Cooper Rush

kskboys said:
It appears to me to be worse.

I'm going to watch this kid closely this preseason and try like hades to see what you guys see in him. I know that Rush is absolutely loaded w/ instincts, and unequivocally knows how to play the game. However, all I see from him are floaters. He appears to seriously have lollipop arm strength as the scouts called it.

So, Omer, why do you think Rush has a better arm than Moore? Just the eye test?
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Yep, just the eye test. I suppose I could be wrong - I certainly can't claim a dramatic difference. I'll watch him again this preseason and see what I think
 
Batman1980 said:
Cooper Rush is Kellen Moore 2.0.
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Why? Joe Montana had a rag arm, too. It can still be done if you see it quickly and get it out accurately.

The only good arm is Mike White's. But that guarantees nothing either.
 
erod said:
Best offensive line in the NFL, best running back, Hall of Fame tight end, top-flight receiver, plus Cole Beasley.

Name me an NFL rookie who ever inherited that as a starter. Nobody.

For me, I'm not comparing him to anyone. I"m TOTALLY fine with him as the quarterback in multiple ways. I just need to see accurate throws from the pocket consistently that aren't dump-offs.

That truly is it. That's the only thing. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm concerned we never will. I'm begging him to prove otherwise.

This team will win some games with running the ball. It might win some with what looks like an improved defense. But at some point, your quarterback has to win big games with his arm alone. Period.
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Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Russel Wilson all walked into stacked talent.
I'll give you the O lone, but it would have been nice to have a TO, Bryant or Witten in their prime. Not at the end of their careers. And he almost one a playoff game.
 
I was in Oxnard last week on vacation... I went to training camp while I was out there.... Dak was throwing 46-60 yard bombs and hitting his target... I know it's only training camp so we'll have to see what he does during games...

But Rush and White were out there throwing long bombs too... All were about the same distances...
 
Streetwise said:
Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Russel Wilson all walked into stacked talent.
I'll give you the O lone, but it would have been nice to have a TO, Bryant or Witten in their prime. Not at the end of their careers. And he almost one a playoff game.
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None of those offenses were anywhere close to this one up front except for Roethlisberger, who I believe is highly overrated to this day. (I like him, but he's overrated.)

It doesn't even matter.

Throw accurately from the pocket this season. Period. That's what it's all about for Dak.
 
erod said:
None of those offenses were anywhere close to this one up front except for Roethlisberger, who I believe is highly overrated to this day. (I like him, but he's overrated.)

It doesn't even matter.

Throw accurately from the pocket this season. Period. That's what it's all about for Dak.
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Put Romo on those teams Roethlisberger has had since 2004. Not only does he probably win more than 2 Super Bowls, he's probably still playing right now instead of announcing from the booth.
 
CowboyFanInLexKy said:
I was in Oxnard last week on vacation... I went to training camp while I was out there.... Dak was throwing 46-60 yard bombs and hitting his target... I know it's only training camp so we'll have to see what he does during games...

But Rush and White were out there throwing long bombs too... All were about the same distances...
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Those throws don't matter that much. He's just fine there.

Can he step up in the pocket and throw a 15-yard out on a line on target so that the CB can't intercept it? Can he throw a 15 yard pass over the linebacker down the seam on target so a receiver can catch it without getting killed?

From the pocket, from the pocket, from the pocket....that's the key. You can't roll out to your right on every play. Teams figured that out and aren't letting him do that anymore at will.
 
Batman1980 said:
Put Romo on those teams Roethlisberger has had since 2004. Not only does he probably win more than 2 Super Bowls, he's probably still playing right now instead of announcing from the booth.
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I loved Romo's game, but it took him a few years to understand it and play to his top level. Unfortunately, you're right, he took a beating in the process. Shiver, McQuistan, Barron, etc...it's amazing he can still eat with a fork.
 
erod said:
Those throws don't matter that much. He's just fine there.

Can he step up in the pocket and throw a 15-yard out on a line on target so that the CB can't intercept it? Can he throw a 15 yard pass over the linebacker down the seam on target so a receiver can catch it without getting killed?

From the pocket, from the pocket, from the pocket....that's the key. You can't roll out to your right on every play. Teams figured that out and aren't letting him do that anymore at will.
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Romo was also a bit shaky on the 15 yard out on a line, a lot of his went the other way for 6. I will add the caveat that Bryant is a horrific route runner so not all of those are Tony's fault.
 
erod said:
That's always a semi-false argument though.

Dak played with an almost perfect offense his first year and a half. Brees did not. Virtually no young QB has ever. Dak had the best situation his rookie year of any rookie QB in the history of the NFL.

Troy played with filth his rookie season. Same for Peyton Manning or any rookie QB who's thrust into a starting role right away. Dak walked into the best offensive personnel the NFL had to offer.

So you can't compare "the first two years" like that. There's far more to it than just inexperience involved.
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Of course there are variables - no two players have identical situations. But the fact is, they all improved over time with whatever offensive support they had, so it doesn't make sense to automatically say Dak can't. And remember the offense was horrible in 2015, and I don't think it would be fair to say the resurgence was only about Zeke - the improvement at QB was also a big factor.

Besides, saying Dak had an "almost perfect offense" is also semi-false. He had a strong O-Line and rookie RB, no question, but a pretty ordinary group of receivers.

And it's not as if those other guys were void of talent around them. Drew Brees also had a damn strong RB - Ladanian Tomlinson, and then he also had Antonio Gates and Keenen McCardell for a few seasons, but still didn't have the big years until he got to NO in his 6th NFL season. Until then his numbers were very Prescott like despite having super star players around him. Brett Favre had Sterling Sharp to throw too. Montana had Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon to throw to.
 
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erod said:
Best offensive line in the NFL, best running back, Hall of Fame tight end, top-flight receiver, plus Cole Beasley.

Name me an NFL rookie who ever inherited that as a starter. Nobody.

For me, I'm not comparing him to anyone. I"m TOTALLY fine with him as the quarterback in multiple ways. I just need to see accurate throws from the pocket consistently that aren't dump-offs.

That truly is it. That's the only thing. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm concerned we never will. I'm begging him to prove otherwise.

This team will win some games with running the ball. It might win some with what looks like an improved defense. But at some point, your quarterback has to win big games with his arm alone. Period.
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The HOF TE was well past his peak, the "top-flight" receiver is so well thought of today that nobody will offer him a job, and Beasley was an afterthought until Dak became the QB.

Brees had future HOFers Ladanian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates at the peaks of their careers, but had years very much like Dak's until he got to New Orleans.

Roethlesberger inherited Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley at RB, and Hines Ward and Palaxico Burress at WR, and a very strong O-Line. And he had ordinary numbers for 5 years even with those guys.

As a rookie Matt Ryan had a 1699 yard/17 TD RB and a 1382 yard receiver, but still had ordinary numbers. It took him 3-4 years before the more notable seasons came.

Troy Aikman never had a big statistical season. Not once. He never had a season that statistically matched up to Dak's rookie year even when he was winning Super Bowls and had Emmitt, Irving, Novacek, Allen, Williams, Stepnoski etc ...

In the end, regardless of who any QB played with, the fact remains that history has proven over and over that QBs continue to improve after year 2, and that year 2 does not set the ceiling for a QB.
 
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OmerV said:
The HOF TE was well past his peak, the "top-flight" receiver is so well thought of today that nobody will offer him a job, and Beasley was an afterthought until Dak became the QB.

Brees had future HOFers Ladanian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates at the peaks of their careers, but had years very much like Dak's until he got to New Orleans.

Roethlesberger inherited Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley at RB, and Hines Ward and Palaxico Burress at WR, and a very strong O-Line. And he had ordinary numbers for 5 years even with those guys.

As a rookie Matt Ryan had a 1699 yard/17 TD RB and a 1382 yard receiver, but still had ordinary numbers. It took him 3-4 years before the more notable seasons came.

Troy Aikman never had a big statistical season. Not once. He never had a season that statistically matched up to Dak's rookie year even when he was winning Super Bowls and had Emmitt, Irving, Novacek, Allen, Williams, Stepnoski etc ...

In the end, regardless of who any QB played with, the fact remains that history has proven over and over that QBs continue to improve after year 2, and that year 2 does not set the ceiling for a QB.
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You don't think Romo used Beasley before Dak? Lol, wow, might want to do some research. Of course Dak uses him more because he likes 5-yard passes and doesn't like to throw to wide receivers.

Witten was so far past his peak, Dak threw it to him all the damn time.

And Dez is the same guy he always was. Romo knew how to use him. If Green Bay is smart, they'll get him up there asap because he'll catch 80 balls for 10 TDs with Rodgers. Dez keeps running his mouth though and shooting himself in the foot.

Brees didn't start as a rookie, so not sure what that was about. Ryan didn't have the best o-line and running back to lean on. Aikman played in a different era, but I'm one that thinks Romo was better than him anyway. Roethlisberger is good, but highly overrated.
 
gp_cowpolk said:
So was Cam
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Ya, that game #1 of the "16" seasom against Denver pretty much knocked the fire outta' his ***, I recall 4 helmet to helmet hard hits Newton took, I felt sorry for the dude & I never did like him , his cocky attitude or ridiculously cheesy fashion sense.
 
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