Cooper vs Jones

[Creeper]

Its not an apples to apples comparison. Cooper is going to cost around $19 million per year to sign. Jones will probably be in the $15 million range.

So the real question is, which one is a better value for the Cowboys. The draft is also a consideration but not as much as the value. Me personally, I have soured on Cooper. Since the end of last season when he basically did nothing I have had this feeling he is not a winner. He does not have the kind of attitude I want on my team. His performances against top CBs also has me questioning his heart. Michael Irvin, for example, used to get super pumped to play against the best CBs, like Deion. And he did well. I don't see that from Cooper. Maybe I am wrong, but I'd rather have a guy with more heart and fire. If the draft has one of those guys, I'd take him and take my chances. If 2019 taught us anything its that this team needs an injection of heart and lots of it.

I don't see Jones as that kind of player either. But he seems more consistent even without the INTs. If I could get a deal done with Jones for under $15 million, I would do it. It solves on problem on defense and allows me some freedom in the draft.

 

[snapper]

I'm asking you what Cooper has done to elevate us. Everyone points to 2018, like the reason for that wasn't our O-Line performing better in the run game. Cooper had 2 big games down that stretch, and ghosted the final 4 games. One game we got shut out in. So again, it's not as though our offense was dominating. In 2019 our biggest positives was the fact we got our running game going and our defense held offenses from scoring.

This season, with Cooper, he ghosted, had bad drops, and had some phantom injury that got him on the sideline in the most important game of the season. All we managed with him was 8-8. He didn't elevate our offense.

Understood, but as I said...EVERYONE except L.P. did not play up to their potential in 2019.

Cooper at least made plays that won games in 2018. Jones was just solid. I'm prioritizing the younger guy that is a proven #1 receiver with playmaking ability over the aging corner who is athletic and just covers well.

 

[mattjames2010]

Understood, but as I said...EVERYONE except L.P. did not play up to their potential in 2019.

Cooper at least made plays that won games in 2018. Jones was just solid. I'm prioritizing the younger guy that is a proven #1 receiver with playmaking ability over the aging corner who is athletic and just covers well.

So the defense being ranked in the the top 10 isn't on Jones, but our offense being just "OK" in 2018 is something we should put on Cooper? Well ok then LOL

 

[snapper]

So the defense being ranked in the the top 10 isn't on Jones, but our offense being just "OK" in 2018 is something we should put on Cooper? Well ok then LOL

Cooper > Jones. Both underperformed in 2019. No more shall be said by me.

 

[mattjames2010]

Cooper > Jones. Both underperformed in 2019. No more shall be said by me.

Cooper being a WR alone makes him not "Greater" than Jones. Nature of the position.

 

[Runwildboys]

Jones may be the most consistent player, but wouldn't a different corner who forced turnovers actually be more valuable? You know, give our offense a shorter field or possibly get a defensive touchdown?

I look at it this way. A CB gets an interception, and it leads to a possibility of a score for our team.
A CB allows a TD, it's definitely a score for the other team.

 

[nightrain]

I am making the assumption that it is an either or with these two players and the money to keep either is about the same ball park.

Both are young, Cooper 25 and Jones 27, and in the prime of their careers. They both have size and speed for the position.

The positives far outweigh the negatives with both of these players; however, there is one advantage to Jones, this is a deep WR draft and that position is easier to fill in today's NFL passing league. It might take most of a season for a rook to get it but they do have Gallup and can keep Cobb.

The other lean toward Jones is that the D is mediocre and he's the most consistent player on it and just replacing him takes it back to where it was, it does not move it forward.

After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that they must keep both because they each make the other better. The time to strike is in the next two seasons.

There used to be this 6 Cornerstones of building a team, which might have changed with the times but 2 of those cornerstones have not changed, WR1 and cover CB. In fact, both, along with QB, have only increased in importance as the league moved more towards a passing and higher scoring league.

If I have to choose, make mine Jones because this D needs to improve and that's much tougher having to replace the most consistent player on it. One thing to consider about this lack of interceptions with him, he was fine at that at UConn and had 2 in the 7 games he started as a senior at CB. And you should ask yourself "was the scheme he's been playing conducive to interceptions"?

The other issue is this draft is much deeper at WR than CB and they do have then option of moving Gallup to WR1 or at least letting him compete for that. You like the idea of Awuzie, Brown (also up) or Lewis or a rookie CB moving into that spot? I prefer the rookie and don't even know who he is.

I know, it's a lot of money but the time to keep the band together is now. The window is open and if I showed you the stats for this team, on O and D, and you didn't know the record, would you guess 8-8? I want to see what this new coaching staff can do with this team and both of these players are key elements to this team. Yes, it is giving too much to too few but they're already in that mode, might as well go all in.

This would also allow them to address the D and ST in the draft better and yes, ST. The reason they've been so poor on ST is because they populate it with players not good enough to be starters. And if memory serves, McC seemed a lot more of a each piece is 1/3 of the team than Garrett ever was.

OK what say you, pick one or let me have it on why they can't keep both.

Signing Zeke killed any chance of signing both.

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

Signing Zeke killed any chance of signing both.

Agreed.

& now that we are here, some possible things will happen next:

HOLD OUTS by many players.

 

[beware_d-ware]

In the five season since 2015, there have been 2 receivers to have five 1,000 yard seasons.

-Mike Evans
-Julio Jones

Since 2015, there have 5 receivers that have had four 1,000 yard seasons.

-Odell Beckham
-Brandin Cooks
-DeAndre Hopkins
-Michael Thomas
-Amari Cooper

All of you guys in this thread trashing on Cooper don't seem to understand that he is only 25 years old and already sitting in some pretty rarefied air.

 

[Diehardblues]

If we pay Dak, it’s time for him to sink or swim without an All Star supporting cast. Our coaching will make up the difference.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think this whole Jones debate is overblown. He's really not that good as a CB. He doesnt get thrown to because of how the team played Awuzie. Keeping him off the ball and having him the last line of defense basically.

Jones was abused on anything inside. If a Wr could get him turned then it was reception. IMO the team had it right the first time in moving him to FS. He is very good with the play in front of him. He had his best season as a FS. Then these incompetent coaches turned him into a SS because Heath couldnt handle it.

This team would do itself alot of justice if they went to him with a new deal as the starting FS.

He was better in 2018 when our DL caused some havoc . Losing Gregory and Lawrence not as full speed in 2020 hurt the defense and secondary. Not to mention losing LVE and Smith not the same. Front 7 was noticeably down. And the back 4 felt it.

 

[glimmerman]

Sign Cooper and Dak to 3 or 4 year contracts and tag Jones. I don’t like the way Cooper seems to pout sometimes and has had injury problems. But he is good and Dak likes him.

 

[kskboys]

That isn't the right way to look at it. The draft is about building for the future, not just this year. There will always be WR and CB prospects in each draft. If you want to fill any position with a player that contribute immediately then you go the FA route.

But to get back to the point of the thread, I'm keeping Cooper over Jones.

Nice.

It's not about keeping Coop/Jones, it's about building a super bowl quality rosters. Two highly paid players can stop you from doing that.

 

[kskboys]

I agree with you about building but is that this brain trust? They'll take a chance on Gregory, Smith and Hill but then turn around and act as if the window is closing with other players.

That mad scientist in NE is mad because of one thing. He has the formula and he updates it every year when the cap comes out but the %'s do not change. It separates him from the rest of the league in that he does not see the player, he sees the position and how much he has allocated to that specific position in order to balance his ledger. That's why Brady had to take less to stay, because that's all Belichick was going to pay, the same with trading his DE and LB, he was not going to pay what he knew they would get . Do you think he would have blinked with Lawrence? He didn't even tag Flowers who was at the same level as Lawrence. He would not be paying Donald, Lawrence, Mack, Miller what tyey are making, he would have replaced them but the one area he will budge on is in his secondary.

Everyone harps about it's all about the pass rush...except him. He knows the secret is in the coverage first, not second. He has the best CB tandem in the league for a reason, he's been trying to build that through the draft and had to go FA. He knows if his guys can confuse and cover in those first 2 seconds, his pass rush has a better chance. So he will pay Gilmore and let Flowers walk because he knows the value of a cover corner.

The KC and SF were built w/ the DLine. Just sayin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fivetwos]

I just want guys who want to win.

The rap on Cooper before he came was that he was indifferent on that. I can certainly see why.

I want corners that want the ball, or.at least think about that. Jones is just there and reminds me of guys like Bradie James....just good enough to lose with.

Not saying not to replace these two, I'm just against large contracts to guys who were here and learned to be fine with mediocrity.

 

[Diehardblues]

I just want guys who want to win.

The rap on Cooper before he came was that he was indifferent on that. I can certainly see why.

I want corners that want the ball, or.at least think about that. Jones is just there and reminds me of guys like Bradie James....just good enough to lose with.

Not saying not to replace these two, I'm just against large contracts to guys who were here and learned to be fine with mediocrity.

Cooper looks disinterested to me. I see why Oakland traded him.

 

[fivetwos]

I'm also very against giving big cap space OR high picks on corners given the way the rules are now.

The very best guys are going to give up plays no matter what, especially if your pass rush isnt great.

So, especially if Jones prevents bringing a guy like Quinn back, forget it

 

[ThatJerryKid]

I would not have signed a RB to that contract and used that money to sign Cooper, Byron and Quinn. But that’s just me....

 

[quickccc]

Egals and Broncos both want Jones . Bronco's top priority is Jones.

Who is asking for Cooper ? Who is making Cooper their top priority in FA ?

Because teams are expecting cowboys to transition tag cooper, in more of an effort to keep him.

No one is expecting such a fight from cowboys on byron Jones as the expectation is to let him walk out the door scotch free without any cowboys resistance.
Note how we haven't even heard about a effortable negotiation with byron thru camp and regular season as we have with dak and cooper.

 

[CouchCoach]

Jones may be the most consistent player, but wouldn't a different corner who forced turnovers actually be more valuable? You know, give our offense a shorter field or possibly get a defensive touchdown?

Yes, where is he? I would prefer he get picks but I also prefer first he stop plays via pass defensed or tackle made.

If they let him walk, they will either have to get one in FA and pay him as much as they would Jones or draft one and there are some good ones around the area where they will pick, Fulton (LSU), Diggs (AL) and Henderson (FL) all have good size, speed and skills. And they all played in the SEC so they've faced some top flight talent and good run games. The issue is with a CB from LSU or Bama, he's coming from one of the better D's and secondary's. Both had better ones than the Cowboys.

One thing for sure in my mind, whichever player does not get re-signed, that dictates the first pick. That's another reason I would like both signed, use that 1st on a DT or S and not to replace one of the better players on the team. They don't get better just replacing.