Cooper vs DeCastro

[Verdict]

For you line gurus out there .... how do you think Cooper compares with DeCastro who was pimped last year by everyone to be the best guard prospect to come out in a decade?

 

[JoeyBoy718]

It seems like every year another person is the best prospect in a decade. Matt Kalil was a prodigy last year, and now there are 3 guys who would've gotten picked over him at LT this year. I don't know how you get picked in the late 20s if you're that good of a prospect when guards like Leonard Davis went #2 overall.

 

[riverside4]

But wasn't Davis a tackle big diff between tackles and guards. Tackles always get drafted top 20 dont c guards going then.

 

[xwalker]

It seems like every year another person is the best prospect in a decade. Matt Kalil was a prodigy last year, and now there are 3 guys who would've gotten picked over him at LT this year. I don't know how you get picked in the late 20s if you're that good of a prospect when guards like Leonard Davis went #2 overall.

I have not seen anybody say that the OTs in this draft are better than Kalil.

Leonard Davis was picked to play LT, not Guard.

 

[riverside4]

I have not seen anybody say that the OTs in this draft are better than Kalil.

Leonard Davis was picked to play LT, not Guard.

Didn't we get him from the Cards because he didn't live up to where he was picked and switched him to RG.

 

[DFWJC]

I have not seen anybody say that the OTs in this draft are better than Kalil.
.

Funny you should say that.
Charlie Casserly just said quite possibly ALL THREE OTs are at least as good or better than Joe Thomas when he was coming out.
They have them higher than Kalil. The prodigy was Joe Thomas.

In any case. Minny fleeced Cleveland when the Browns moved up one spot to get Richardson...so they gave Minn. and extra 4th, 5th, and 7th to move up one spot, whicle Minn still got their man Kalil.
I guess we have to assume that Cleveland got suckered into thinking they were ina bidding war with another team for Minnesota's spot, because everyone knew the Vikings were taking Kalil.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Personally, I think DeCastro is the better prospect. With his athleticism and size (6'5), I think he could become the best guard in the league. He does need to add some strength to become a better in line blocker, but as a rookie, his struggles aren't that big of a deal.

Cooper, doesn't have the same long term potential that DeCastro does, but I think he'll have better immediate success. He's built like an NFL guard right now, and due to him being 6'2, he likely won't have the in line problems DeCastro did. But I really don't see as much upside with Cooper.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

Didn't we get him from the Cards because he didn't live up to where he was picked and switched him to RG.

We did. He didn't have the best feet for the Tackle position, but he was a good Guard.

 

[xwalker]

For you line gurus out there .... how do you think Cooper compares with DeCastro who was pimped last year by everyone to be the best guard prospect to come out in a decade?

DeCastro played with near perfect technique in college; however, physically, he was somewhat average.

Cooper is super athletic and plays with more power than DeCastro. They might have similar weight room strength, but shorter Guards like Cooper have a leverage advantage over 6-5 Guards like DeCastro.

 

[Verdict]

It seems like every year another person is the best prospect in a decade. Matt Kalil was a prodigy last year, and now there are 3 guys who would've gotten picked over him at LT this year. I don't know how you get picked in the late 20s if you're that good of a prospect when guards like Leonard Davis went #2 overall.

Maybe that's true, but the point remains that MANY people were pimping him as the best guard in a decade. Their words, not mine. So, the question remains.... How does Cooper stack up against DeCastro? How he stacks up may give some light on where he might go.

Also, how do you guys think Cooper would compare to Nick Mangold who went late in the first if I remember correctly?

 

[Picksix]

It seems like every year another person is the best prospect in a decade. Matt Kalil was a prodigy last year, and now there are 3 guys who would've gotten picked over him at LT this year. I don't know how you get picked in the late 20s if you're that good of a prospect when guards like Leonard Davis went #2 overall.

If not for Luck and RGIII, Kalil most likely would have gone #1. Joeckel and Fisher are ranked very high this year, but I doubt they are ranked higher than Kalil would be. Davis was a tackle coming out of Texas.

As for Cooper, I'm no guru, but most of the ones I follow rank Cooper ahead of DeCastro.

 

[honyock]

For you line gurus out there .... how do you think Cooper compares with DeCastro who was pimped last year by everyone to be the best guard prospect to come out in a decade?

It seems like there was some serious DeCastro backlash on CZ during and after the season last year. He was so coveted here leading up to the draft, and when he struggled in the preseason for the Steelers before his injury, there's been a lot of negative chatter about him and about those who saw him as an ideal pick for us.

We really may not know about DeCastro as a pro for a couple of years. After that nasty injury, who knows when or if he'll be at full strength again. When you get past all the jabs, it was just really unfortunate for him.

 

[Verdict]

DeCastro played with near perfect technique in college; however, physically, he was somewhat average.

Cooper is super athletic and plays with more power than DeCastro. They might have similar weight room strength, but shorter Guards like Cooper have a leverage advantage over 6-5 Guards like DeCastro.

Thanks for the direct reply to my question.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Didn't we get him from the Cards because he didn't live up to where he was picked and switched him to RG.

yea, but it doesn't change the fact that he was a tackle prospect that went #2, not a guard prospect that went #2.

 

[xwalker]

Funny you should say that.
Charlie Casserly just said quite possibly ALL THREE OTs are at least as good or better than Joe Thomas when he was coming out.
They have them higher than Kalil. The prodigy was Joe Thomas.

In any case. Minny fleeced Cleveland when the Browns moved up one spot to get Richardson...so they gave Minn. and extra 4th, 5th, and 7th to move up one spot, whicle Minn still got their man Kalil.
I guess we have to assume that Cleveland got suckered into thinking they were ina bidding war with another team for Minnesota's spot, because everyone knew the Vikings were taking Kalil.

I don't watch or listen to Casserly, the guy that drafted David Carr and Heath Shuler.

 

[Verdict]

I don't watch or listen to Casserly, the guy that drafted David Carr and Heath Shuler.

I don't blame you for being skeptical of Casserly, but quite honestly I think if Carr had gone to a decent team he might have been a world beater. But unfortunately he got beat to death until he was totally shell shocked. He was literally a piñata behind that line if you can call it that. That is one of the most unfair situations I have seen a guy go to in recent memory. I don't think he ever recovered from that psychologically.

 

[jterrell]

Cooper is the better pure athlete.

He is WAYYYY faster. The 40 times were 5.43 for DeCastro and 5.07 for Cooper.

Cooper also had a solid difference in the broad jump.
DeCastro shined at lateral movement drills.
He was clearly a technician and has NFL caliber technique in all the small area or lateral drills.

DeCastro had the benefit of facing some impressive Oregon DTs that had success in the NFL so there was tape of him handling monsters.

My issue with DeCastro was then and remains, upside. I don't see a guy who can be Carl Nicks or Logan Mankins. I see a very solid starter but not an All Pro. Taking an OG early you want more than to fill a starting spot for 10 years. You want a guy you can run behind on 3rd and 1. I was and am not sure DeCastro is that guy on a consistent basis.

I'd rank them Warmack, Cooper then DeCastro.

DeCastro is the safest bet of them all as a long-term starter but has the lowest ceiling imho. Warmack could be Carl Nicks but could also fall below that as a pure road grader who struggles with quickness. Cooper is a wild card to me. He is a phenomenal athlete who has tremendous potential.

Warmack has the longest arms of the 3 by far. DeCastro has short arms for a guy 6'5".

 

[xwalker]

Cooper, doesn't have the same long term potential that DeCastro does, but I think he'll have better immediate success. He's built like an NFL guard right now, and due to him being 6'2, he likely won't have the in line problems DeCastro did. But I really don't see as much upside with Cooper.

That makes no sense to me.

Cooper is a super athletic Guard that plays with power. How is his long term potential limited?

DeCastro played with near perfect technique in college was is somewhat average athletically. At 316 lbs and 34 reps on the bench, DeCastro should have been ready to contribute as a rookie.

 

[jterrell]

That makes no sense to me.

Cooper is a super athletic Guard that plays with power. How is his long term potential limited?

DeCastro played with near perfect technique in college was is somewhat average athletically. At 316 lbs and 34 reps on the bench, DeCastro should have been ready to contribute as a rookie.

I am in agreement with you 100% here.

DeCastro had pure technique but less upside.

DeCastro may have been the best OG to ever go through some of the OL drills at the combine but he struggled pretty badly in some of the other drills that weren't as controlled. He was terrible at times in pass coverage when asked to kick out like an OT would. Admittedly, the DE have huge advantages in those drills but the natural athleticism edge was very, very clear.

DeCastro tested well in the bench but that can be very misleading. There really needs to be a metric that ties bench press to arm length and grades along that curve.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't watch or listen to Casserly, the guy that drafted David Carr and Heath Shuler.

Just telling you that there are people out there that say there are guys in this draft rated higher than Kalil.
Take from it whatever you want.


Yeah, Shuler for sure was a bad pick. He did not play Oline though.

Casserly does get credit for bringing in Pro Bowl lineman Jon Bostic and Joe Jacoby.

He's also the guy who got trashed for passing on Reggie Bush and Vince Young while taking the superior Mario Williams---and got fired for it.

Hoston's current team has abuch of his picks: DeMeco Ryans, Andre Johnson, Jerome Mathis, Owen Daniels, etc.

Anyway, Casserly isn't the only one that rates Kalil about the same as this current group.

As for the main topic, I agree with you on Cooper vs Decastro.