Concerns about Lawson

[whcarm]

There are a few things that scare me about Lawson.

1) Mario Williams is considered to be one of the best players available in the draft. Lawson was playing opposite Williams. Williams got the attention, which left Lawson free to do his thing.

Granted, we have Ware in Dallas, so not all the attention would be on Lawson here either. But I think the fact that he played with Williams made him look better than he is. If he hadn't had Williams playing opposite him, would he have had as much success? Would we be talking about taking him in the first round?

2) His size is not typical of what Parcells likes. He is taller than most of the other OLB prospects and he weighs less than most of them. That might mean he can grown into his frame. However, one of his biggest assets is speed. Will he lose his speed if he has to gain weight?

Also, will his speed be negated by the fact that he will be facing the TE and linemen on most plays?

3) He was not a LB in college. Yes, I understand that Ware wasn't a LB in college either. But Ware took some time to get used to the switch and was a bit inconsistent at times. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone who understands how to be a LB right off the bat?

4) There are two things I look for in descriptions of college players. One cocerns me and the other makes me like the guy more. The thing that concerns me is people saying that he takes plays off. I have seen that a few times in regards to Lawson. The thing I always like is people saying he is a team leader, is tough and works hard. While I have seen people say Lawson works hard in the weight room, I haven't seen anyone say he is a team leader.

So, all of this concerns me a bit about Lawson.

On the other hand, all the things that concern me about Lawson are positives for Carpenter.

Carpenter was a star this past year and probably would have been much more heralded had he not been injured (I love hearing he might have been regarded as highly as Hawk had he not been injured). Carpenter has the prototypical size that Parcells wants. Carpenter played the LB position in college. He already knows how to cover and he is still a good pass rusher. And everything I have read about Carpenter has trumped up his high character and work ethic. Add that to the fact that Parcells coached his father, and that really makes me think he is the kind of player Parcells loves to coach.

I would be happy with either guy. Both come with some risks. But, I would be nervous about Lawson. On the other hand, I'd love to hear Carpenter's name called next week and would have no reservations about him.

 

[BigDFan5]

There are a few things that scare me about Lawson.

1) Mario Williams is considered to be one of the best players available in the draft. Lawson was playing opposite Williams. Williams got the attention, which left Lawson free to do his thing.

Granted, we have Ware in Dallas, so not all the attention would be on Lawson here either. But I think the fact that he played with Williams made him look better than he is. If he hadn't had Williams playing opposite him, would he have had as much success? Would we be talking about taking him in the first round?

2) His size is not typical of what Parcells likes. He is taller than most of the other OLB prospects and he weighs less than most of them. That might mean he can grown into his frame. However, one of his biggest assets is speed. Will he lose his speed if he has to gain weight?

Also, will his speed be negated by the fact that he will be facing the TE and linemen on most plays?

3) He was not a LB in college. Yes, I understand that Ware wasn't a LB in college either. But Ware took some time to get used to the switch and was a bit inconsistent at times. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone who understands how to be a LB right off the bat?

4) There are two things I look for in descriptions of college players. One cocerns me and the other makes me like the guy more. The thing that concerns me is people saying that he takes plays off. I have seen that a few times in regards to Lawson. The thing I always like is people saying he is a team leader, is tough and works hard. While I have seen people say Lawson works hard in the weight room, I haven't seen anyone say he is a team leader.

So, all of this concerns me a bit about Lawson.

On the other hand, all the things that concern me about Lawson are positives for Carpenter.

Carpenter was a star this past year and probably would have been much more heralded had he not been injured (I love hearing he might have been regarded as highly as Hawk had he not been injured). Carpenter has the prototypical size that Parcells wants. Carpenter played the LB position in college. He already knows how to cover and he is still a good pass rusher. And everything I have read about Carpenter has trumped up his high character and work ethic. Add that to the fact that Parcells coached his father, and that really makes me think he is the kind of player Parcells loves to coach.

I would be happy with either guy. Both come with some risks. But, I would be nervous about Lawson. On the other hand, I'd love to hear Carpenter's name called next week and would have no reservations about him.

on point 1 he was named nc states best dlineman by his coaches and teamates

point 3 he was a LB b4 becoming a DE

I have never seen anyone say lawson takes plays off you have a linK?

 

[speedkilz88]

Parcells has always preferred taller LBs. 6-4 type guys. Lawson is a tad over 6-5. Willie McGinest is 6-5. 3-4 teams tend to draft tweeners, tall DEs that are usually on the small side but very good pass rushers.

 

[Cowboy Junkie]

Lawson is the opposite of taking plays off , he is a high motor guy.
I do not consider 6'5 250lb plus to be a small linebacker and players coming out of college usually gain weight after getting into a work out program specified for them.

 

[Paniolo22]

Parcells has always preferred taller LBs. 6-4 type guys. Lawson is a tad over 6-5. Willie McGinest is 6-5. 3-4 teams tend to draft tweeners, tall DEs that are usually on the small side but very good pass rushers.

McGinist was also 265-270 lbs.

 

[THUMPER]

There are a few things that scare me about Lawson.

1) Mario Williams is considered to be one of the best players available in the draft. Lawson was playing opposite Williams. Williams got the attention, which left Lawson free to do his thing.

Granted, we have Ware in Dallas, so not all the attention would be on Lawson here either. But I think the fact that he played with Williams made him look better than he is. If he hadn't had Williams playing opposite him, would he have had as much success? Would we be talking about taking him in the first round?

The same can be said of Carpenter.

2) His size is not typical of what Parcells likes. He is taller than most of the other OLB prospects and he weighs less than most of them. That might mean he can grown into his frame. However, one of his biggest assets is speed. Will he lose his speed if he has to gain weight?

Also, will his speed be negated by the fact that he will be facing the TE and linemen on most plays?

Actually his size is EXACTLY what Parcells likes in an OLB. Bill has always gone after LBs that are 6'3" or taller. He has the frame to add another 10-15 pounds without losing his speed.

He faced OTs on a regular basis as a DE so I don't see where it will be MORE difficult as an OLB. He actually had less room to get around them at DE than he will as an OLB so if anything it should be easier for him to get to the QB since he can come from different angles. If they double him then Ware should be free.

3) He was not a LB in college. Yes, I understand that Ware wasn't a LB in college either. But Ware took some time to get used to the switch and was a bit inconsistent at times. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone who understands how to be a LB right off the bat?

This is actually another trait Bill looks for. Almost all of his best OLBs were DEs in college. Ware did very well at OLB even though he had only played DE previously. You never know how well a guy will be in coverage until you test him out in it but Lawson certainly has the speed and quickness to handle it but we'll have to see how his reactions and instincts are. There will definitely be a transition period but that is true for every DE making the switch to OLB.

4) There are two things I look for in descriptions of college players. One cocerns me and the other makes me like the guy more. The thing that concerns me is people saying that he takes plays off. I have seen that a few times in regards to Lawson. The thing I always like is people saying he is a team leader, is tough and works hard. While I have seen people say Lawson works hard in the weight room, I haven't seen anyone say he is a team leader.

I don't know how many NC State games you have seen the last couple of years but Lawson has a continuous motor. He wasn't voted the team MVP for nothing you know. The last thing I would be concerned about with Lawson is him taking plays off. His coverage skills would cause me a lot more concern since we don't know if he has any at all.

So, all of this concerns me a bit about Lawson.

On the other hand, all the things that concern me about Lawson are positives for Carpenter.

Carpenter was a star this past year and probably would have been much more heralded had he not been injured (I love hearing he might have been regarded as highly as Hawk had he not been injured). Carpenter has the prototypical size that Parcells wants. Carpenter played the LB position in college. He already knows how to cover and he is still a good pass rusher. And everything I have read about Carpenter has trumped up his high character and work ethic. Add that to the fact that Parcells coached his father, and that really makes me think he is the kind of player Parcells loves to coach.

I would be happy with either guy. Both come with some risks. But, I would be nervous about Lawson. On the other hand, I'd love to hear Carpenter's name called next week and would have no reservations about him.

I would not be at all disappointed in either guy as they both bring excellent skills and athleticism.

 

[speedkilz88]

McGinist was also 265-270 lbs.

Not when he came out.

 

[whcarm]

Well, I have seen Lawson's weight reported anywhere from 220 to 240, but I have never seen him listed as weighing more than 245.

Both the Sportingnews and NFL Draft Scout have remarked that his takes plays off from time to time. I'm sure I could find more people saying that, but those are just the sites I use most often.

He has not played LB in a few years. I would imagine he moved to line because his coverage skills were not that great. The LB that we draft to play opposite Ware needs to be able to cover as well as rush the passer. I'm not sure Lawson can do that as well as a guy like Capenter can.

 

[Alexander]

Both the Sportingnews and NFL Draft Scout have remarked that his takes plays off from time to time.

You could say that about many prospects. I don't care what kind of maniac player you are, you are going to take plays off. It is called conserving energy.

If I watched two games of Lawson's and he wasn't rotated in and out as he was used to, and he was gassed in the fourth quarter of a blowout loss, you could conclude he takes plays off.

And if you only saw it at two sites, then chances are it was someone talking out of their backside.

 

[J-DOG]

The guy who was taking plays off was Mario Williams.

Pro Football Weekly Draft Preview-Mario Williams
Negatives-Needs to be more consistent and does not dominate like he should all the time. TAKES SOME PLAYS OFF. Scouts would like to see him play with more urgency. Could play with better leverage, hand use and pad level. Does not have great instincts.
"If Mario Williams would have played the whole season like he did the last 3-4 games of last season we would be seeing him drafted #1 overall".-Mel Kiper

 

[speedkilz88]

If they had him listed at 220, they aren't worth reading.

 

[rexrobinson]

The only thing I am worried about with Manny Lawson is if he will get bored sacking the QB so easily!!!

just kidding but I think it is now POPULAR to not like him just like it was popular to like him a month ago....

lol these pre-draft conversations are always funny looking back.

 

[BigDFan5]

Well, I have seen Lawson's weight reported anywhere from 220 to 240, but I have never seen him listed as weighing more than 245.

Both the Sportingnews and NFL Draft Scout have remarked that his takes plays off from time to time. I'm sure I could find more people saying that, but those are just the sites I use most often.

He has not played LB in a few years. I would imagine he moved to line because his coverage skills were not that great. The LB that we draft to play opposite Ware needs to be able to cover as well as rush the passer. I'm not sure Lawson can do that as well as a guy like Capenter can.

Can I get a link to the sites that say he takes plays off?

He weighed 241 at the combine

His coverage skills are fine for a LB, ask Last years first rounder Heath Miller about his cover skills, he movved to DE because he was a dynamic pass rusher

 

[whcarm]

I gave you both the sites that said he took plays off. TSN and NFL Draft Blitz. Both sites are pay sites, so me giving you the link wouldn't work. Again, those two sites are just the two sites I use the most and both remarked that he takes plays off. I haven't looked through other sites to find that information, but I'm sure if both those sites claim it, it isn't some out of the blue thing.

 

[whcarm]

And to reiterate, I'm not bad mouthing the guy. I wouldn't be upset if we took him. However, I am just expressing the fact that I have some concerns about him. I'm also expressing the fact that the concerns I have about him and not concerns I have about Carpenter.

 

[Alexander]

I gave you both the sites that said he took plays off. TSN and NFL Draft Blitz. Both sites are pay sites, so me giving you the link wouldn't work. Again, those two sites are just the two sites I use the most and both remarked that he takes plays off. I haven't looked through other sites to find that information, but I'm sure if both those sites claim it, it isn't some out of the blue thing.

It is if you haven't heard that mentioned elsewhere. And I sure haven't. If NFLDB and TSN are your Bibles, then fine.

A poster said it earlier, that's Mario Williams, not Lawson.

 

[speedkilz88]

PFW says, "Plays hard", "Chases hard", "Has a great motor", "Tough, smart".

 

[whcarm]

It is if you haven't heard that mentioned elsewhere. And I sure haven't. If NFLDB and TSN are your Bibles, then fine.

A poster said it earlier, that's Mario Williams, not Lawson.

While I am sure you meant no disrespect by this comment, you might want to select your wording more carefully. The Bible is my Bible. Even an off handed comment like that irritates me as a Christian.

Back to the subject, I just use those sites because of the other sites that I regularly look at, those sites have the most in-depth information.

And I'm not saying the guy is a bum. I'm just point out the difference between him and Capenter in that respect. Everything I have read about Carpenter everywhere has said what a high character, hard worker and high motor guy he is. I can't say the same about Lawson.

 

[J-DOG]

To be fair here are the negatives on Carpenter and Lawson from Pro Football Weekly Draft Preview.
Carpenter-Too inconsistent and could play more disciplined. Will dissappear for stretches during games. See-and-go reactor who can be late to locate the ball. Will get hung up on blocks and can do a better job of shedding. Not an explosive hitter. Scouts have concerns about his football intelligence and question why he was used with his hand on the ground to rush in passing situations instead of dropping into coverage as a senior.
Lawson-Lacks bulk and bulk-strength. Gets engulfed and hung up at the line. Too straight-linish and will overrun and overpursue. Needs to add more pass rush moves. Gets shut down too easily if he can't win with speed.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

There are a few things that scare me about Lawson.

1) Mario Williams is considered to be one of the best players available in the draft. Lawson was playing opposite Williams. Williams got the attention, which left Lawson free to do his thing.

Granted, we have Ware in Dallas, so not all the attention would be on Lawson here either. But I think the fact that he played with Williams made him look better than he is. If he hadn't had Williams playing opposite him, would he have had as much success? Would we be talking about taking him in the first round?

2) His size is not typical of what Parcells likes. He is taller than most of the other OLB prospects and he weighs less than most of them. That might mean he can grown into his frame. However, one of his biggest assets is speed. Will he lose his speed if he has to gain weight?

Also, will his speed be negated by the fact that he will be facing the TE and linemen on most plays?

3) He was not a LB in college. Yes, I understand that Ware wasn't a LB in college either. But Ware took some time to get used to the switch and was a bit inconsistent at times. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone who understands how to be a LB right off the bat?

4) There are two things I look for in descriptions of college players. One cocerns me and the other makes me like the guy more. The thing that concerns me is people saying that he takes plays off. I have seen that a few times in regards to Lawson. The thing I always like is people saying he is a team leader, is tough and works hard. While I have seen people say Lawson works hard in the weight room, I haven't seen anyone say he is a team leader.

So, all of this concerns me a bit about Lawson.

On the other hand, all the things that concern me about Lawson are positives for Carpenter.

Carpenter was a star this past year and probably would have been much more heralded had he not been injured (I love hearing he might have been regarded as highly as Hawk had he not been injured). Carpenter has the prototypical size that Parcells wants. Carpenter played the LB position in college. He already knows how to cover and he is still a good pass rusher. And everything I have read about Carpenter has trumped up his high character and work ethic. Add that to the fact that Parcells coached his father, and that really makes me think he is the kind of player Parcells loves to coach.

I would be happy with either guy. Both come with some risks. But, I would be nervous about Lawson. On the other hand, I'd love to hear Carpenter's name called next week and would have no reservations about him.

Lawson:
1. You can say the same for williams, he benifited from Lawson.
2. id say his size is good where he is, but he can do even better than what he is at as his big 6-5 frame allows him to add bulk and i see him gaining a bit of muscle mass onto his large frame before the season starts (250-260)
3. he actually played LB in college and then made the transition to DE.
4. like everyone has said, he doesnt take plays off, all i hear is him being a high intensity player.

Carpenter:
I agree completely on all of this, but he also played next to AJ HAWK who is the same caliber as Williams according to your analysis of talent, dont forget Shleisigle (SP?). other than that i agree with #1.

Conclusion:
both played with a talented D, they are both solid players who would IMO do very will in this D. Lawson being the more athletic and freakishly talented player while Carpenter already fits the mold of the position and knows what he is doing and is more well rounded.