Cooper vs Jones

[USArmyVet]

I am making the assumption that it is an either or with these two players and the money to keep either is about the same ball park.

Both are young, Cooper 25 and Jones 27, and in the prime of their careers. They both have size and speed for the position.

The positives far outweigh the negatives with both of these players; however, there is one advantage to Jones, this is a deep WR draft and that position is easier to fill in today's NFL passing league. It might take most of a season for a rook to get it but they do have Gallup and can keep Cobb.

The other lean toward Jones is that the D is mediocre and he's the most consistent player on it and just replacing him takes it back to where it was, it does not move it forward.

After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that they must keep both because they each make the other better. The time to strike is in the next two seasons.

There used to be this 6 Cornerstones of building a team, which might have changed with the times but 2 of those cornerstones have not changed, WR1 and cover CB. In fact, both, along with QB, have only increased in importance as the league moved more towards a passing and higher scoring league.

If I have to choose, make mine Jones because this D needs to improve and that's much tougher having to replace the most consistent player on it. One thing to consider about this lack of interceptions with him, he was fine at that at UConn and had 2 in the 7 games he started as a senior at CB. And you should ask yourself "was the scheme he's been playing conducive to interceptions"?

The other issue is this draft is much deeper at WR than CB and they do have then option of moving Gallup to WR1 or at least letting him compete for that. You like the idea of Awuzie, Brown (also up) or Lewis or a rookie CB moving into that spot? I prefer the rookie and don't even know who he is.

I know, it's a lot of money but the time to keep the band together is now. The window is open and if I showed you the stats for this team, on O and D, and you didn't know the record, would you guess 8-8? I want to see what this new coaching staff can do with this team and both of these players are key elements to this team. Yes, it is giving too much to too few but they're already in that mode, might as well go all in.

This would also allow them to address the D and ST in the draft better and yes, ST. The reason they've been so poor on ST is because they populate it with players not good enough to be starters. And if memory serves, McC seemed a lot more of a each piece is 1/3 of the team than Garrett ever was.

OK what say you, pick one or let me have it on why they can't keep both.

Byron Jones....no question. Dallas can't keep paying offensive players top dollar (see offensive line, Elliott, and possibly Dak) and continue to ignore the defense (overpaying for Lawrence and Smith aside).

 

[CouchCoach]

Cooper looks disinterested to me. I see why Oakland traded him.

That's his natural look, he's so low key, he looks like he'd rather be taking a nap.

OAK, Gruden, didn't want him because of the disappearing act, this has been going on ever since he got in the league. When he's on, he's a top 5 WR but then he will go invisible, especially in road games where he is even more critical, and he's not in the top 32. It is inexplicable unless there are hidden injury issues.

The problem with Cooper is the problem with the team, consistency. Neither can sustain the good stuff. That is also the word the Dakaters have used about his accuracy.

I am assuming McC has watched quite a bit of film on Cooper, since he's going to be a FA, and will have some say in his being re-signed.

I do think Jones is gone because there's been no chin boogie about trying to negotiate with him and the Joneses are follow the ball, which is why the D is the second thought. Or he could be their tag target?

 

[Diehardblues]

That's his natural look, he's so low key, he looks like he'd rather be taking a nap.

OAK, Gruden, didn't want him because of the disappearing act, this has been going on ever since he got in the league. When he's on, he's a top 5 WR but then he will go invisible, especially in road games where he is even more critical, and he's not in the top 32. It is inexplicable unless there are hidden injury issues.

The problem with Cooper is the problem with the team, consistency. Neither can sustain the good stuff. That is also the word the Dakaters have used about his accuracy.

I am assuming McC has watched quite a bit of film on Cooper, since he's going to be a FA, and will have some say in his being re-signed.

I do think Jones is gone because there's been no chin boogie about trying to negotiate with him and the Joneses are follow the ball, which is why the D is the second thought. Or he could be their tag target?

Jones isn’t worthy of discussion. Without our best pass rush in 2018 he’s been disappointing 1st round pick.

If he goes somewhere with a havoc causing DL he will look good.

Cooper would be gone too if they weren’t so worried about Dak looking like he did in 2018 before they traded for him and of course getting blasted for using a 1st rd pick if we let him walk.

 

[ondaedg]

Egals and Broncos both want Jones . Bronco's top priority is Jones.

Who is asking for Cooper ? Who is making Cooper their top priority in FA ?

Nobody because your sources said so?

 

[ondaedg]

I'm asking you what Cooper has done to elevate us. Everyone points to 2018, like the reason for that wasn't our O-Line performing better in the run game. Cooper had 2 big games down that stretch, and ghosted the final 4 games. One game we got shut out in. So again, it's not as though our offense was dominating. In 2019 our biggest positives was the fact we got our running game going and our defense held offenses from scoring.

This season, with Cooper, he ghosted, had bad drops, and had some phantom injury that got him on the sideline in the most important game of the season. All we managed with him was 8-8. He didn't elevate our offense.

Our defense gave us 4 takeaways in 8 losses. Let that sink in for a moment.
This defense was awful.

 

[MWH1967]

I keep Coop... Draft the LSU Safety @ 17

 

[SSoup]

If re-signing Byron means not keeping Quinn, I think Byron playing behind a worthless pass-rush is no longer able to maintain coverage long enough to be worth much. I'm not in a hurry to pay huge money to a CB who will be exposed playing behind a d-line led by a 5-sack guy. I'd rather pay for the pass-rush to give us a better chance. A good corner behind a garbage pass-rush is still easily beaten. A lesser corner behind a better pass-rush actually has a chance.

And that's all generously assuming he'd still be worthwhile to us as a cornerback in the first place.

Don't forget he's a guy whose viability at that position fluctuated depending on the personnel in our coaching staff previously. Without Kris Richard fetishizing a certain type of corner, is he still even a good corner for us? Who knows?

 

[CouchCoach]

I keep Coop... Draft the LSU Safety @ 17

S isn't going to fill the hole at CB, they'd take the Bama, LSU or FL CB at 17, if they let Jones walk. If they kept Cooper and Jones, then they could take Delpit or McKinney or trade it for Adams.

The problem with having the CB1 and WR1 up at the same time, losing one pretty much sets the 1st pick and have they progressed or just treading water? And this is not a good team with the 2nd and 3rd day picks.

 

[mattjames2010]

Our defense gave us 4 takeaways in 8 losses. Let that sink in for a moment.
This defense was awful.

That's one aspect of a defense, they were hardly "awful" as a whole. Going to blame the defense for the GB game when Dak turned the ball over 3 times? How about the Saints game? Or the Philly game?

 

[mattjames2010]

S isn't going to fill the hole at CB, they'd take the Bama, LSU or FL CB at 17, if they let Jones walk. If they kept Cooper and Jones, then they could take Delpit or McKinney or trade it for Adams.

The problem with having the CB1 and WR1 up at the same time, losing one pretty much sets the 1st pick and have they progressed or just treading water? And this is not a good team with the 2nd and 3rd day picks.

This is an incredibly deep WR class. You might be able to get a #1 WR in the late second or early third. That's how deep it is.

 

[Runwildboys]

That's his natural look, he's so low key, he looks like he'd rather be taking a nap.

OAK, Gruden, didn't want him because of the disappearing act, this has been going on ever since he got in the league. When he's on, he's a top 5 WR but then he will go invisible, especially in road games where he is even more critical, and he's not in the top 32. It is inexplicable unless there are hidden injury issues.

The problem with Cooper is the problem with the team, consistency. Neither can sustain the good stuff. That is also the word the Dakaters have used about his accuracy.

I am assuming McC has watched quite a bit of film on Cooper, since he's going to be a FA, and will have some say in his being re-signed.

I do think Jones is gone because there's been no chin boogie about trying to negotiate with him and the Joneses are follow the ball, which is why the D is the second thought. Or he could be their tag target?

I wonder if Cooper becomes a no-show at away games because the hostile crowd hurts his feelings.

 

[CouchCoach]

I wonder if Cooper becomes a no-show at away games because the hostile crowd hurts his feelings.

LMAO

 

[MWH1967]

S isn't going to fill the hole at CB, they'd take the Bama, LSU or FL CB at 17, if they let Jones walk. If they kept Cooper and Jones, then they could take Delpit or McKinney or trade it for Adams.

The problem with having the CB1 and WR1 up at the same time, losing one pretty much sets the 1st pick and have they progressed or just treading water? And this is not a good team with the 2nd and 3rd day picks.

Delpit is a natural ball player...He can hang with the best.

 

[CouchCoach]

This is an incredibly deep WR class. You might be able to get a #1 WR in the late second or early third. That's how deep it is.

I agree, this looks like a really good class with a good variety of size and speed. Going to be interesting to see how Ruggs does at the Combine. Coming into the NFL, he could be the 2nd fastest player to Hill. The fact that he played on the same team as Jeudy isn't going to hurt him. It is probable that Bama has 6 of the first 20 off the board, QB, OT, 2WR, CB and S. And 4 of those in the top 10.

 

[CouchCoach]

Delpit is a natural ball player...He can hang with the best.

He's an all over the field player. He could be the answer to Woody retiring that they never answered. Smart player too. I like McKinney and that would give the Cowboys the all Xavier's at Safety but Delpit has the size and range at 6'3".

The only way that I can see S at 17 if is they keep Jones. We haven't heard a lot about them negotiating with him but he could be their 1st choice at the t tag.

 

[xwalker]

I am making the assumption that it is an either or with these two players and the money to keep either is about the same ball park.

Both are young, Cooper 25 and Jones 27, and in the prime of their careers. They both have size and speed for the position.

The positives far outweigh the negatives with both of these players; however, there is one advantage to Jones, this is a deep WR draft and that position is easier to fill in today's NFL passing league. It might take most of a season for a rook to get it but they do have Gallup and can keep Cobb.

The other lean toward Jones is that the D is mediocre and he's the most consistent player on it and just replacing him takes it back to where it was, it does not move it forward.

After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that they must keep both because they each make the other better. The time to strike is in the next two seasons.

There used to be this 6 Cornerstones of building a team, which might have changed with the times but 2 of those cornerstones have not changed, WR1 and cover CB. In fact, both, along with QB, have only increased in importance as the league moved more towards a passing and higher scoring league.

If I have to choose, make mine Jones because this D needs to improve and that's much tougher having to replace the most consistent player on it. One thing to consider about this lack of interceptions with him, he was fine at that at UConn and had 2 in the 7 games he started as a senior at CB. And you should ask yourself "was the scheme he's been playing conducive to interceptions"?

The other issue is this draft is much deeper at WR than CB and they do have then option of moving Gallup to WR1 or at least letting him compete for that. You like the idea of Awuzie, Brown (also up) or Lewis or a rookie CB moving into that spot? I prefer the rookie and don't even know who he is.

I know, it's a lot of money but the time to keep the band together is now. The window is open and if I showed you the stats for this team, on O and D, and you didn't know the record, would you guess 8-8? I want to see what this new coaching staff can do with this team and both of these players are key elements to this team. Yes, it is giving too much to too few but they're already in that mode, might as well go all in.

This would also allow them to address the D and ST in the draft better and yes, ST. The reason they've been so poor on ST is because they populate it with players not good enough to be starters. And if memory serves, McC seemed a lot more of a each piece is 1/3 of the team than Garrett ever was.

OK what say you, pick one or let me have it on why they can't keep both.

WR is unequivocally NOT easier to fill.

Dak needs good route running WRs and Cooper is the best route running WR in the NFL. Aikman says best ever.

Byron Jones is a good guy and good coverage CB but he never gets picks. The few INTs he has had were deflections or hail-mary type plays. He has never jumped a route.

I'm a big fan of Jones character but Cooper has far more value to the team.

Jones was the physical prototype for the Kris Richard kick-step press scheme. It's unknown how good he'll be in another scheme. He does not have they typical short-area uber-agility of many past great CBs. Richard Sherman is making it work in another scheme and Jones is more athletic than RS but it's still an unknown.

 

[CouchCoach]

WR is unequivocally NOT easier to fill.

Dak needs good route running WRs and Cooper is the best route running WR in the NFL. Aikman says best ever.

Byron Jones is a good guy and good coverage CB but he never gets picks. The few INTs he has had were deflections or hail-mary type plays. He has never jumped a route.

I'm a big fan of Jones character but Cooper has far more value to the team.

Jones was the physical prototype for the Kris Richard kick-step press scheme. It's unknown how good he'll be in another scheme. He does not have they typical short-area uber-agility of many past great CBs. Richard Sherman is making it work in another scheme and Jones is more athletic than RS but it's still an unknown.

I agree that he needs good route runners but explain why Cooper disappears. Seems to be that the games best route runner would be the most consistent. And this disappearing act isn't new, ask any DFS player, he was the most hit or miss WR you could start. He had Crabtree on the other side and would just drop off the face of the earth. I would expect the best route runner in the game to do better than 5 targets or less in 5 games. In 7 games, he had < 4 catches. That is not #1WR production.

The response might be but this is supposed to be a run team, they're paying the RB 15M. And that is at least 50% of the problem. Show me the team with a RB and WR at the top, or near it in salary that's doing anything and that's without making the QB a top 5.

If they're going to allocate 17-20M a season for a #1WR, he needs to be that in more games. And he needs to show up for everyone of them and not get benched during a game.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I am a fan of his going back to Bama because he's not a diva and he's talented. But there's a pattern established that doesn't deserve top 3 WR pay.