Twitter: Competition Committee says Dez caught it **merged**

BlindFaith

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So what makes a lunge special? If it truly the only thing then why is it? Why is it not in the rules why?

An act common to the game makes the case plays and the rule make sense. The written rule and the outcome connect. Perform an act complete 8.1.3 and Item 1 goes away. There is nothing in the written rules that support your theory.
We've explained this before. The NFL choose that language. I didnt. And I didn't right the rules. They did.

So all I can do is fit the pieces together. Its all any off us can do.

So why the lunge? The lunge is used to verify that the player had regained balance. And also why they say it's not part of the catch process. A lunge also is the transition to the ground from a player who had interrupted the fall.

Now, AR 15 only says time plus lunge. And I've said this before, if 8.12 and 8.13 were not in the rules you would have a much stronger argument. Time would be very nebulous.

That's why they included 8.12 and 8.13. Two specific case plays to demonstrate what that time element is. 8.12 is brace plus the same lunge and 8.13 is regain balance plus the same lunge.

Two very specific examples talking about a very specific act - interrupting the fall or gathering as Blandino calls it.

Now, if any act can be performed while falling, why couldn't they have at least 1 example for that? And why doesn't AR 15 just say any act in the case play?

They are very specific in what they included. The case we make is based on what is in the rules.

The case you are trying to make involves assumption that ANY act can be performed. Which isn't described in the rules or case play for a player going to the ground.

Yes, some acts are described for a player who is not going to the ground. But they don't apply to a player who is going to the ground. At least none of them are used in any case play related to going to the ground.

This is what was poorly communicated by Blandino. He touched on certain aspects in various explanations, but the only one that clearly explains it is the one where he talks about the player having to gather themselves.
 

Kevinicus

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Hahaha. I asked you for additional support for the rule "changing" as you've stated. What is this nonsense? The best part is this quote from the 2nd article: "I guess I would agree that he isn’t a runner in the above clip ..." Wait, what? The author is basically saying that Dez should have been subject to going to the ground then rants on about being confused by the rule. LOL. Maybe I should have asked for "serious" media support, especially since this article starts off with an expletive, demonstrating this outfit's journalistic excellence, no doubt.

This is almost as good as percy posting that link to a "similar" play where Dez was "almost" going to the ground, except he caught the ball on his feet running. LOL. "No" is an answer too, you know? Geez.

You are absurd to the nth degree. I gave you examples of articles talking about the Dez play and wrong ruling (which you also whined about right before I posted that) as well as someone criticizing the very real changes. Both articles do significantly more "analysis" than the parrot jobs you linked to, and then you complain about them being "serious." You don't like what they say, so they aren't good enough. Yet the slop you post is somehow "additional support." This is trolling behavior you're engaged in.
 

BlindFaith

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You are absurd to the nth degree. I gave you examples of articles talking about the Dez play and wrong ruling (which you also whined about right before I posted that) as well as someone criticizing the very real changes. Both articles do significantly more "analysis" than the parrot jobs you linked to, and then you complain about them being "serious." You don't like what they say, so they aren't good enough. Yet the slop you post is somehow "additional support." This is trolling behavior you're engaged in.
How bout one within the week from the competition committee. Or are they parrots too? Or is this part of the conspiracy? Or do they just don't know the rules?
https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/amp.businessinsider.com/the-dez-bryant-catch-rule-nfl-2018-2
 

blindzebra

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We've explained this before. The NFL choose that language. I didnt. And I didn't right the rules. They did.

So all I can do is fit the pieces together. Its all any off us can do.

So why the lunge? The lunge is used to verify that the player had regained balance. And also why they say it's not part of the catch process. A lunge also is the transition to the ground from a player who had interrupted the fall.

Now, AR 15 only says time plus lunge. And I've said this before, if 8.12 and 8.13 were not in the rules you would have a much stronger argument. Time would be very nebulous.

That's why they included 8.12 and 8.13. Two specific case plays to demonstrate what that time element is. 8.12 is brace plus the same lunge and 8.13 is regain balance plus the same lunge.

Two very specific examples talking about a very specific act - interrupting the fall or gathering as Blandino calls it.

Now, if any act can be performed while falling, why couldn't they have at least 1 example for that? And why doesn't AR 15 just say any act in the case play?

They are very specific in what they included. The case we make is based on what is in the rules.

The case you are trying to make involves assumption that ANY act can be performed. Which isn't described in the rules or case play for a player going to the ground.

Yes, some acts are described for a player who is not going to the ground. But they don't apply to a player who is going to the ground. At least none of them are used in any case play related to going to the ground.

This is what was poorly communicated by Blandino. He touched on certain aspects in various explanations, but the only one that clearly explains it is the one where he talks about the player having to gather themselves.
I know I have explained this before but it obviously has not sunk in. A lunge is not part of the catch process because that process is control and two feet, anything else is an act common to the game and makes you a runner. You'd think if you knew as much about the rules as you claim that something that simple should be obvious.

Ah, yes when Blandino says something that fits he is golden, when it doesn't he is a babbling idiot. How convenient.
 

BlindFaith

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I know I have explained this before but it obviously has not sunk in. A lunge is not part of the catch process because that process is control and two feet, anything else is an act common to the game and makes you a runner. You'd think if you knew as much about the rules as you claim that something that simple should be obvious.

Ah, yes when Blandino says something that fits he is golden, when it doesn't he is a babbling idiot. How convenient.
See above
 

blindzebra

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See above
Why? It is just the same misinterpretation of the rules you have been posting for days.

Give me an actual rule citation and I will acknowledge it. But all you are feeding me is conjecture without rule support and that don't cut it.
 

percyhoward

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No. The acts are defined as time plus lunge, brace plus lunge, regain balance plus lunge.
You're describing the three case book scenarios here -- or at least your interpretation of them. There's also the actual rules in the rule book, and the discussion of those rules in official explanations of similar plays over the years.

You're incorrectly assuming that ANY act could be performed.
If there indeed were certain acts that did not qualify, you'd think that it would have come up at least once prior to 2015. Has anyone produced a quote or posted an official explanation that said anything like "this is an act common to the game, but it does not complete the catch process?" Specifically, I'd like to see proof that a reach didn't qualify, as it was generally believed at the time that it did.

And Blandino specifically says gather in one of the videos. Or that he didn't complete a proper reach. Or that his momentum was taking him to the ground.
That's kind of a mishmash there. On the day of the game, he said the reach wasn't obvious enough (which didn't make much sense, because how did he see it?). Then the next day he changed his explanation to the lunge not being clear enough because Dez didn't gather himself first. He didn't say anything on the second day about the reach needing to be with two hands, which is also weird because you'd think he'd want to be consistent. Typically, the second day's explanation would just be a more in-depth version of the first day's. Here, it was a completely different explanation. Doesn't make sense.

If you want to discuss each and every video again, start posting them again and we'll easily explain them. Like we did time and time again.
My experience with the "Explaining the Calvin Johnson Rule" video is that people tend to watch it and impose their own explanations, as opposed to just listening to the lesson. It's better to look at a transcript. That way you're forced to focus on the message.

The only way this gets resolved is to understand what acts are allowed. Which is why none of you ever answer
1. Why in AR 15 it only says time plus lunge and not just perform any act
2. Why are 8.12 and 8.13 even in there?
3. If 8.12 and 8.13 are just examples, then why are those examples both defining what the time element is in AR 15? Because they all refer to some act plus lunge
4. If any act can be performed while going to the ground, why isn't there one example in a case play saying so for a player going to the ground

I would love for you to finally answer those questions.
1. Two-part answer
A The case book doesn't work like the rule book. A case play is supposed to be an example of a specific play. So it's one specific act that happened on that play, not a list of possible acts. "Any act" is something that would be in the rule book, which is more general and is supposed to apply to all kinds of plays.
B The lunge is the act common to the game. Maintaining control long enough to perform the lunge is what actually completed the catch process. That's the time element.
2. and 3. You could make the argument that whoever wrote the 8's saw "goes to the ground" as "starting to fall," and whoever wrote the 15 saw "goes to the ground" as meaning the same as it does Item 2 ("hitting the ground"). 15 is in line with the catch process and the way these kinds of plays were ruled up until 2015. The 8's sound more like they were anticipating "upright long enough" because they're concerned (obsessed?) with the player's balance.
4. See 1A. Remember that at the time, the catch process determined whether a player was going to the ground as a runner or receiver.
 

MarcusRock

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Impossible to say for sure without media confirmation.

Dang hosting sites, lol. Here's what I tried to post. It's a similar looking play, where Dez jumps in similar fashion. It's the exact same play call and where he experiences no contact from the DB whatsoever who whiffs on the play.

gtdz0tqth2g9kqg6g.jpg
 

BlindFaith

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I know I have explained this before but it obviously has not sunk in. A lunge is not part of the catch process because that process is control and two feet, anything else is an act common to the game and makes you a runner. You'd think if you knew as much about the rules as you claim that something that simple should be obvious.

Ah, yes when Blandino says something that fits he is golden, when it doesn't he is a babbling idiot. How convenient.
Answer my questions.
 

Kevinicus

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How bout one within the week from the competition committee. Or are they parrots too? Or is this part of the conspiracy? Or do they just don't know the rules?
https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/amp.businessinsider.com/the-dez-bryant-catch-rule-nfl-2018-2

Did you read this article? All it says is that they are thinking of changing the rule in the future. No idea why you posted this.
 

MarcusRock

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Sorry, I thought it was in reference to the big error icon. At least that's what I see. No video.

That's what I thought too because I saw the error icon myself. But I think he's referencing Kevin's tap dance which was a repeat of his own tap dance when I keep asking that question for which the answer is everything except what we know it to be, which is "no, we don't have additional support for our theory."
 

BlindFaith

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You're describing the three case book scenarios here -- or at least your interpretation of them. There's also the actual rules in the rule book, and the discussion of those rules in official explanations of similar plays over the years.


If there indeed were certain acts that did not qualify, you'd think that it would have come up at least once prior to 2015. Has anyone produced a quote or posted an official explanation that said anything like "this is an act common to the game, but it does not complete the catch process?" Specifically, I'd like to see proof that a reach didn't qualify, as it was generally believed at the time that it did.


That's kind of a mishmash there. On the day of the game, he said the reach wasn't obvious enough (which didn't make much sense, because how did he see it?). Then the next day he changed his explanation to the lunge not being clear enough because Dez didn't gather himself first. He didn't say anything on the second day about the reach needing to be with two hands, which is also weird because you'd think he'd want to be consistent. Typically, the second day's explanation would just be a more in-depth version of the first day's. Here, it was a completely different explanation. Doesn't make sense.


My experience with the "Explaining the Calvin Johnson Rule" video is that people tend to watch it and impose their own explanations, as opposed to just listening to the lesson. It's better to look at a transcript. That way you're forced to focus on the message.


1. Two-part answer
A The case book doesn't work like the rule book. A case play is supposed to be an example of a specific play. So it's one specific act that happened on that play, not a list of possible acts. "Any act" is something that would be in the rule book, which is more general and is supposed to apply to all kinds of plays.
B The lunge is the act common to the game. Maintaining control long enough to perform the lunge is what actually completed the catch process. That's the time element.
2. and 3. You could make the argument that whoever wrote the 8's saw "goes to the ground" as "starting to fall," and whoever wrote the 15 saw "goes to the ground" as meaning the same as it does Item 2 ("hitting the ground"). 15 is in line with the catch process and the way these kinds of plays were ruled up until 2015. The 8's sound more like they were anticipating "upright long enough" because they're concerned (obsessed?) with the player's balance.
4. See 1A. Remember that at the time, the catch process determined whether a player was going to the ground as a runner or receiver.
So you just come up with they didn't want to make the rule clear and left a bunch of stuff out. Gotcha.

And the lunge is clearly stated as not being part of the process. Time completes the act. Lunge demonstrates that time happened. So what is time? How much time? And what time things can then be followed up by a lunge.
 

Kevinicus

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blindzebra

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Answer my questions.
I have answered yours on numerous occasions, you just ignore the facts.

I have explained the procedures officials use to learn and apply rules.
I have explained how case plays work, and that the case book cannot include every possible scenario, and they don't need to if you connect rule to case play.
I have repeated explained the catch process and how Item 1 fits within it.
I have supplied rule citations to back up my interpretation of the case plays, while you attempt to use the case play to support the case play.
 

Kevinicus

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That's what I thought too because I saw the error icon myself. But I think he's referencing Kevin's tap dance which was a repeat of his own tap dance when I keep asking that question for which the answer is everything except what we know it to be, which is "no, we don't have additional support for our theory."

Do you have any actual support besides articles by people parroting the NFL? All you have is a weak logical fallacy contradicted by the same people it relies on. Articles by sports reporters have NO WEIGHT as an argument. You would be kicked out of a debate class with that nomsense.
 

BlindFaith

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What are you even arguing? That they didn't admit they screwed up?

You guys have a serious reading comprehension problem you need to deal with.
Anyone who can read sees that's exactly what they said. The play was called correctly and they are looking at ways to make it a catch.
 
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