Complete Injury Update 8-10

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,220
Reaction score
64,734
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
White can contribute, not really sure were you think he won't. While he isn't guarding Brown his first game he still can play and contribute. Some thought the same thing about Anthony Brown last year

White is a late round pick at CB.

They have:
Awuzie
Lewis
Brown

Veterans
Scandrick
Carroll

They use 3 and occasionally 4 CBs in a game.

White will have to be really good, really quickly to get playing time over the players listed above.

Carroll will likely get more time than his talent might imply because they'll want to limit how many young players are on the field together.

I do like him as a match-up specialist against bigger WRs, but I'm not sure he would even be active on game day when the 5 above are all available.

They've rarely kept more than 5 CBs on the 53. Carroll has 3M guaranteed for this season.

It was a different situation with Brown last season. They didn't have 3 other legit young CBs competing with him and when he was on the field the other CBs were generally veterans, not other rookies or even a 2nd year player.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,220
Reaction score
64,734
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You do know it's the trainers holding these guys out of practice? It's not necessarily the players.

The goal is to have everyone there for week one...so far, we are on schedule.

He's just blasting negativity on an internet message board.

ec97f420-bf66-4194-96c2-273a876ee066_1.a4f532f26893d61fbbb819316277e3e9.jpeg
 

Bowdown27

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
7,697
Our revamped defensive backs are all on the shelf. Even if for short time it still scares me.
 

Irvin88_4life

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,509
Reaction score
26,396
White is a late round pick at CB.

They have:
Awuzie
Lewis
Brown

Veterans
Scandrick
Carroll

They use 3 and occasionally 4 CBs in a game.

White will have to be really good, really quickly to get playing time over the players listed above.

Carroll will likely get more time than his talent might imply because they'll want to limit how many young players are on the field together.

I do like him as a match-up specialist against bigger WRs, but I'm not sure he would even be active on game day when the 5 above are all available.

They've rarely kept more than 5 CBs on the 53. Carroll has 3M guaranteed for this season.

It was a different situation with Brown last season. They didn't have 3 other legit young CBs competing with him and when he was on the field the other CBs were generally veterans, not other rookies or even a 2nd year player.
I haven't said White would play above any of those corners. We haven't kept 6 in awhile cause you said it, we haven't had a good stable of corners. White has a ton of potential and while you named all those corners you forget that all of them have been injured only 2 weeks in. I'm willing to bet anything you want White makes this roster and contributes
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,581
Reaction score
27,861
FOXBORO, Mass. — The New England Patriots and Jacksonville Jaguars took it very easy in their final joint practice before Thursday’s preseason opener. The Patriots and Jaguars held a two-hour walkthrough at the practice fields behind Gillette Stadium. Here’s everything we observed. — Wide receiver Matthew Slater, cornerback Eric Rowe, linebacker Shea McClellin and tight end Matt Lengel were absent. — Linebacker Trevor Bates and offensive tackle Antonio Garcia returned to the field after missing Tuesday’s practice. — Offensive tackle Nate Solder, safety David Jones, tight end James O’Shaughnessy, wide receiver Cody Hollister and running back Mike Gillislee were limited and worked on a lower practice field. — Linebacker Dont’a Hightower (physically unable to perform list), defensive tackle Alan Branch (PUP list) and offensive tackle Andrew Jelks (non-football injury list) were present in sweats but worked on the lower field. — Garcia left practice midway through and didn’t participate in full-team walkthroughs. Defensive tackle Vincent Valentine and wide receivers Malcolm Mitchell and Danny Amendola also didn’t participate but weren’t on the lower field. — Don’t expect to see Slater, McClellin, Rowe, Lengel, Valentine, Gillislee, Solder, Jones, Hollister, O’Shaughnessy, Garcia, Hightower, Jelks or Branch play in Thursday’s game. Amendola, Mitchell and tight end Rob Gronkowski also likely won’t play. — Defensive tackle Vince Wilfork, who is holding a retirement ceremony Wednesday, was present for practice. — Expect to see undrafted rookie defensive tackle Adam Butler and 2017 draft picks Deatrich Wise and Derek Rivers receive a lot of defensive snaps early in Thursday’s game. Rivers has been playing all over the defense in McClellin’s absence. — It seems the Patriots will give offensive tackle LaAdrian Waddle the chance to unseat Cameron Fleming as the team’s top swing tackle. He was playing a lot of left tackle in Solder’s absence. Thumbnail photo via Geoff Burke/USA TODAY Sports Images

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/08/patriots-jo...ns-injuries-mounting-before-preseason-opener/

That Belichick and his Club Med.
 

Smashin222

Well-Known Member
Messages
773
Reaction score
383
That might make sense if the entire league had a phone book for an injury report.

Injuries are accepted here. It's ok to be injured. So they are. A lot.

Don't really feel up to practicing today? Tell them your back's stiff or your hammy's a little sore. Enjoy your day off.

That's the difference, yes.

It's amazing how dumb our fans are. This team runs a club med camp because of the cancer in the front office.

I feel like its impossible to believe that you actually watch or pay attention to football. Literally every team in the NFL that has played a preseason game has a list like this. There are like 90 players on every roster and football is a war of attrition. Seriously, what sport do you watch that you think the Cowboys have a lower threshold for putting players on their injury report?
 

diefree666

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,529
Reaction score
4,153
Another factor is that the NFLPA has put a lot more limitations in place via the CBA on how much players can do certain things so I'm sure it causes coaches to have to cram more things in those fewer windows than they used to.


All the limitations that the current CBA puts on practices, etc now I think actually causes more problems. Not to mention the quality of the game has suffered.
 

Reality

Staff member
Messages
31,289
Reaction score
73,127
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
All the limitations that the current CBA puts on practices, etc now I think actually causes more problems. Not to mention the quality of the game has suffered.
I agree completely. It's one of those narrow-minded thought processes that in a quick moment makes all the sense in the world .. fewer practices should equal fewer injuries. If it were a simple case of reducing practices, that would likely be an accurate theory. The problem is that because there are fewer practices, teams got more efficient at making the most of the remaining practices, which means players get pushed harder and more work gets crammed into the same practice periods.

I played several sports growing up and one thing each of my coaches had in common was when practices were cancelled due to weather or other reasons, the following practices were a lot more intense, tended to last longer and had a lot more impact on our bodies.

It amazes me when people ignore cause-and-effect in life. Simple-minded solutions for problems rarely lead to the expected results. Reducing practices was a narrow-minded solution. If anything, they would have been better off leaving the number of practices alone and instead focused on reducing the time periods allowed for each practice, though even that's not a guarantee coaches won't cram more into those practices.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
That might make sense if the entire league had a phone book for an injury report.

And they.....do. Like a lot of them do. And many worse off with serious injuries to their better players at that.

Injuries are accepted here. It's ok to be injured. So they are. A lot.

Just a nonsensical statement not really rooted in any fact. Rooted in a lot of emotion though.

Don't really feel up to practicing today? Tell them your back's stiff or your hammy's a little sore. Enjoy your day off.

Ok, let's go through the list and see which players would be incentived to take a day off by faking an injury.

WR Brice Butler- sprained foot, out for an undisclosed period - Having the best camp of his life. Why would he want a day off?
WR Javaontee Herndon- undisclosed, listed as injured on Dallas Cowboys.com - A player this team did not draft. Why would he want a day off?
TE James Hanna- groin, unknown if he practiced today - Injured all offseason.
LT Tyron Smith- resting back tightness again - Dealing with a recurring injury. Takes pride in his preparation. Has barely practiced the last 10 days. Why would he want a day off?
C Joe Looney- toe, out since HOF game - Trying to make the team. Why would he want a day off?
DE Tyrone Crawford- out for the preseason with lateral ankle sprain - Obvious injury is obvious. Playing to not be let go next offseason. Why would he want a day off?
LB Sean Lee- hamstring, rested presumably as a precaution - Lee lives for this game. Why would he want a day off? And if you suggested it he'd kill you.
DT Cedric Thornton- also caught the Cowboys' hamstring disease - I could see Thornton appreciating a day off.
CB Marquez White- dealing with, you guessed it, a hamstring - Young player trying to make the 53. Why would he want a day off?
CB Chidobe Awuzie- sore ankle, but not listed on the official website so might have practiced today - Young player who knows he will play early and often. Team captain type. Why would he want a day off?
CB Anthony Brown- hamstring from the HOF game - Injured in game. Knows this is a huge season for him. Why would he want a day off?
CB Jourdan Lewis- hamstring from early in camp - Young player hoping to compete for significant snaps on day 1. Gone since camp begun. Why would he want a day off?

Anything else?
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
I agree completely. It's one of those narrow-minded thought processes that in a quick moment makes all the sense in the world .. fewer practices should equal fewer injuries. If it were a simple case of reducing practices, that would likely be an accurate theory. The problem is that because there are fewer practices, teams got more efficient at making the most of the remaining practices, which means players get pushed harder and more work gets crammed into the same practice periods.

I played several sports growing up and one thing each of my coaches had in common was when practices were cancelled due to weather or other reasons, the following practices were a lot more intense, tended to last longer and had a lot more impact on our bodies.

It amazes me when people ignore cause-and-effect in life. Simple-minded solutions for problems rarely lead to the expected results. Reducing practices was a narrow-minded solution. If anything, they would have been better off leaving the number of practices alone and instead focused on reducing the time periods allowed for each practice, though even that's not a guarantee coaches won't cram more into those practices.
My old coworker's brother is a rookie on the Eagles. He said practices are less intense but more focused than college practices.

I don't think coaches are overcompensating for fewer practices.
 

Reality

Staff member
Messages
31,289
Reaction score
73,127
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
My old coworker's brother is a rookie on the Eagles. He said practices are less intense but more focused than college practices.

I don't think coaches are overcompensating for fewer practices.
I wasn't comparing NFL practices to college practices as there is no comparison. In college, the coaches own your butt as just being on the team is a privilege not a right nor is the team locked into keeping you.

What I said was, "The problem is that because there are fewer practices, teams got more efficient at making the most of the remaining practices, which means players get pushed harder and more work gets crammed into the same practice periods." I'm not saying practices are harder, nor am I saying they are tougher. I said that as an example of of teams I played on growing up, but that was just to show another example of cause-and-effect.

By that I mean that there are fewer breaks, fewer periods where people are standing around doing nothing as they have a lot more groups active at the same time, etc. They are more efficient now as I said because they have to make the most of it which is the same as saying, "more focused".

And that's my point .. when there were more practices and less limitations on padded practices, coaches could go at an easier pace and that meant a lot of players getting more rest time between activities. Now, teams want to get as many players practicing every practice and they want to use every minute they can of every practice they do have, especially the padded practices.

NFL coaches do not want players hurt so they're not going to push them too hard in practice because they need them in games, but they will push them harder to do more. What they are doing now is maximizing their practice time as efficiently as possible which means the players get less rest and more tired as the practice wears on. As players get more tired, they are more prone to injuries, which is why injuries of all types are becoming more common.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
I

By that I mean that there are fewer breaks, fewer periods where people are standing around doing nothing as they have a lot more groups active at the same time, etc. They are more efficient now as I said because they have to make the most of it which is the same as saying, "more focused".

And that's my point .. when there were more practices and less limitations on padded practices, coaches could go at an easier pace and that meant a lot of players getting more rest time between activities. Now, teams want to get as many players practicing every practice and they want to use every minute they can of every practice they do have, especially the padded practices.
Two points...

A) This is all speculation. You say coaches are more efficient now. What's your evidence of this? In fact you also argued that the product on the field has suffered due to fewer practices. That means even if there are some practice efficiency gains (dubious) they clearly don't make up for more time on the field (rest). In reality I'd suspect if you asked players about practice days 10 years ago until today they'd tell you that practices are easier now. In fact that's what many assert about Parcells. Further, the biggest risk in injury to players comes during contact. And practices have much less contact today than they used to. That's irrefutable.

B) There is growing research around the role of rest and injury susceptibility. Even if practices are more efficient today (dubious claim) players get more rest and recovery time (fewer practices). That's usually a very good tradeoff as anyone who trains their body knows.

Sorry I'm going to wholesale disregard your claim that these efficient practices lead to more injuries. In summary you don't even know if it's true practices are suddenly so much more intense and so likely to produce more injuries and then you ignore the role of additional rest for players on injury prevention.
 

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
40,378
Reaction score
37,668
You do know it's the trainers holding these guys out of practice? It's not necessarily the players.

The goal is to have everyone there for week one...so far, we are on schedule.

It does seem that a lot of fans don't understand it. They seem to believe that Player A doesn't want to practice today so suddenly his hammy is tight. That makes the training staff either a bunch of fools or incompetent since it is their job to examine these injuries and tell the front office whether it is something the player can play through or something that needs rest and/or treatment.

The main difference in today's NFL is that the league is trying to do a much better job of protecting players by being a lot more cautious than they were thanks primarily to the older players who sacrificed their bodies and minds to play the game and have come out about what playing the game did to them.

Research also has led to a better understanding of how strenuous exercise affects the body. Back when I was in junior high and high school, coaches didn't understand the need for hydration, for example, and some actually believed that it made players tougher when they had to go without it during practices.
 
Last edited:

Reality

Staff member
Messages
31,289
Reaction score
73,127
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
A) This is all speculation. You say coaches are more efficient now. What's your evidence of this? In fact you also argued that the product on the field has suffered due to fewer practices. That means even if there are some practice efficiency gains (dubious) they clearly don't make up for more time on the field (rest). In reality I'd suspect if you asked players about practice days 10 years ago until today they'd tell you that practices are easier now. In fact that's what many assert about Parcells. Further, the biggest risk in injury to players comes during contact. And practices have much less contact today than they used to. That's irrefutable.
I'm saying this because 20+ years ago, practices had breaks in between the different stages of practice. Now, the moment a stage ends, a horn blows and players are walking immediately to the next stage. Long ago, the coaches and players could take their time in between stages and the players got a pseudo break in between them. Also, there were fewer positional practices occurring simultaneously compared to now so a lot of times the players were getting breaks while standing and watching other players practice for longer periods of time. The window is smaller now so teams make the most of it by having more coaches on the staff and performing more simultaneous practices within the practice while reducing downtime between the stages.

B) There is growing research around the role of rest and injury susceptibility. Even if practices are more efficient today (dubious claim) players get more rest and recovery time (fewer practices). That's usually a very good tradeoff as anyone who trains their body knows.
I never said anything about contact being the cause, so not sure why you are arguing that point. What I'm saying is that with fewer and shorter practices, coaches are pushing players harder (not making the practices harder, pushing them harder to do more overall) during practices than in the past.

What's worse on your body? A one-mile run 6 days per week or a three-mile run 2 days per week? Your body would be more likely to develop an injury, and not necessarily directly, from the 3-mile run than you would the one-mile run. The reason I say "not necessarily directly" is because the 3-mile run on one day may create weaknesses or strains in muscles that do not recover before the next day you run, so you may not get injured on that day, but rather it may make you susceptible to injuries in a following practice as your weak or sore muscles fail to protect your ligaments and bones or your other muscles compensate for the weakened muscles causing them to become strained and your body prone to injury.

Sorry I'm going to wholesale disregard your claim that these efficient practices lead to more injuries. In summary you don't even know if it's true practices are suddenly so much more intense and so likely to produce more injuries and then you ignore the role of additional rest for players on injury prevention.
No need to apologize, I don't mind a different opinion. That said, I never said NFL practices were more "intense" though you keep saying that. I mentioned growing up my practices were more intense the next time when practices were cancelled, but as I pointed out in my last point, that was just an example of cause-and-effect, not a direct comment on NFL practices as they are nothing alike. Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote.

There's no doubt practices are easier than they were in the past, but easier does not equate to safer. There is much less contact, especially contact beyond the line these days. That is just as much a decision of the owners and coaches though as it is the NFLPA. However, when you have fewer practices, teams are going to get more out of those practices as that's just common sense. The more time you have to do something, the less rushed and organized (efficient) you are going to be with what you do. The less time you have, the more focused and efficient you will be.
 

Toruk_Makto

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,242
Reaction score
17,336
I'm saying this because 20+ years ago, practices had breaks in between the different stages of practice. Now, the moment a stage ends, a horn blows and players are walking immediately to the next stage. Long ago, the coaches and players could take their time in between stages and the players got a pseudo break in between them. Also, there were fewer positional practices occurring simultaneously compared to now so a lot of times the players were getting breaks while standing and watching other players practice for longer periods of time. The window is smaller now so teams make the most of it by having more coaches on the staff and performing more simultaneous practices within the practice while reducing downtime between the stages.


I never said anything about contact being the cause, so not sure why you are arguing that point. What I'm saying is that with fewer and shorter practices, coaches are pushing players harder (not making the practices harder, pushing them harder to do more overall) during practices than in the past.

What's worse on your body? A one-mile run 6 days per week or a three-mile run 2 days per week? Your body would be more likely to develop an injury, and not necessarily directly, from the 3-mile run than you would the one-mile run. The reason I say "not necessarily directly" is because the 3-mile run on one day may create weaknesses or strains in muscles that do not recover before the next day you run, so you may not get injured on that day, but rather it may make you susceptible to injuries in a following practice as your weak or sore muscles fail to protect your ligaments and bones or your other muscles compensate for the weakened muscles causing them to become strained and your body prone to injury.


No need to apologize, I don't mind a different opinion. That said, I never said NFL practices were more "intense" though you keep saying that. I mentioned growing up my practices were more intense the next time when practices were cancelled, but as I pointed out in my last point, that was just an example of cause-and-effect, not a direct comment on NFL practices as they are nothing alike. Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote.

There's no doubt practices are easier than they were in the past, but easier does not equate to safer. There is much less contact, especially contact beyond the line these days. That is just as much a decision of the owners and coaches though as it is the NFLPA. However, when you have fewer practices, teams are going to get more out of those practices as that's just common sense. The more time you have to do something, the less rushed and organized (efficient) you are going to be with what you do. The less time you have, the more focused and efficient you will be.
The 1 mile run 6 days a week for sure. Rest is critically important in high performance sports.

You're a also presenting as fact practices are tougher now on the body than they were 20 years ago. I just don't think we can say that definitively.
 
Top