if you were a Cowboys fan on ES, and talking the way you do in here, you'd be gonzo, and I suspect you know it...

Anyway, if I was a Skins fan, ES would not be my chosen message board... it's easy to understand why Danny Boy wanted to buy THAT board, to make it his "official" message board... the Mad Midget absolutely HATES honest criticism...

I've been a member of ES since 2004, and I havn't had any problems.

I know which incident you're talking about from the past. I briefly followed that situation; while my username on ES is fairly new, I've actually been there since 2004, in which I shared a previous account w/ my brother -- who's now the sole owner of that account, if that makes any sense to you.

I'm not really into message board politics, so I think I'm going to stay out of that one.

I will say this though, I think that situation is subjective, depending on which side of the fence you reside, however, I was dissappointed in members from both sides on that one. If I thought either of these two boards were a bad place I wouldn't post there. It's that simple.

I think Extremeskins offers a great experience to Commanders Skins fans, and the mods are more aggressive due to the overwhelming amount of traffic to the site.

 

[zrinkill]

 

[TunaFan33]

Not sure if I posted this on this thread, but...

Definitely do NOT count out a Joe Gibbs team when they are on their LAST lifeline.

I honestly feel they'll be good this year. Last year-it seemed like all the coaches and players just weren't on the same page(forget all the injuries). This year, they seemed to be alot more focused.

Looks like a 4 team race in the NFCE!

 

[silverbear]

That's what this thread is about, the Commanders defense, try to keep up.

Uhhh, the title of this thread is "Commanders", not "Commanders Defense"... I know that you'd desperately like to restrict the subject to just the defense, but you don't get to set the parameters of our debate...

Since you seem to lump me with what every other Skins fan tells you,

Where did I do that?? I merely recounted some debates I had with other Skins fans in years past, so as to document that I've been better able to analyze your team's strengths and weaknesses than their fans have... I also made some generic comments about their rampant homerism, and yes, I did include you in some of that, but only because you have demonstrated a tendency to view things connected to your team through burgundy sunglasses...

I wonder if you were one of the Cowboys fans that said the Skins defense would be horrible in 2004 and 2005.

Seems you don't really read my posts... I've already told you at some length my analysis of your 2005 defense back in that preseason... to give you the Readers Digest version, I predicted they'd finish in the top 10 in the league, but not in the top 5... IOW, I thought they were a pretty good defense, just not quite as good as the Skins homers were making them out to be...

They finished 9th, so that prediction looks pretty good, doesn't it??

I know you'd love to tell yourself that I'm just a Skins hater spewing my bias, but when they're good, I give them their props... I have said on a number of occasions in this preseason that I think they have the best running back corps top to bottom in the NFL... I even love Rock Cartwright, and honestly wonder why he stays with the Skins, when he could surely find a team that would use him more (not starter's reps, but more reps than he gets in DC)... and I think Chris Cooley is sexually ambiguous (those shorts are beyond gay), but a very, very good TE... Chris Samuels is getting older, but he's still pretty good... I'm both impressed and frustrated by the performance of former Cowboy Shaun Suisham for y'all... I think your linebacking corps is quite good, an opinion I've revised upward this preseason as a result of the Rocky McIntosh's play-- if that kid can stay healthy, he'll be very good for y'all...

But the plain truth is, that's about all the strengths I can find on the Skins... oh, Santana Moss is a pretty fair player, but the rest of your receving corps is quite awful... you have some talent in your defensive secondary, but until you guys come up with something resembling a pass rush, they'll still be victimized by good passing offenses...

So you think the Commanders defense will rank 15th or lower? That be a bet I'd be willing to take. Sig bet?

Never have done sig bets, you'll just have to content yourself with calling me out at season's end if I'm wrong... I can promise you that I won't run and hide if that happens...

 

[AmishGangsta]

Never have done sig bets, you'll just have to content yourself with calling me out at season's end if I'm wrong... I can promise you that I won't run and hide if that happens...

Nah, I wouldn't call you out, at the end of the season, I would probably just let it go

 

[silverbear]

I've been a member of ES since 2004, and I havn't had any problems.

I know which incident you're talking about from the past. I briefly followed that situation; while my username on ES is fairly new, I've actually been there since 2004, in which I shared a previous account w/ my brother -- who's now the sole owner of that account, if that makes any sense to you.

I'm not really into message board politics, so I think I'm going to stay out of that one.

I will say this though, I think that situation is subjective, depending on which side of the fence you reside, however, I was dissappointed in members from both sides on that one. If I thought either of these two boards were a bad place I wouldn't post there. It's that simple.

I think Extremeskins offers a great experience to Commanders Skins fans, and the mods are more aggressive due to the overwhelming amount of traffic to the site.

I know you're trying not to go on the record, but it needs to be said-- Art is a jacka$$... you know I'm right...

But from the exposure I've had to threads on that board, which consists of threads our trolls have brought back over here, if I was a Skins fan, I wouldn't even think about hanging out on that board...

Those mods go WAAAAY past "aggressive", up to the point of refusing to let fans of other teams register to post, if they can recognize by the chosen nom de plume that the would-be poster is a fan of another team... indeed, there have been times where I've read of Skins fans who couldn't register because they happened to live in Texas, for God's sake...

You think that kind of heavyhanded moderation is justifiable because of the volume of traffic over there, and I think it's a detriment to that board... it stifles the free flow of football discussion, and in effect established a "party line" that posters had better recognize and adhere to...

I don't think that makes for a good board, unless you want homerism instead of dialogue... sure am glad the mods in here don't impose those kinds of restrictions...

 

[silverbear]

Nah, I wouldn't call you out, at the end of the season, I would probably just let it go

Well, that's big of you, but I'm giving you official carte blanche to do just that... I'm a big boy, and will stand up and accept the consequences when I'm wrong...

At least, I THINK I'd do that in that situation, it hasn't really happened to me yet... there was this one time that I THOUGHT I was wrong, but later found out I was mistaken...

Seriously, I'm the kind of guy who will call my own self out when I'm wrong, so why would I have a problem with it if you point out my mistake?? I think you'll find I'm a pretty stand-up kind of guy...

 

[AmishGangsta]

Well, that's big of you, but I'm giving you official carte blanche to do just that... I'm a big boy, and will stand up and accept the consequences when I'm wrong...

At least, I THINK I'd do that in that situation, it hasn't really happened to me yet... there was this one time that I THOUGHT I was wrong, but later found out I was mistaken...

Seriously, I'm the kind of guy who will call my own self out when I'm wrong, so why would I have a problem with it if you point out my mistake?? I think you'll find I'm a pretty stand-up kind of guy...

...and to show you I'm not a complete homer, I like our runningback situation talent wise, however, I'm growing tired of Portis's attitude; he always seems to have some kind of excuse, whether it be with the offseason workouts -- what he did in Denver compared to being in Washington, and getting tired during the season, calling out Al Saunders and players at the end of the year in his press conferences and not practicing or playing in preseason games this year.

Yeah, LT doesn't practice or play in the preseason, but CP is not LT.
I smell trouble with that situation if the Skins aren't successful next year.

 

[silverbear]

...and to show you I'm not a complete homer, I like our runningback situation talent wise, however, I'm growing tired of Portis's attitude; he always seems to have some kind of excuse, whether it be with the offseason workouts -- what he did in Denver compared to being in Washington, and getting tired during the season, calling out Al Saunders and players at the end of the year in his press conferences and not practicing or playing in preseason games this year.

Yeah, LT doesn't practice or play in the preseason, but CP is not LT.
I smell trouble with that situation if the Skins aren't successful next year.

The Cowboys have often had players whose attitude I didn't care for... TO is the latest... but as long as they show up on game day, I hold my nose and root for them, reluctantly...

Regarding Portis, what I find most comical about him is his declaring himself a "team leader", then showing such a casual attitude toward training camp... what kind of example does that set, for a "team leader" to be doing that??

I'd be more concerned with his increasing issues with durability, if I was you... he seems to be slowly breaking down...

 

[AmishGangsta]

The Cowboys have often had players whose attitude I didn't care for... TO is the latest... but as long as they show up on game day, I hold my nose and root for them, reluctantly...

Regarding Portis, what I find most comical about him is his declaring himself a "team leader", then showing such a casual attitude toward training camp... what kind of example does that set, for a "team leader" to be doing that??

I'd be more concerned with his increasing issues with durability, if I was you... he seems to be slowly breaking down...

I agree, it doesn't set a very good example for the younger players, for a supposed leader to act the way he does; just imagine if every player on the team started sitting out in practice for things like tendinitis and arthritis - or better yet depression and anxiety attacks. :


Maybe I'm wrong on the severity of his injury, but I tell you what, I don't want to hear any excuses coming from him this year, put up or shut up -- you're getting the light training camp that you're accustomed to in Denver.

*EDIT* ... and as I just wrote this I stumbled upon an interview w/ Portis that supports exactly what I just said "I gotta make the most out of this year, or else I'll be out of here probably"
http://www.nfl.com/videos;jsessionid=361AF4F77E454FDC9718E6B216F75E9B?videoId=09000d5d801e9e1b

I don't think Gibbs and Co are as nonchalant with the problematic players as they appear to the public.

 

[silverbear]

I agree, it doesn't set a very good example for the younger players, for a supposed leader to act the way he does; just imagine if every player on the team started sitting out in practice for things like tendinitis and arthritis - or better yet depression and anxiety attacks. :


Maybe I'm wrong on the severity of his injury, but I tell you what, I don't want to hear any excuses coming from him this year, put up or shut up -- you're getting the light training camp that you're accustomed to in Denver.

*EDIT* ... and as I just wrote this I stumbled upon an interview w/ Portis that supports exactly what I just said "I gotta make the most out of this year, or else I'll be out of here probably"
http://www.nfl.com/videos;jsessionid=361AF4F77E454FDC9718E6B216F75E9B?videoId=09000d5d801e9e1b

I don't think Gibbs and Co are as nonchalant with the problematic players as they appear to the public.

Do you really think this might be Clinton's last year?? This comes as a shock to me, that it's even being discussed as a possibility... he's a head case, but he can flat play the game... smart teams tend to make allowances in that situation, much like the Boys have to keep TO happy...

 

[TunaFan33]

I agree, it doesn't set a very good example for the younger players, for a supposed leader to act the way he does; just imagine if every player on the team started sitting out in practice for things like tendinitis and arthritis - or better yet depression and anxiety attacks. :


Maybe I'm wrong on the severity of his injury, but I tell you what, I don't want to hear any excuses coming from him this year, put up or shut up -- you're getting the light training camp that you're accustomed to in Denver.

*EDIT* ... and as I just wrote this I stumbled upon an interview w/ Portis that supports exactly what I just said "I gotta make the most out of this year, or else I'll be out of here probably"
http://www.nfl.com/videos;jsessionid=361AF4F77E454FDC9718E6B216F75E9B?videoId=09000d5d801e9e1b

I don't think Gibbs and Co are as nonchalant with the problematic players as they appear to the public.

Ledell Betts should be your starter. Portis isn't exactly BAD-but Betts is every bit the power runner Portis isn't.

IMHO-Portis is more of a WCO-back, who's more of a perfect fit on Shanahan's schemes.

 

[Rack]

Do you really think this might be Clinton's last year?? This comes as a shock to me, that it's even being discussed as a possibility... he's a head case, but he can flat play the game... smart teams tend to make allowances in that situation, much like the Boys have to keep TO happy...

Don't compare Portis to TO.

TO was given days off cuz he works his arse off, Portis TOOK days off cuz he felt bloated or had a hang nail.