Cooper Beebe had a nice season statistically

SlammedZero said:
I remember, during the draft last year, there were a number of posters proclaiming Beebe was a great pick.

Kudos to those people. You were correct.
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Thanks, but I cheated. I see every K-St game.

The only thing that surprised me about the draft and Beebe is how he lasted until pick 73.

Just wait until September when he has a full off season.
 
bluemagic4ever said:
Hoffman isnt a starter IMO he is a depth piece. Struggles against the big boys at times.
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When has Hoffman struggled against the big DTs this season? If anything, he has shown to be able to handle those big DTs better than expected, even dominated at times.
 
America's Cowboy said:
When has Hoffman struggled against the big DTs this season? If anything, he has shown to be able to handle those big DTs better than expected, even dominated at times.
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Tampa he looked rough, but Vea does that to a lot of guys. The Philly game was a mixed bag too, but we are probably talking about two of the best DTs in football between those two teams. He more than held his own against NY, and honestly did a good job against Cincinnati who I think has a very underrate guy in BJ Hill.

Mixed bag on Hoffman, but its hard to hold his struggles against him given that its come against two of the leagues genetic freaks. Wish we had even more tape on the guy, but its hard to say hes anything less than at least an average type of starter in the league at this point.
 
Bobhaze said:
I wouldn’t mind seeing us draft a center and move Beebe to RG replacing the great Zack Martin.
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Not a great C draft unfortunately. Best C eligible this year (imo) didn't declare, Bryce Foster out of Kansas. Otherwise I'm right there with you. The top two guys in this class are undersized even for C's.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Tampa he looked rough, but Vea does that to a lot of guys. The Philly game was a mixed bag too, but we are probably talking about two of the best DTs in football between those two teams. He more than held his own against NY, and honestly did a good job against Cincinnati who I think has a very underrate guy in BJ Hill.

Mixed bag on Hoffman, but its hard to hold his struggles against him given that its come against two of the leagues genetic freaks. Wish we had even more tape on the guy, but its hard to say hes anything less than at least an average type of starter in the league at this point.
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Exactly... he isnt a guy that gonna stop me from addressing the position over the off season.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Tampa he looked rough, but Vea does that to a lot of guys. The Philly game was a mixed bag too, but we are probably talking about two of the best DTs in football between those two teams. He more than held his own against NY, and honestly did a good job against Cincinnati who I think has a very underrate guy in BJ Hill.

Mixed bag on Hoffman, but its hard to hold his struggles against him given that its come against two of the leagues genetic freaks. Wish we had even more tape on the guy, but its hard to say hes anything less than at least an average type of starter in the league at this point.
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Vita Vea beat Hoffman how many times? 2 - 3 plays all game long? Compared to Hoffman stifling him at the line of scrimmage throughout the game? I would say Hoffman won that battle.

 
America's Cowboy said:
Vita Vea beat Hoffman how many times? 2 - 3 plays all game long? Compared to Hoffman stifling him at the line of scrimmage throughout the game? I would say Hoffman won that battle.

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I don't have the exact snap count on Vea V Hoffman from the entire game so maybe he handled him fine, but here are the negative plays I counted on Hoffman that game:

Q1 3:36 - Falls down after running into Veas back
Q1 2:58 - Hoffman beat on a quick swim move that blows up the play
Q1 2:52 - On the Tolbert TD, Vea beats hoffman for quick pressure forcing an early throw
Q2 10:49 - Chop block doesnt even phase Vea
Q2 4:10 - 96 just pushes Hoffman out of the way to make the tackle on Dowdle on a toss play....a toss play.
Q2 3:29 - Ball comes out quick so it doesnt hurt the play but Hoffman is late to pickup the stunt and gets driven back into QB depth
Q2 3:05 - Rush gets the ball off, but Hoffman pushed back qb depth again
Q2 :48 - Looks like he was slow to pick up the stunt - #9 drives him into QB depth
Q2 :28 - Hoffman gives up the sack in right around 2 seconds
Q3 8:23 - Hoffman false start
Q3 :31 - Nice down block on #96 but Hoffman too slow to get off that block and to the LB who made the play for minimal gain
Q4 14:27 - Beat by #96 who is playing an inside technique moving outside on the outside zone run. All Hoffman needed to do here was wall his man off to open a seam for Dowdle, instead he makes the play
Q4 13:20 - Penalty on Hoffman, holding
Q4 13:03 - Hoffman beat on a quick inside move from #94
Q4 9:10 - Hoffman beat by a bull rush on #94, 94 gets a hit on Rush after the ball is released

I don't think this game is a reflection of what Hoffman can be, hes a better player than this, but I cant deny that he got abused in this one.
 
bluemagic4ever said:
Exactly... he isnt a guy that gonna stop me from addressing the position over the off season.
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Agree completely. I'm completely fine with Hoffman coming back, and dont think you have to sign another interior guy to make a move, but if an upgrade is there for similar money or you really like a guy early for the interior in the draft I wouldnt hesitate to pull the trigger. I think this team makes the mistake too often of being OK with decent players at a position when better options are available.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
I don't have the exact snap count on Vea V Hoffman from the entire game so maybe he handled him fine, but here are the negative plays I counted on Hoffman that game:

Q1 3:36 - Falls down after running into Veas back
Q1 2:58 - Hoffman beat on a quick swim move that blows up the play
Q1 2:52 - On the Tolbert TD, Vea beats hoffman for quick pressure forcing an early throw
Q2 10:49 - Chop block doesnt even phase Vea
Q2 4:10 - 96 just pushes Hoffman out of the way to make the tackle on Dowdle on a toss play....a toss play.
Q2 3:29 - Ball comes out quick so it doesnt hurt the play but Hoffman is late to pickup the stunt and gets driven back into QB depth
Q2 3:05 - Rush gets the ball off, but Hoffman pushed back qb depth again
Q2 :48 - Looks like he was slow to pick up the stunt - #9 drives him into QB depth
Q2 :28 - Hoffman gives up the sack in right around 2 seconds
Q3 8:23 - Hoffman false start
Q3 :31 - Nice down block on #96 but Hoffman too slow to get off that block and to the LB who made the play for minimal gain
Q4 14:27 - Beat by #96 who is playing an inside technique moving outside on the outside zone run. All Hoffman needed to do here was wall his man off to open a seam for Dowdle, instead he makes the play
Q4 13:20 - Penalty on Hoffman, holding
Q4 13:03 - Hoffman beat on a quick inside move from #94
Q4 9:10 - Hoffman beat by a bull rush on #94, 94 gets a hit on Rush after the ball is released

I don't think this game is a reflection of what Hoffman can be, hes a better player than this, but I cant deny that he got abused in this one.
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If you looked at the game and look at how hard it was to run the ball it’s started with Vea. Brock has a mean streak and is a solid back up but he isn’t that guy you are trying to make him out to be. He looked good against teams who were in the bottom of rushing defense . He played against some of the better defenses and struggled . Again not a bad player -average but he isn’t someone that should hinder us from getting a better option.
 
America's Cowboy said:
Hoffman would be great at C. Beebe would be great at G. Positions for both players is their natural positions in college.
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I like our interior line, Guyton is going to have to make large improvements though. He is a downgrade from our backups at this point. Steele is not what he used to be either.
 
bluemagic4ever said:
If you looked at the game and look at how hard it was to run the ball it’s started with Vea. Brock has a mean streak and is a solid back up but he isn’t that guy you are trying to make him out to be. He looked good against teams who were in the bottom of rushing defense . He played against some of the better defenses and struggled . Again not a bad player -average but he isn’t someone that should hinder us from getting a better option.
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Not sure I understand what you're saying here....I listed 15 negative plays from Hoffman in one game. Thats horrible and if everyone on your OL had 15 negative plays you'd be lucky to get off 5-6 clean plays all game. I don't mind Hoffman starting next season, hes shown that he is capable of plus play in multiple games this year, but I also dont think he should be handed a spot without real competition as he has had rougher games like Tampa and Philly. I'm pretty middle of the road on Hoffman where I'd welcome him back, but also wouldnt overpay him with starter money/guarantees in free agency either.

You might be a little more down on Hoffman than I am in saying he is a backup, but I wont over judge a player based on two games against very good competition. Tampa/Philly can make a lot of guys in the league look really bad, and somewhere along the OL you're likely going to have to settle for average. Hoffman seems pretty average, but is also only 25 with around 700 career snaps which means there could still be a little more room to grow.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Not sure I understand what you're saying here....I listed 15 negative plays from Hoffman in one game. Thats horrible and if everyone on your OL had 15 negative plays you'd be lucky to get off 5-6 clean plays all game. I don't mind Hoffman starting next season, hes shown that he is capable of plus play in multiple games this year, but I also dont think he should be handed a spot without real competition as he has had rougher games like Tampa and Philly. I'm pretty middle of the road on Hoffman where I'd welcome him back, but also wouldnt overpay him with starter money/guarantees in free agency either.

You might be a little more down on Hoffman than I am in saying he is a backup, but I wont over judge a player based on two games against very good competition. Tampa/Philly can make a lot of guys in the league look really bad, and somewhere along the OL you're likely going to have to settle for average. Hoffman seems pretty average, but is also only 25 with around 700 career snaps which means there could still be a little more room to grow.
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Apologies that’s wasn’t geared towards you it was geared towards the previous poster Americas Cowboy. I totally agree with you assessment..
 
Hoffman can be a starter but good enough for a team wanting to win it all?
questionable.
 
I can’t understand anyone watching Hoffman and not liking what they saw at guard . You drafted Beebe as a C and he did the job leave him alone let him get settled into being one of a top quarter of the centers in the NFL.

Have Bass Hoffman take over at guard with Tyler Smith being a dominant blind side LT and Guyton at RT take some of the pressure off him .

Asim Richards Terrence Steele provide depth with Thomas drafted late last year more depth.
With the defense ranking 31st in scoring , OL is not in my top 5 rounds of concern .
 
Bobhaze said:
I wouldn’t mind seeing us draft a center and move Beebe to RG replacing the great Zack Martin.
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I prefer not using a draft pick on the offensive line this year. Let Beebe and Hoffman sort out who plays center and who plays guard. We just have too many positions that need help to add another center to the mix. It's a luxury right now.
 
RonWashington said:
I can’t understand anyone watching Hoffman and not liking what they saw at guard . You drafted Beebe as a C and he did the job leave him alone let him get settled into being one of a top quarter of the centers in the NFL.

Have Bass Hoffman take over at guard with Tyler Smith being a dominant blind side LT and Guyton at RT take some of the pressure off him .

Asim Richards Terrence Steele provide depth with Thomas drafted late last year more depth.
With the defense ranking 31st in scoring , OL is not in my top 5 rounds of concern .
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I'm for Asim being first up at left tackle. If he can't handle it, then turn to Tyler. Let Guyton fight it out with Steele for right tackle.

I really think right now we have multiple options at each spot.

LT - Richards, Smith, Guyton
LG - Smith, Bass, Richards
C - Beebe, Hoffman
RG - Hoffman, Beebe, Bass
RT - Guyton, Steele

That's not figuring in Thomas since we didn't get to see him, and I don't know if Waletzko can contend to be a swing tackle or not. I don't mind Edoga being brought back for that, just not to start.
 
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