Cooper vs DeCastro

[xwalker]

DeCastro tested well in the bench but that can be very misleading. There really needs to be a metric that ties bench press to arm length and grades along that curve.

Yes, my unofficial and unscientific adjustment is 2 reps per inch of arm length.

Example:
Tyron Smith did 31 reps at 36+ arm length.

DeCastro did 34 reps at 32+ arm length.

Adjusted:
TS: 31 reps
DD: 26 reps

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That makes no sense to me.

Cooper is a super athletic Guard that plays with power. How is his long term potential limited?

DeCastro played with near perfect technique in college was is somewhat average athletically. At 316 lbs and 34 reps on the bench, DeCastro should have been ready to contribute as a rookie.

The best guards in the league are typically 6'4 or taller, even the athletic ones fit in this range. So at 6'2, I do question how much stronger he can get without losing the athletic ability that makes him a top prospect. Same for Chance Warmack, how much weight can he lose in order to become a better athlete, before he loses the strength that makes him a top prospect.

With Decastro I do see the ability to dominate in any scheme. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't judge him based off a rookie season where he injured his ACL and MCL in preseason. As far as his "averege athleticism" he compares to Steve Hutchinson pretty well

DeCastro

height 6'4.5
weight 316
40 yard 5.32
20 yard 3.03
10 yard 1.79
vertical 29.5
broad 8'2''
20 yard ss 4.56
3 cone 7.3

Hutchinson

height 6'5
weight 315
40 yard 5.15
20 yard 2.97
10 yard 1.77
vertical 33.5
broad 8'10''
20 yard ss 4.74
3 cone 7.82

DeCastro does need to get stronger. It was known before the draft, and he did go to a major college program, but for a rookie, it's not that big a deal.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think Cooper is a better prospect then DeCastro. I never really thought DeCastro was all that last year. I thought he was good but not bullet proof. I think the versatility of Cooper will make him better.

I also don't believe that all three of the OT are better prospects then Thomas. In fact, I don't believe any of them are as good a prospect as Thomas was but remember, Thomas was not considered to be as good as he is coming out. Long was considered to be a better prospect the next year and that was not the case. Thomas is clearly the better Tackle of the two.

 

[xwalker]

I don't blame you for being skeptical of Casserly, but quite honestly I think if Carr had gone to a decent team he might have been a world beater. But unfortunately he got beat to death until he was totally shell shocked. He was literally a piñata behind that line if you can call it that. That is one of the most unfair situations I have seen a guy go to in recent memory. I don't think he ever recovered from that psychologically.

Agree on Carr, but I would blame the GM for putting him in that situation.

If I were building a team, my 1st priority would be the OLine. I would sign some Free Agents and draft some OLinemen even if it required overspending or making some slight reaches in the draft.

 

[xwalker]

In fact, I don't believe any of them are as good a prospect as Thomas was but remember, Thomas was not considered to be as good as he is coming out.

That was probably the draft pundits opinion more than NFL teams opinions.

He was drafted #3 with #1 and #2 being a QB and Calvin Johnson.

 

[superpunk]

Decastro is a JAG. Solid player nothing more, the Kyle Kosier of overhyped draft prospects. He was the best guard prospect last year, and Cowboys fans - desperate to do something to the offensive line - fell too in love with him and lost all historical perspective on where guards are typically selected. He went where he needed to go - the guards coming out this year, especially Warmack, are far better prospects. Hopefully he'll be available late first.

 

[xwalker]

The best guards in the league are typically 6'4 or taller, even the athletic ones fit in this range. So at 6'2, I do question how much stronger he can get without losing the athletic ability that makes him a top prospect. Same for Chance Warmack, how much weight can he lose in order to become a better athlete, before he loses the strength that makes him a top prospect.

You're the only person that I've seen that is worried about a Guard being 6-2. You like DeCastro at 6-5, but he has 32" arms. The reason, IMO, that you don't see more 6-2 Guards, is because most 6-2 players have short arms like Costa. As long as a 6-2 Guard has 33'+ arm length, I don't see any issue with the height.

The perfect height for an OG is 6-3. I have proof. Larry Allen is 6-3.

 

[burmafrd]

I don't blame you for being skeptical of Casserly, but quite honestly I think if Carr had gone to a decent team he might have been a world beater. But unfortunately he got beat to death until he was totally shell shocked. He was literally a piñata behind that line if you can call it that. That is one of the most unfair situations I have seen a guy go to in recent memory. I don't think he ever recovered from that psychologically.

agree. I don't know how good Carr COULD have been but he was sacked 240 times in 4 years. I don't care who you are, no one can take that kind of beating and not be affected. And who knows how many times he was hit besides the sacks. The Texans were monumentally stupid early in their history for not working to build a O line.

jerruh please take note.

 

[burmafrd]

The best guards in the league are typically 6'4 or taller, even the athletic ones fit in this range. So at 6'2, I do question how much stronger he can get without losing the athletic ability that makes him a top prospect. Same for Chance Warmack, how much weight can he lose in order to become a better athlete, before he loses the strength that makes him a top prospect.

With Decastro I do see the ability to dominate in any scheme. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't judge him based off a rookie season where he injured his ACL and MCL in preseason. As far as his "averege athleticism" he compares to Steve Hutchinson pretty well

DeCastro

height 6'4.5
weight 316
40 yard 5.32
20 yard 3.03
10 yard 1.79
vertical 29.5
broad 8'2''
20 yard ss 4.56
3 cone 7.3

Hutchinson

height 6'5
weight 315
40 yard 5.15
20 yard 2.97
10 yard 1.77
vertical 33.5
broad 8'10''
20 yard ss 4.74
3 cone 7.82

DeCastro does need to get stronger. It was known before the draft, and he did go to a major college program, but for a rookie, it's not that big a deal.

anyone falling in love with numbers will always get their clocks cleaned in the real world.

LA was 6'3

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

agree. I don't know how good Carr COULD have been but he was sacked 240 times in 4 years. I don't care who you are, no one can take that kind of beating and not be affected. And who knows how many times he was hit besides the sacks. The Texans were monumentally stupid early in their history for not working to build a O line.

jerruh please take note.

I agree burm. They ruined that kid.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

anyone falling in love with numbers will always get their clocks cleaned in the real world.

LA was 6'3

So, Cooper is still short, according to the "real world."

 

[rash]

Cooper is a rare physical specimen.

Haven't seen a guy with this high of a ceiling at the guard position for a while.

Definitely worth a top 10 pick in my books. If he is available at 18, my 60" will be broken if Jerry doesn't select him

 

[Manwiththeplan]

6'3 isn't the perfect height for a guard in today's NFL. Maybe when allen was playing, but not anymore. Case in point, allen was an all pro tackle one year. Today he would be the shortest tackle in the league. In the past ten or so years just about every position has gotten bigger. Except QB which seems to be getting smaller (but faster).

So, out of curiosity, who was the last pro bowl guard at 6'2 or shorter?

 

[jterrell]

The best guards in the league are typically 6'4 or taller, even the athletic ones fit in this range. So at 6'2, I do question how much stronger he can get without losing the athletic ability that makes him a top prospect. Same for Chance Warmack, how much weight can he lose in order to become a better athlete, before he loses the strength that makes him a top prospect.

With Decastro I do see the ability to dominate in any scheme. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't judge him based off a rookie season where he injured his ACL and MCL in preseason. As far as his "averege athleticism" he compares to Steve Hutchinson pretty well

DeCastro

height 6'4.5
weight 316
40 yard 5.32
20 yard 3.03
10 yard 1.79
vertical 29.5
broad 8'2''
20 yard ss 4.56
3 cone 7.3

Hutchinson

height 6'5
weight 315
40 yard 5.15
20 yard 2.97
10 yard 1.77
vertical 33.5
broad 8'10''
20 yard ss 4.74
3 cone 7.82

DeCastro does need to get stronger. It was known before the draft, and he did go to a major college program, but for a rookie, it's not that big a deal.

You have to use real numbers if you want to make a point. They both tested at the combine.

Hutch ran the 40 in 5.15
DeCastro in 5.43

Vert Jump
DeCastro 29.5"
Hutch 33.5"

Broad Jump
Hutch 106"
DeCastro 98"

DeCastro held his own in the lateral movement drills as we've discussed but the pure athleticism is not near equivalent.

 

[jterrell]

6'3 isn't the perfect height for a guard in today's NFL. Maybe when allen was playing, but not anymore. Case in point, allen was an all pro tackle one year. Today he would be the shortest tackle in the league. In the past ten or so years just about every position has gotten bigger. Except QB which seems to be getting smaller (but faster).

So, out of curiosity, who was the last pro bowl guard at 6'2 or shorter?

Both Warmack and Cooper will be listed at 6'3" on NFL rosters so you really don't have a point.

There have been plenty of listed 6'3" pro bowl OGs yearly.
Ben Grubbs is 6'2" and change.

Larry Allen in his prime would be the best OG playing today. His 6'3" frame wouldn't hurt one bit.

As to the players getting bigger stuff that is largely not true in the modern era. They are certainly getting faster but teams sacrifice size for speed at many positions. We saw 250 pound DEs go in round 1 last year. A guy like Jim Jeffcoat weight 270+.

Tavon Austin is going to go round 1 at mini-player size.

QBs have certainly shrunk with 6'5" guys becoming almost a rarity.

 

[gimmesix]

DeCastro played with near perfect technique in college; however, physically, he was somewhat average.

Cooper is super athletic and plays with more power than DeCastro. They might have similar weight room strength, but shorter Guards like Cooper have a leverage advantage over 6-5 Guards like DeCastro.

I believe you are correct, except about the power. I think they are considered similar in that regard.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You have to use real numbers if you want to make a point. They both tested at the combine.

.

I got my numbers from nfldraftscout. They may have been pro day numbers but they r real

 

[Kristen82]

Both Warmack and Cooper will be listed at 6'3" on NFL rosters so you really don't have a point.

There have been plenty of listed 6'3" pro bowl OGs yearly.
Ben Grubbs is 6'2" and change.

Larry Allen in his prime would be the best OG playing today. His 6'3" frame wouldn't hurt one bit.

As to the players getting bigger stuff that is largely not true in the modern era. They are certainly getting faster but teams sacrifice size for speed at many positions. We saw 250 pound DEs go in round 1 last year. A guy like Jim Jeffcoat weight 270+.

Tavon Austin is going to go round 1 at mini-player size.

QBs have certainly shrunk with 6'5" guys becoming almost a rarity.

Isn't being short to a certain extent and having a low centre of gravity a good thing for an OL? Harder to push you off your feet. And if you have long arms too you can still hold bigger guys off.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

DeCastro suffered from agenda-itus.

 

[burmafrd]

So, Cooper is still short, according to the "real world."

for people with common sense no.