Compare the 2009 Team to the 1992 Team Position by Position

thechosen1n2

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joseephuss;3203273 said:
You have to remember that Irvin held out to start the year in 1992. I can't remember when he finally joined the team, but he had little to no training camp reps. Novacek also held out. The two biggest receiving threats got little time with Aikman during the pre-season.

Lots of people were down on Harper and his hands of stone. If the message boards were around back then they would have called for him to be cut a few times.

the key thing is this was a run first offense, this team is a pass first offense. That cowboy team was a machine, all about precision and no mistakes. First down after first down, and the line would allow you to RUN the ball in the redzone.
 

CowboyMike

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joseephuss;3203273 said:
You have to remember that Irvin held out to start the year in 1992. I can't remember when he finally joined the team, but he had little to no training camp reps. Novacek also held out. The two biggest receiving threats got little time with Aikman during the pre-season.

Lots of people were down on Harper and his hands of stone. If the message boards were around back then they would have called for him to be cut a few times.

And Austin did not start until week 5, so it pretty much evens out between him and Irvin.
 

The Realist

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I know it's only been one season, but Irivin never had more than 10 TD's. Miles just had a 11 and he didn't start the first 5 games.
 

dbair1967

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The Realist;3203398 said:
I know it's only been one season, but Irivin never had more than 10 TD's. Miles just had a 11 and he didn't start the first 5 games.

Yeah there's a reason Irvin didnt have alot of double digit TD seasons.

It's called Emmitt Smith.
 

Dave_in-NC

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The Realist;3203398 said:
I know it's only been one season, but Irivin never had more than 10 TD's. Miles just had a 11 and he didn't start the first 5 games.

That's the difference in weapons on the nineties team and this one.
 

AdamJT13

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dbair1967;3203232 said:
I think if it were the Roy Williams we thought we were getting, yeah. But the Roy Williams we have seen unfortunately is not the playmaker Harper was. Harper was one of the best big play guys in football from 92-94.

I dont know if he's a better pass rusher, when Haley was healthy he was elite. But overall there is not much comparison as Ware is a much more complete player.

Yeah Jones was a rookie, though he did play well. He was then benched the next yr however. He had more speed and range than either James or Brooking do however. Not sure if either of these guys we have now could play in that scheme.

Witten yes, Davis yes. Not sure about Ratliff over Maryland, I think Ratliff's a much better pass rusher but Maryland was outstanding vs the run. I do think Ratliff would be dominant as a 4-3 DT tough. I have no problem with taking Newman or Jenkins over Brown, but Kevin Smith was an outstanding player. Spencer couldnt play OLB in a 4-3 defense IMO.

Definitely wouldnt agree with either of those. The safeties we had in 92 were far better in pass coverage and made alot more plays than this group does. Casillas was more of a playmaker at DT than Olshansky is.


I think you have a glorified view of a lot of players on that 1992 team. And the 4-3 vs. the 3-4 isn't part of the discussion. Spencer wouldn't play OLB in a 4-3, but he could play defensive end. And Ken Norton and Vinson Smith couldn't play OLB in a 3-4; they'd be inside linebackers.

Harper certainly wasn't one of the best big-play guys in 1992. He made a big play in the NFC title game, but he didn't do a lot that season. Patrick Crayton had more catches, more yards, more touchdowns AND a higher YPC average this season than Harper did in 1992. A disappointing Roy Williams had more catches, more yards, more touchdowns and only a slightly lower YPC (16.1 to 15.7) this year despite missing a game. He had the same number of catches that went 20-plus yards and the same number of catches that went 40-plus yards as Harper did in 1992, and he had more catches for first downs. And his longest catch was longer than Harper's longest catch.

Haley had only six sacks in 1992 and probably never dropped into coverage. Ware had 11 sacks this season.

Jones was a rookie who, like you said, was benched the next season. James and Brooking are two of the main leaders of our defense, and they're bigger playmakers than Jones ever was for us.

Maryland was a good player who made one Pro Bowl (not 1992) in his career because he was on a great team. Ratliff is an All-Pro caliber player who should be a perennial Pro Bowl player.

Kevin Smith wasn't an "outstanding player" in 1992, if he ever was one. He was a rookie who didn't even start until late in the season. He was nowhere near the level that Newman and Jenkins are right now. For most of that season, a lot of people considered him a bust, because he was on the bench while a 12th-round draft pick was starting. Newman, that so-called "non-playmaker," had as many interceptions this season as Brown and Smith had combined in 1992. And Jenkins had more.

Washington and Everett were decent players but were nothing special, just like Hamlin and Sensabaugh. You might give the 1992 guys a slight edge because both Hamlin and Sensabaugh missed games with injuries this season, but they're pretty comparable as players.

And Casillas managed only two or three sacks per season, with a career high of three. That's just like Olshansky, whose career high is 3.5. That's a push.
 

AdamJT13

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DFWJC;3203263 said:
Tough call on Robert Jones. He was the NFC Rookie of the Year that year, had great range and was strong. Two years later he made the Pro Bowl. He led the team in tackles a couple of times too.

Jones never made the Pro Bowl. He didn't lead the 1992 team in tackles despite being the starting middle linebacker in a 4-3, and he was benched the following season. He did lead the 1994 team in tackles, but not the 1995 team, and he was not re-signed after that season. As a first-round draft pick, most people considered him a bust.
 

Disturbed

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The 1992 team was very aggressive and hungry. The 1992 offensive line was far better than the 2009 offensive line. If we had the 1992 line, we would have made all the short yardage plays of 2 yards or less this year. No stuffing Barrber on the 1 yard line.

We would be scary with the 1992 offensive line.
 

dboyz

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On offense Romo I think is the equal of Aikman; he just has to prove he can do it in the biggest of games. Of course they have totally different styles so you can't compare that.

Witten over Novaceck althought it is close. You can't just look at the numbers and those that remember know how good Jay was. Having said that Witten can do it all and is an all-pro.

The 92 offensive line is better although there are some similarities. The 92 line really kept the pocket clean. I think they were better in that regard than the current version. They were probably more consistent and less prone to penalty going off of my memory.

I would say our current running backs are the equal of Emmitt Smith. Yes Emmitt was spectacular, but the combination of Barber and Felix is formidable. Add in Tashard and that is a good mix. None of them alone can touch Emmitt but as a group it is equal.

Irvin over Austin, but it is close. Miles is getting better all the time. He may end up being the key to the postseason; can he keep making plays through the postseason.

Harper and Williams is a wash although Harper came up big during the postseason. Will Williams?

On defense I wouldn't compare positions because it is 3-4 versus 4-3. Our 92 pass rush was better. We were able to rush 4, rarely blitz as I recall and still get to the quarterback. However our rush this year has gotten better throughout the year and has been pretty good as of late. The New Orleans game at the end reminded me of the kind of pass rush from the 92 team. We were getting to the quarterback without blitzing.

Regarding the secondary, Kevin Smith was outstanding by the time the playoffs came around. Having said that the way Jenkins is playing he is there as well. I would give a slight advantage to the 09 corners but favor the 92 safeties. Probably a wash overall.

One of the biggest things is the 92 team rose to the occasion. Jimmy Johnson had that team mentally ready to go in the playoffs. Do we have that now? We'll see.
 

dbair1967

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AdamJT13;3204712 said:
I think you have a glorified view of a lot of players on that 1992 team.

With good reason wouldnt you agree? they were 13-3, won the toughest division in football. Spanked two excellent teams in the postseason to get to the Super Bowl and then destroyed a veteran Bills team appearing in a 3rd straight Super Bowl. They were the youngest team in football with an elite offense and the #1 ranked defense in football.

Harper certainly wasn't one of the best big-play guys in 1992. He made a big play in the NFC title game, but he didn't do a lot that season. Patrick Crayton had more catches, more yards, more touchdowns AND a higher YPC average this season than Harper did in 1992. A disappointing Roy Williams had more catches, more yards, more touchdowns and only a slightly lower YPC (16.1 to 15.7) this year despite missing a game. He had the same number of catches that went 20-plus yards and the same number of catches that went 40-plus yards as Harper did in 1992, and he had more catches for first downs. And his longest catch was longer than Harper's longest catch.

I think you are overrating pure stats here, because the game was a little different. The 92 team was more run oriented (we were right at a 50-50 run/pass blance, with 491 passes and 500 rushes). This years team threw the ball 550 times and ran it 436. Harper was a better downfield WR than either RW or Crayton are.

Haley had only six sacks in 1992 and probably never dropped into coverage. Ware had 11 sacks this season.

As I said before, I'd never contend Haley was a betetr overall player than Ware, but Haley was an elite pass rusher. He was also having to convert from a 3-4 OLB in the Niners scheme to a pure 4-3 DE with us.

Jones was a rookie who, like you said, was benched the next season. James and Brooking are two of the main leaders of our defense, and they're bigger playmakers than Jones ever was for us.

I guess I dont know how you'd quantify that James and Brooking are bigger playmakers. Niether make many plays vs the pass, they do get some sacks, but they blitz a whole lot mroe than any of our LB's did in 1992.

Maryland was a good player who made one Pro Bowl (not 1992) in his career because he was on a great team. Ratliff is an All-Pro caliber player who should be a perennial Pro Bowl player.

Ratliff is a tremendous pass rusher, but I still think Maryland was better vs the run. Would love to have seen ratliff in our old 4-3 though, he'd be amazing.

Kevin Smith wasn't an "outstanding player" in 1992, if he ever was one. He was a rookie who didn't even start until late in the season. He was nowhere near the level that Newman and Jenkins are right now. For most of that season, a lot of people considered him a bust, because he was on the bench while a 12th-round draft pick was starting. Newman, that so-called "non-playmaker," had as many interceptions this season as Brown and Smith had combined in 1992. And Jenkins had more.

Brown was a 12th rd pick in 1991 and was an eastablished young starter. They drafted Smith to replace veteran Isaac Holt, and he did after 9 or 10 games. He was an outstanding man cover CB who basically took away whomever he guarded, including Jerry Rice. I dont recall everything from the 92 season, but I definitely dont remember anyone thinking he was a "bust"

Washington and Everett were decent players but were nothing special, just like Hamlin and Sensabaugh. You might give the 1992 guys a slight edge because both Hamlin and Sensabaugh missed games with injuries this season, but they're pretty comparable as players.

Our current safeties do not make plays, those safeties did. They also played alot more physical and rarely, if ever missed tackles.

And Casillas managed only two or three sacks per season, with a career high of three. That's just like Olshansky, whose career high is 3.5. That's a push.

Its hard to say because of some of the scheme differences, but Casillas was definitely more active than Olshansky is. He also got 3 sacks alone in the NFC Championship game vs SF, and I believe thats the franchise record for msot sacks in a postseason game. Like Olshansky, Casillas came out in most passing situations, so the lack of sacks doesnt really tell the whole story. Again, it was a little different game then too.

As a team from man 1 through man 53, the 92 team was considerably more talented and IMO would be our current team rather easily. Thats not a knock on this team either, as they'd beat any of todays teams easily.
 

dboyz

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One other area I forgot and I think everyone else has is FB. D. Johnston was a pro bowl fullback and considerably better than anything we have now.

He was an excellent blocker and could catch the dump offs for 6 or 8 yards. I think he had several catches in the NFC Championship game, particularly early on when Aikman had to check down.
 

xWraithx

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dbair1967;3203402 said:
Yeah there's a reason Irvin didnt have alot of double digit TD seasons.

It's called Emmitt Smith.

along with getting tackled at the 1 yard line 10,000 times
 

joseephuss

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xWraithx;3205421 said:
along with getting tackled at the 1 yard line 10,000 times

You figured a guy with the nickname "The Playmaker" would not get tackled short of the end zone as much as he did.
 

DFWJC

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AdamJT13;3204733 said:
Jones never made the Pro Bowl. He didn't lead the 1992 team in tackles despite being the starting middle linebacker in a 4-3, and he was benched the following season. He did lead the 1994 team in tackles, but not the 1995 team, and he was not re-signed after that season. As a first-round draft pick, most people considered him a bust.

Hate to drag this minor issue on, but hey, it's mid-week....I disagree that "most people considered him a bust" but that's fine if you think so.

But I think he did only lead the team in tackles one year and was barely behind ken Norton (120-108) in 1992....so almost two years, not quite.

Here are some Wiki excepts:

Why he took the bucks in free agency...

"In the 90's when free agency was instituted in the NFL, the Cowboys organization felt they could find linebackers through the draft, without the need of paying a premium and adversely impacting the salary cap, so they allowed talented and productive players like Ken Norton Jr., Darren Smith, Dixon Edwards, Robert Jones and Randall Godfrey to leave via free agency, instead of signing them in to long-term contracts"

Pro Bowl mention....

"In 1994, he (Jones) had the best year of his career, going on to be selected to the Pro Bowl, after registering 162 tackles (then the fourth-highest single season total in Cowboys history) and 4 passes defensed while starting all 16 games at middle linebacker."

Oh well, I must be bored.
Go Cowboys:star:
 

The Panch

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DFWJC;3205502 said:
Hate to drag this minor issue on, but hey, it's mid-week....I disagree that "most people considered him a bust" but that's fine if you think so.

But I think he did only lead the team in tackles one year and was barely behind ken Norton (120-108) in 1992....so almost two years, not quite.

Here are some Wiki excepts:

Why he took the bucks in free agency...

"In the 90's when free agency was instituted in the NFL, the Cowboys organization felt they could find linebackers through the draft, without the need of paying a premium and adversely impacting the salary cap, so they allowed talented and productive players like Ken Norton Jr., Darren Smith, Dixon Edwards, Robert Jones and Randall Godfrey to leave via free agency, instead of signing them in to long-term contracts"

Pro Bowl mention....

"In 1994, he (Jones) had the best year of his career, going on to be selected to the Pro Bowl, after registering 162 tackles (then the fourth-highest single season total in Cowboys history) and 4 passes defensed while starting all 16 games at middle linebacker."

Oh well, I must be bored.
Go Cowboys:star:
You fell under the Wikipedia spell. He never made a Pro Bowl, nor did he ever have 162 tackles in a season.
 

NickZepp

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QB

92<09 slightly. I think Romo is better in the long run but right now I take Aikman

RB
92>>>>Anyone except possibly Sanders around this time. But Emmitt was much better than anyone credits him for and he's the best rusher in NFL history.

WR
92<09 Irvin is the best of the bunch but I actually like our other guys like Crayton and some of the other young guys better. I can't even think of a 3rd guy from the 90s.

TE
92<09 and I love Novacek but Witten is could be the best TE in the history of the game

OL
92>09 slightly both a good but 92 has Erik Williams so that gives them the edge.

Defense is hard because they are 2 different defenses.

DL

92>09 Lett and Haley were stars

LB
92>09 Both a really good though.

DBs
92>09 Washington was huge in the playoffs. Was Smith the other guy. He was pretty solid too when he was health. We have better corners now but those corners were good back then and the safeties were a lot better.
 

Crad|e

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I'm telling you right now.. if these two teams played 92 vs 09. 09 would win, pretty nicely. There's not a player on that defense in 92 that could cover Witten, much less Austin. Guys we're in a pass happy league, the game isn't the same. The 92 secondary would get torn apart in today's league. Jenkins would probably shut out Irvin.. the only true threat for 92 would be the run game.

Not taking anything away from the 92 team, they did have a lot of talent.. like you all said HOF talent. But in today's league 09 wins.
 

YosemiteSam

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NickZepp;3205594 said:
WR
92<09 Irvin is the best of the bunch but I actually like our other guys like Crayton and some of the other young guys better. I can't even think of a 3rd guy from the 90s.

K-Mart (Kelvin Martin)
 

dbair1967

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xWraithx;3205421 said:
along with getting tackled at the 1 yard line 10,000 times

Yeah it was really amazing how many times Irvin got to the 1yd line...Novacek had that happen quite a bit too. Many peope thought it was a conspiracy. :)
 
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