Comparing DMac to Matt Forte

[masomenos]

So basically all Forte can do is run the ball no receiving TD's. Has average speed running above 4.5. He basically an average back and does nothing to stand out. Chris Johnson has basically speed can catch out of the backfield and has played special teams the same goes for DMac who can also play QB. Do you see the difference yet? Did Tulane have a bowl game if so did they win and what did matt forte do in that bowl game? Kevin Smith ran for almost 2500 yards and is projecting to be a 4th round prospect. I think this speaks to how deep the draft is at the RB posistion. After the Combine forte stock will go up even higher he will probally be a 2nd round prospect.

Well, in the past two years he has more receiving yards and the same amount of receiving TD's as McFadden. I mean Forte has 60 catches in the past two seasons, so he can certainly catch the ball out of the backfield. Also, look what he did receiving in the Senior Bowl. Tulane didn't have a bowl game, but again I think it's something that can be chalked up to the coaching/offensive system change. Last year was the first year Tulane had a TE or a FB (at least on any consistent basis) in Forte's entire career. I don't really see the difference in Forte, Johnson and McFadden though, no. Yes the latter two have more explosive first steps and better pure speed, but why does it matter how they got their yards?

Why does the fact that McFadden played special teams make him more valuable? Most of his fumbles came on returns. And I would be highly surprised if a team put a player with McFadden's contract back there to be a return man, and risk injury. Now with Johnson, I will admit, he's a great return man, he'll probably even have a couple of returns for TDs as a rookie. But again, look at total yards from scrimmage and total TDs, I don't think that Johnson has a big enough edge there to be thought so highly of while Forte just gets over looked.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Well, in the past two years he has more receiving yards and the same amount of receiving TD's as McFadden. I mean Forte has 60 catches in the past two seasons, so he can certainly catch the ball out of the backfield. Also, look what he did receiving in the Senior Bowl. Tulane didn't have a bowl game, but again I think it's something that can be chalked up to the coaching/offensive system change. Last year was the first year Tulane had a TE or a FB (at least on any consistent basis) in Forte's entire career. I don't really see the difference in Forte, Johnson and McFadden though, no. Yes the latter two have more explosive first steps and better pure speed, but why does it matter how they got their yards?

Why does the fact that McFadden played special teams make him more valuable? Most of his fumbles came on returns. And I would be highly surprised if a team put a player with McFadden's contract back there to be a return man, and risk injury. Now with Johnson, I will admit, he's a great return man, he'll probably even have a couple of returns for TDs as a rookie. But again, look at total yards from scrimmage and total TDs, I don't think that Johnson has a big enough edge there to be thought so highly of while Forte just gets over looked.

The more things you can do the more valuable you are why is that so hard to understand ?

 

[masomenos]

The more things you can do the more valuable you are why is that so hard to understand ?

The more things you do well, and do well often, the more valuable you are. When you draft a RB his main role is to play RB. You first draft on a players ability to play his position, and I think that Forte does that better than Chris Johnson. Any added versatility is just a bonus. If a guy can contribute in the return game then that's great. Right now on the roster we have a top 10 punt return man in terms of yards per return, and we very well may draft a CB who can contribute in the return game as well. Every player we draft doesn't need to have the ability to contribute in 5 different ways, sometimes you just need a player who can play his position.

A players value to the team comes from how much his play aides in the teams success. And someone can do that from operating in one role just as well as he can do it operating in two roles.

Patrick Crayton is a starting WR and out punt returner, does that make him more valuable than Terrell Owens, who just plays WR? Does it make him more valuable than T.J. Housmanzadah who's also a #2 WR but is solely limited to that role? Versatility does not define value.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

The more things you do well, and do well often, the more valuable you are. When you draft a RB his main role is to play RB. You first draft on a players ability to play his position, and I think that Forte does that better than Chris Johnson. Any added versatility is just a bonus. If a guy can contribute in the return game then that's great. Right now on the roster we have a top 10 punt return man in terms of yards per return, and we very well may draft a CB who can contribute in the return game as well. Every player we draft doesn't need to have the ability to contribute in 5 different ways, sometimes you just need a player who can play his position.

A players value to the team comes from how much his play aides in the teams success. And someone can do that from operating in one role just as well as he can do it operating in two roles.

Patrick Crayton is a starting WR and out punt returner, does that make him more valuable than Terrell Owens, who just plays WR? Does it make him more valuable than T.J. Housmanzadah who's also a #2 WR but is solely limited to that role? Versatility does not define value.

Obv you want your RB to be able to run the ball i feel that chris Johnson was able to display his running abilities his senior season same as Matt Forte matte forte had almost 700 more rushing yards than Chris Johnson also with 120 more attempts. You said be4 that CJ fumbled in his bowl game i checked his stats i don't see that. Chris John average 6.0 ypa opposed to forte 5.9. 17 rushing TD's to his 23. Then you look at reciving 32 for 282 for Forte and for Johnson 37 for 528 yards 5 more catches for 200 more yards thats a big disaprity which says 2 me CJ makes plays in the open field. Even though Forte put up these monster numbers he was the only option his team had and they didn't make it to a bowl game. 6 reciving TD's to forte's Zero. Then KR add that in theres no compersion. Size advatange goes to Forte. Weight also Forte Speed CJ it's un matched by any1 in this draft. So size/height, rushing yards go to forte. Speed all-purpose yards reciving yards go to CJ. The combine will either help or hurt these guys but CJ is defintley a better prospect because if he isn't the best runner you can still put him on special teams Look at guys like Josh Cribss, Devin Hester Reggie Bush Maurice Jones Drew.

This is a draft discussion not a discussion on players who have played if you want me to look at it like these guys coming out of College i would say TO Crayton then TJ house. IF you want me to look to see how vaulabe they are now its TO TJ house then Crayton. Its hard to replace 112 catches. However if CJ isn't in Cinnci next year TJ house numbers are going to be way different.

 

[masomenos]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=273570151&period=4

2nd and 5 at ECU 44
"Chris Johnson rush for 3 yards, fumbled at the ECaro 47, recovered by Marty Tadman for a TOUCHDOWN."

It doesn't make any sense to criticize Forte for not going to a bowl game when you also say he's the only threat on his team. If he's the only threat on his team don't you think teams might be stacking 8-9 guys in the box to stop him? How exactly did this lone weapon fare in his teams close losses?

Loss 20-17: 32 carries 202 yards 2 TD, 5 catches 45 yards
Loss 26-21: 32 carries 209 yards 1 TD, 4 catches 36 yards
Loss 28-71: 44 carries 278 yards 2 TD, 2 catches 15 yards

If he gets a little help in those games then his team wins 7 games instead of 4, and is quite possible in one of the early bowls.

Chris Johnson did have a very productive senior season, but I don't think that production always translates into ability at the position. Players who have unreal speed, like Johnson, are often able to produce simply because they're so much more athletic than the competition. Their speed takes advantage of lower competition that isn't going to be there in the pros (or at least wont be there as often). Johnson is a fast guy who bounces a lot of his runs to the outside and is a poor blocker. What kind of dimension does that give us if he's in the game? Watch outside runs and watch the flats for swing passes, pretty easy to cover. And like I said, as far as the return game goes, it's likely that we'll be drafting a CB in the first who may also have the same return ability.

In response to the second part of your post: It doesn't matter if the players are in college or in the pros when you're talking about versatility defining a players value. And thats the point, why do you rank Crayton behind T.J. now even though Crayton is more versatile?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

mason, you're forgetting that teams value pro potential very highly, which is why a more explosive back tends to get rated higher

but I like Forte

and don't forget that some coaches like to have packages that require a different back, so there might be a package in Jason Garrett's offense, which calls for a back who can get outside on a D, but Garrett is a Norv Turner guy, and he's mentioned that he would like to get a power-running game in Dallas w/ the FB, so we could very well be targeting a more consistent back than the home-run hitter

 

[masomenos]

mason, you're forgetting that teams value pro potential very highly, which is why a more explosive back tends to get rated higher

but I like Forte

and don't forget that some coaches like to have packages that require a different back, so there might be a package in Jason Garrett's offense, which calls for a back who can get outside on a D, but Garrett is a Norv Turner guy, and he's mentioned that he would like to get a power-running game in Dallas w/ the FB, so we could very well be targeting a more consistent back than the home-run hitter

I don't think that "pro potential" means the player has to be out of this world fast. Look at the RBs since 1999 who have ran below 4.4, excluding last years draft. I choose this number because it's reported Johnson runs in the sub 4.3 range so, it fits his profile.

1999
Jay Hinton
Edgerrin James

2000
Ronald Jean

2001
Bo Carrol
Derrick Blaylock
Michael Bennett

2002
Allan Amundson
Justin Fargas

2004
Tatum Bell
Kevin Jones

2005
Howard Jackson

2006
Reggie Bush
Maurice Jones-Drew
Jerad Estus

Not the best list is it? You have 3 guys who lived up to their "pro potential" in MoJo Drew, Reggie Bush and Edge. And really Bush hasn't even proved he can be a RB in the NFL to this point. You have Fargas who's coming off of a big year, but if Fargas was in the draft this year I doubt people would be clamoring for us to draft him. The three guys who you can make a case for their speed translating into success in the NFL, all of them went to major D1 schools, not smaller schools like East Carolina.

I could be totally off base with Chris Johnson, and I'll be the first to admit if I am, but I think that whatever team drafts him in the late first or early second will wind up being disappointed. I hope we're not that team. Look how effective resident blazer Tyson Thompson has been, can you imagine if we spent a first round pick on that? Goodness.

I understand the need of having a back who can give the D a different look, but I don't think that you need to spend a first round pick on that guy. Hell, draft a speedster on day two if that's what he's going to be used for. I'd be all far a consistent power running attack though, say we drafted Schmitt and Forte (unlikely, but just go with it) and we still have Barber, I can't imagine many teams holding up to that constant force.

Beware of speed though, it's a seductress that will leave you with a broken heart.

 

[dmoore]

My opinion on the matter is that I don't want a RB. I want a guy who's just an offensive weapon. A guy you can use in different roles and that opponents have to game plan against. I want a poor mans reggie bush or brian westbrook. I value speed and versitility over durability because we already have a pro-bowl running back. I'm not sure who the guy I think we should get is yet, but I do like Felix and what I've heard of Johnson. I'm not entirely sold on the fact that we need to draft one early either. I want a guy who gets 10-15 touches a game, and is a threat to take any one of them the distance. I really just want a weapon that Garrett can play around with, as I feel that we have most of our bases covered.

Forte does sound like a good player. I admittedly haven't seen him play this season. I'd welcome him on the team if he fills that role. I just don't think we need to draft a guy that's an everydown, 20 carry back.

 

[Biggems]

I like my mock

:-D

I would super ecstatic if we got Johnson, Forte, and Schmitt.

Our backfield would be awesome: MB3, Johnson, Forte, Schmitt, Cricket

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Not the best list is it? You have 3 guys who lived up to their "pro potential" in MoJo Drew, Reggie Bush and Edge. And really Bush hasn't even proved he can be a RB in the NFL to this point. You have Fargas who's coming off of a big year, but if Fargas was in the draft this year I doubt people would be clamoring for us to draft him. The three guys who you can make a case for their speed translating into success in the NFL, all of them went to major D1 schools, not smaller schools like East Carolina.

I could be totally off base with Chris Johnson, and I'll be the first to admit if I am, but I think that whatever team drafts him in the late first or early second will wind up being disappointed. I hope we're not that team. Look how effective resident blazer Tyson Thompson has been, can you imagine if we spent a first round pick on that? Goodness.

I understand the need of having a back who can give the D a different look, but I don't think that you need to spend a first round pick on that guy. Hell, draft a speedster on day two if that's what he's going to be used for. I'd be all far a consistent power running attack though, say we drafted Schmitt and Forte (unlikely, but just go with it) and we still have Barber, I can't imagine many teams holding up to that constant force.

Beware of speed though, it's a seductress that will leave you with a broken heart.

I think your confused a little bit. The fact that CJ is projecting so high where as TT went undrafted makes a big difference. Year consitent power running attack like in the playoffs against the giants. Your looking at this guys like hes a TT when i see MJD and how he could be like him. Speed kills this is football not track your right on that but the stuff this guy does is simply amazing.

He did fumble when i looked at his stats on ESPN.com they didn't show any fumbles in his stats but if you scroll down after they scored the TD who returned the kick 60 yards and put them in FG range. Him being around lesser talent is bad but what he did agianst boise state helps his case a lot. If the speed of the nfl catches up to CJ what is it going to do to Forte ?

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't think that "pro potential" means the player has to be out of this world fast. Look at the RBs since 1999 who have ran below 4.4, excluding last years draft. I choose this number because it's reported Johnson runs in the sub 4.3 range so, it fits his profile.

1999
Jay Hinton
Edgerrin James

2000
Ronald Jean

2001
Bo Carrol
Derrick Blaylock
Michael Bennett

2002
Allan Amundson
Justin Fargas

2004
Tatum Bell
Kevin Jones

2005
Howard Jackson

2006
Reggie Bush
Maurice Jones-Drew
Jerad Estus

Not the best list is it? You have 3 guys who lived up to their "pro potential" in MoJo Drew, Reggie Bush and Edge. And really Bush hasn't even proved he can be a RB in the NFL to this point. You have Fargas who's coming off of a big year, but if Fargas was in the draft this year I doubt people would be clamoring for us to draft him. The three guys who you can make a case for their speed translating into success in the NFL, all of them went to major D1 schools, not smaller schools like East Carolina.

I could be totally off base with Chris Johnson, and I'll be the first to admit if I am, but I think that whatever team drafts him in the late first or early second will wind up being disappointed. I hope we're not that team. Look how effective resident blazer Tyson Thompson has been, can you imagine if we spent a first round pick on that? Goodness.

I understand the need of having a back who can give the D a different look, but I don't think that you need to spend a first round pick on that guy. Hell, draft a speedster on day two if that's what he's going to be used for. I'd be all far a consistent power running attack though, say we drafted Schmitt and Forte (unlikely, but just go with it) and we still have Barber, I can't imagine many teams holding up to that constant force.

Beware of speed though, it's a seductress that will leave you with a broken heart.

Love reading your stuff. Where do you get all this information from?

 

[masomenos]

Love reading your stuff. Where do you get all this information from?

Thanks!

You know, mostly I just make stuff up and hope people believe it.
But seriously, most of my information comes from NFLDraftScout.com, it's a terrific website. I think it's like 19.99 a year or something, but they have all kinds of information you don't find anywhere else. Then a lot of times I'll also pull info from the standard places like ESPN.

 

[masomenos]

I think your confused a little bit. The fact that CJ is projecting so high where as TT went undrafted makes a big difference. Year consitent power running attack like in the playoffs against the giants. Your looking at this guys like hes a TT when i see MJD and how he could be like him. Speed kills this is football not track your right on that but the stuff this guy does is simply amazing.

He did fumble when i looked at his stats on ESPN.com they didn't show any fumbles in his stats but if you scroll down after they scored the TD who returned the kick 60 yards and put them in FG range. Him being around lesser talent is bad but what he did agianst boise state helps his case a lotIf the speed of the nfl catches up to CJ what is it going to do to Forte ?

You know, I have no doubt that CJ will be better than Tyson Thompson. I was just using him as a comparison to show that just because you're faster than everyone doesn't mean you'll cut it in the NFL. I just am not convinced that Johnson has the vision to cut it in the NFL, I think he'll end up bouncing most of his runs to the outside. You're right about "speed kills" but if you don't have the vision to run where the hole is/is going to be then all you do is race into the backs of your lineman.

I don't think Johnson really compares to Maurice Jones Drew at all, other than them both being fast. MJD has better vision and is a much more physical player in both running and blocking. If we could get a guy like him then I'd be all for it, but I don't see much of anything beyond speed for Johnson. I understand he's a great return man, but why can't we just have the CB we draft take on those duties?

I'd hate to draft a guy like CJ and then have Marion Barber get hurt. I'd have no confidence at all that we'd be able to have a consistent running game. That's why I don't understand this "compliment" business, our backups need to be able to preform in the same capacity that our starters do because our starters obviously fit our style of play. Now that's not to say they have to play as well as them, that'd be an unrealistic expectation, but it is to say that they need to be able to fill the role in a similar way.

Draft a speed back later on, a guy like Anthony Alridge from Houston (1597 yards, 6.2 YPC, 14 TD, 42 catches 428 receiving yards, 6 TDs). Whats the different between him an CJ? Size and about 6 rounds in the draft. Alridge probably doesnt have the bulk to stand up being a big contributer on offense outside of the occasional screen pass, but he could be a terrific return man.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

You know, I have no doubt that CJ will be better than Tyson Thompson. I was just using him as a comparison to show that just because you're faster than everyone doesn't mean you'll cut it in the NFL. I just am not convinced that Johnson has the vision to cut it in the NFL, I think he'll end up bouncing most of his runs to the outside. You're right about "speed kills" but if you don't have the vision to run where the hole is/is going to be then all you do is race into the backs of your lineman.

I don't think Johnson really compares to Maurice Jones Drew at all, other than them both being fast. MJD has better vision and is a much more physical player in both running and blocking. If we could get a guy like him then I'd be all for it, but I don't see much of anything beyond speed for Johnson. I understand he's a great return man, but why can't we just have the CB we draft take on those duties?

I'd hate to draft a guy like CJ and then have Marion Barber get hurt. I'd have no confidence at all that we'd be able to have a consistent running game. That's why I don't understand this "compliment" business, our backups need to be able to preform in the same capacity that our starters do because our starters obviously fit our style of play. Now that's not to say they have to play as well as them, that'd be an unrealistic expectation, but it is to say that they need to be able to fill the role in a similar way.

Draft a speed back later on, a guy like Anthony Alridge from Houston (1597 yards, 6.2 YPC, 14 TD, 42 catches 428 receiving yards, 6 TDs). Whats the different between him an CJ? Size and about 6 rounds in the draft. Alridge probably doesnt have the bulk to stand up being a big contributer on offense outside of the occasional screen pass, but he could be a terrific return man.

Houston had some players last year I'm not denying that but how can you knock CJ vision when he is a KR that i don't understand. Wouldn't that give him better vision? You keep talking about how we need a consistent running game and how our back up should/ shouldn't be capable and that the personal we have now fits our play style. The reason why i like CJ so much is because i believe he is a better fit than MB3 because he is an instant match up problem. You can't have a LB cover him and he will cause match up problems for any team going up against him a safety can't cover him either you need to use a CB. The fact that CJ can take it to the house on any giving play and has big play ability written all over him. Well if you look at my mock Leodis Mckelvin is my pick for us at CB and he can return kicks and play CB at the same time.

The reason we go high with a RB is because JJ will be gone and MB3 can't carry the load the whole game and hasn't been a featured back since his school the fact the league is shifting to a dual RB system all factors in. IF MB3 got 300 carries in a season he would prob never be able to play again. CJ doesn't need to touch the ball a lot and is a constant threat to score a TD every time he touches the ball and is a headache for an opposing defensive coordinator. If you don't trust CJ to be a solid back up why would you trust Anthony Alridge? Alrdige needs to hit the weight room and if CJ gets to 210 215 he will be better. You can teach blocking you can't teach speed.

 

[masomenos]

First, vision as a KR is different than vision as a RB. Second, I'm not entirely convinced that Johnson has great kick return vision, I think he may just be really fast so he's able to get away with it against non NFL caliber competition. It sounds like you're wanting to bring in CJ as a replacement for MB3, is that what you mean when you say he's a better fit? Would you want to see CJ getting the majority of the touches? You talk about CJ being able to score from anywhere on the field at any time, but that's considerably harder in the NFL.

Marion Barbers long run of the season was 54 yards. The super explosive MJDs longest was 57, LTs was 49, Leon Washingtons was 49.

Westbrook? 36 yards.
Sproles? 34 yards.
Fast Willie Parker? 32 yards.
Joseph Addai? 23 yards.

Just because your explosively fast doesn't mean you'll be tearing off consistent 50 yard plays in the NFL. Well, he could still be an explosive receiver, you argue. Yeah well, how many passes he gonna catch? 20? 30 at the most?

LT caught 60 passes and his longest was 36 yards. Westbrook caught 90 and had one play over 50 yards, two over 40 yards, and 3 of 30 or more. Parkers long was 22. MJDs was 43.

Is that enough of an impact to spend a first round pick on? Unless you think that CJ outclasses all of those guys, and is in that same stratosphere as Adrian Peterson Super Rookie, then the answer is no.

Barber does need help, sure, but that doesn't have to come from a speedster. I think we found Barber in the 4th round, why can't we find his running mate outside of the first round as well? As the stats above showed, just being explosive doesn't mean that you're a constant threat to score from anywhere on the field. CJ would need to get a considerable amount of touches to be any sort of a threat, and a lot of his touches would end up being for negligible gains since he so constantly just forces runs outside and relys on his speed. I was proposing Aldridge as a 3rd back, not a second guy. Someone who would take on a similar role to the one you're proposing for Johnson. He would be used in the passing game and in the return game and would be a threat everytime he touched the ball. He would also be a late round pick instead of a first round pick, and we could pick up someone who's a more complete RB like Forte, or maybe someone in FA, to share the load with Barber.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't think that "pro potential" means the player has to be out of this world fast. Look at the RBs since 1999 who have ran below 4.4, excluding last years draft. I choose this number because it's reported Johnson runs in the sub 4.3 range so, it fits his profile.

1999
Jay Hinton
Edgerrin James

2000
Ronald Jean

2001
Bo Carrol
Derrick Blaylock
Michael Bennett

2002
Allan Amundson
Justin Fargas

2004
Tatum Bell
Kevin Jones

2005
Howard Jackson

2006
Reggie Bush
Maurice Jones-Drew
Jerad Estus

Not the best list is it? You have 3 guys who lived up to their "pro potential" in MoJo Drew, Reggie Bush and Edge. And really Bush hasn't even proved he can be a RB in the NFL to this point. You have Fargas who's coming off of a big year, but if Fargas was in the draft this year I doubt people would be clamoring for us to draft him. The three guys who you can make a case for their speed translating into success in the NFL, all of them went to major D1 schools, not smaller schools like East Carolina.

I could be totally off base with Chris Johnson, and I'll be the first to admit if I am, but I think that whatever team drafts him in the late first or early second will wind up being disappointed. I hope we're not that team. Look how effective resident blazer Tyson Thompson has been, can you imagine if we spent a first round pick on that? Goodness.

I understand the need of having a back who can give the D a different look, but I don't think that you need to spend a first round pick on that guy. Hell, draft a speedster on day two if that's what he's going to be used for. I'd be all far a consistent power running attack though, say we drafted Schmitt and Forte (unlikely, but just go with it) and we still have Barber, I can't imagine many teams holding up to that constant force.

Beware of speed though, it's a seductress that will leave you with a broken heart.

good stuff, but the write up on Johnson is that he possesses a little more than just pure speed, he possesses vision, balance, good agility and the ability to slide across the LOS to find the hole, plus he's a heck of a receiver

you could go any number of ways at RB, hell, if all we end up doing is taking a guy like Cal's Justin Forsett in the 3rd, can't go wrong there, but we need to infuse some more speed into this offense, a good place to start would be at RB, and while Bush hasn't lived up to the hype, him and Deuce McCallister presented quite the tandem last year

we could switch the roles as well, get a speed guy early and use a latter round pick on a between the tackles guy, a guy like Thomas Brown

 

[masomenos]

Yeah, I've seen the write-ups on Johnson, but I just don't see it with my own eyes. I think that at the the college/C-USA level that his speed gives it the illusion that he has good vision. It's the Reggie Bush effect. Their speed destroys angles so quickly that it looks like they're making all the right moves, but the fact of the matter is that they're just racing ahead and using their speed to pull away from people. That just doesn't fly in the NFL.

I do think that Johnson can make a big impact for a team as a pass receiver, but I don't think that we are in the market for that type of player. I don't think he's going to be the same type of RB in the open field as Westbrook or Bush because I don't see a whole lot of "wiggle" in him, but if he gets a seam in the open field then he could have the same kind of big play potential.

It's not that I'm entirely against Johnson, it's just that I think the first round is too early. If he fell to us in the second then I'd be on board, but in the capacity that I see Johnson filling I don't think I could justify a first round pick. If his main role in our offense was catching balls out of the backfield then I still only think he'd get about 25 catches this year. In that case he'd have to make a huge impact in the return game in order for me to justify a first round pick.

And, if his role is mainly that as a return man/pass receiver then we can fill that with a later round pick and concentrate on getting an actual back up RB in FA or earlier on in the draft. Like you said, we could switch it up and get a guy like Johnson first, and between the tackles guy later, but what happens if Barber gets hurt? If my concerns about Johnsons ability to produce while running the ball turn out to be true then you're stuck with a 7th round pick as your main work horse.

To me a player like Johnson seems like a luxury pick, and I don't think we have quite the depth to be doing that at this point.

 

[theogt]

Yeah, I've seen the write-ups on Johnson, but I just don't see it with my own eyes.

Agreed.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

First, vision as a KR is different than vision as a RB. Second, I'm not entirely convinced that Johnson has great kick return vision, I think he may just be really fast so he's able to get away with it against non NFL caliber competition. It sounds like you're wanting to bring in CJ as a replacement for MB3, is that what you mean when you say he's a better fit? Would you want to see CJ getting the majority of the touches? You talk about CJ being able to score from anywhere on the field at any time, but that's considerably harder in the NFL.

Marion Barbers long run of the season was 54 yards. The super explosive MJDs longest was 57, LTs was 49, Leon Washingtons was 49.

Westbrook? 36 yards.
Sproles? 34 yards.
Fast Willie Parker? 32 yards.
Joseph Addai? 23 yards.

Just because your explosively fast doesn't mean you'll be tearing off consistent 50 yard plays in the NFL. Well, he could still be an explosive receiver, you argue. Yeah well, how many passes he gonna catch? 20? 30 at the most?

LT caught 60 passes and his longest was 36 yards. Westbrook caught 90 and had one play over 50 yards, two over 40 yards, and 3 of 30 or more. Parkers long was 22. MJDs was 43.

Is that enough of an impact to spend a first round pick on? Unless you think that CJ outclasses all of those guys, and is in that same stratosphere as Adrian Peterson Super Rookie, then the answer is no.

Barber does need help, sure, but that doesn't have to come from a speedster. I think we found Barber in the 4th round, why can't we find his running mate outside of the first round as well? As the stats above showed, just being explosive doesn't mean that you're a constant threat to score from anywhere on the field. CJ would need to get a considerable amount of touches to be any sort of a threat, and a lot of his touches would end up being for negligible gains since he so constantly just forces runs outside and relys on his speed. I was proposing Aldridge as a 3rd back, not a second guy. Someone who would take on a similar role to the one you're proposing for Johnson. He would be used in the passing game and in the return game and would be a threat everytime he touched the ball. He would also be a late round pick instead of a first round pick, and we could pick up someone who's a more complete RB like Forte, or maybe someone in FA, to share the load with Barber.

MJD 90 yard Kick return
All of them had more rushing yards than MB3 except sproles and stop drinking the kool-aid when it comes to MB3 and comparing him to the top RB's in the league because he doesn't compare.

I am well aware that there is talented players outside of the first round but when it comes to this guys speed its worth the 1st round pick. It doesn't make since for you to be so opposed to this guy being picked in the first round. Your right we could go some where else with the pick but why would we ? I am still not believing the fact that the man is a KR but you say he has no vision. Reggie bush not living up to his potential ? He played half of this season hurt and last season had 77 catches a punt return and his rushing yards were low but that was expected. Man this is how i seee CJ if we can waste a 1st round pick on Carp, Spears. Then this will be a good pick up.

Wait till later right how are players like Skyler Green doing for us.......

 

[ZeroClub]

Is the fact that McFadden played in the SEC while Forte played in C-USA enough to warrant the huge difference in salary?

Yup. That and the expected disparity in their combine numbers.