Twitter: Competition Committee says Dez caught it **merged**

[BlindFaith]

The play against the Eagles was used to show that you can't just assume Dez would have fallen if Shields hadn't tripped him.

That has nothing to do with Item 1.

What it means is that even IF Shields inadvertently tripped him that it has nothing to do with the play at all. I made it in red this time so maybe you'll read it.

Item 1: Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

 

[percyhoward]

~Banging my head

You tell me. This was your quote.
"But those aren't the questions to ask. The question is:

Did he go to the ground before he completed the catch process?.

"In the act of catching a pass" MEANS "before completing the catch process."

There is absolutely no difference.

 

[blindzebra]

Did they what?

How intelligent who were? Nah, my daughter would get it. She can read and doesn't believe in some big NFL wide conspiracy.

Ignoring and dodging is all you do...except name calling and outright lying about what people post, but then again that is how you perform the above.

 

[BlindFaith]

Then why is it headed under acts common to the game? Explain that oh rule book expert?

So they can clarify what exact act common to the game can be performed while a player is going to the ground. So they define a time plus lunge.

8.12 and 8.13 then go on to clarify what that time element is. BRACE plus lunge and REGAIN BALANCE plus lunge.

 

[blindzebra]

So they can clarify what exact act common to the game can be performed while a player is going to the ground. So they define a time plus lunge.

8.12 and 8.13 then go on to clarify what that time element is. BRACE plus lunge and REGAIN BALANCE plus lunge.

Clarify by using acts not included under acts common to the game. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

 

[BlindFaith]

"In the act of catching a pass" MEANS "before completing the catch process."

There is absolutely no difference.

Spin, spin just trying to win.

Here is what you said since you can't remember from 15 minutes ago.

But those aren't the questions to ask. The question is:

Did he go to the ground before he completed the catch process?

Why is the key question did he go to the ground before he completed the catch process? When it has absolutely nothing to do with the rule. Its if he goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass.

 

[BlindFaith]

Clarify by using acts not included under acts common to the game. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

You kind of miss the point of clarifying.

And I thought you said that not all acts were added into the actual rule itself. Is not regaining balance or bracing acts common to the game? They didn't add in there, if the player pulls out a sharpie on his way to the ground then its a catch.

 

[percyhoward]

What it means is that even IF Shields inadvertently tripped him that it has nothing to do with the play at all.

I was only using the play against the Eagles as it relates to how upright Dez was. Again, there is no connection between this and Item 1 which, I am fully aware, says that contact does not matter.

 

[percyhoward]

Why is the key question did he go to the ground before he completed the catch process? When it has absolutely nothing to do with the rule. Its if he goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass.

We will have to take this slowly.

What necessary part of catching a pass would NOT be a part of the catch process?

 

[BlindFaith]

We will have to take this slowly.

What necessary part of catching a pass would NOT be a part of the catch process?

I can keep up. Dont worry about that. Just make a point.
And what you just asked is ridiculous.

But just as I played along with your hypotheticals, I'll try to make sense of it.

The only part that would be unnecessary, if a player wasnt going to the ground, would be to maintain possession through contacting the ground.

 

[percyhoward]

I can keep up. Dont worry about that. Just make a point.
And what you just asked is ridiculous.

But just as I played along with your hypotheticals, I'll try to make sense of it.

The only part that would be unnecessary, if a player wasnt going to the ground, would be to maintain possession through contacting the ground.

So again I ask, what's the difference between the catch process and the act of catching a pass?

Before, you tried to say "in the act of catching a pass" and "before completing the catch process" weren't the same thing.

 

[MarcusRock]

When he caught the ball has nothing to do with what he looks like when he's falling. People were claiming it was obvious that he was falling before Shields tripped him, but he was actually more upright at that point than he was on the play where he scored standing up.

Not that it mattered whether he was falling or not on the catch that was overturned anyway. It was just to show people that there's no way they can conclude he would have fallen without the contact.

Then you'd have to use a similar looking play at least where he jumps in similar fashion. Here, I have one with the exact same play call and where he experiences no contact from the DB whatsoever. Could be wrong, but it looked to me like he fell here.

 

[BlindFaith]

So again I ask, what's the difference between the catch process and the act of catching a pass?

Before, you tried to say "in the act of catching a pass" and "before completing the catch process" weren't the same thing.

Sorry, I was misunderstanding your original point.

There is no difference.

And yes, the key question is
What act can be performed before hitting the ground for a player going to the ground.

This goes back to
AR 15 which is time plus lunge
8.12 which is brace plus lunge
8.13 which is regain balance plus lunge

 

[percyhoward]

Could be wrong, but it looked to me like he fell here.

Impossible to say for sure without media confirmation.

 

[BlindFaith]

Impossible to say for sure without media confirmation.

Guess you never watched it the other 4 or 5 times it was posted in the other thread.

 

[percyhoward]

And yes, the key question is
What act can be performed before hitting the ground for a player going to the ground?

Now, yes. But in 2014 it was just "What act completed the catch process?"

There was no rule that said a player had to be upright in order to complete the catch process in 2014. "Upright long enough" didn't enter the picture until 2015.

This goes back to
AR 15 which is time plus lunge
8.12 which is brace plus lunge
8.13 which is regain balance plus lunge

Besides those three scenarios from the case book, you've also got the rule book, and Blandino's own explanations. For example, we know reaching for the goal line was an act common to the game that completed the catch process.

 

[percyhoward]

Guess you never watched it the other 4 or 5 times it was posted in the other thread.

That was an inside joke, I guess.

 

[BlindFaith]

Now, yes. But in 2014 it was just "What act completed the catch process?"

There was no rule that said a player had to be upright in order to complete the catch process in 2014. "Upright long enough" didn't enter the picture until 2015.


Besides those three scenarios from the case book, you've also got the rule book, and Blandino's own explanations. For example, we know reaching for the goal line was an act common to the game that completed the catch process.

No. The acts are defined as time plus lunge, brace plus lunge, regain balance plus lunge.

You're incorrectly assuming that ANY act could be performed.

And Blandino specifically says gather in one of the videos. Or that he didn't complete a proper reach. Or that his momentum was taking him to the ground.

If you want to discuss each and every video again, start posting them again and we'll easily explain them. Like we did time and time again.

The only way this gets resolved is to understand what acts are allowed. Which is why none of you ever answer
1. Why in AR 15 it only says time plus lunge and not just perform any act
2. Why are 8.12 and 8.13 even in there?
3. If 8.12 and 8.13 are just examples, then why are those examples both defining what the time element is in AR 15? Because they all refer to some act plus lunge
4. If any act can be performed while going to the ground, why isn't there one example in a case play saying so for a player going to the ground

I would love for you to finally answer those questions.

 

[BlindFaith]

That was an inside joke, I guess.

Sorry, I thought it was in reference to the big error icon. At least that's what I see. No video.

 

[blindzebra]

No. The acts are defined as time plus lunge, brace plus lunge, regain balance plus lunge.

You're incorrectly assuming that ANY act could be performed.

And Blandino specifically says gather in one of the videos. Or that he didn't complete a proper reach. Or that his momentum was taking him to the ground.

If you want to discuss each and every video again, start posting them again and we'll easily explain them. Like we did time and time again.

The only way this gets resolved is to understand what acts are allowed. Which is why none of you ever answer
1. Why in AR 15 it only says time plus lunge and not just perform any act
2. Why are 8.12 and 8.13 even in there?
3. If 8.12 and 8.13 are just examples, then why are those examples both defining what the time element is in AR 15? Because they all refer to some act plus lunge
4. If any act can be performed while going to the ground, why isn't there one example in a case play saying so for a player going to the ground

I would love for you to finally answer those questions.

So what makes a lunge special? If it truly the only thing then why is it? Why is it not in the rules why?

An act common to the game makes the case plays and the rule make sense. The written rule and the outcome connect. Perform an act complete 8.1.3 and Item 1 goes away. There is nothing in the written rules that support your theory.