Could our inconsistent offense be due to inconsistency in philosophies of the HC and OC?

[RustyBourneHorse]

The offense has been good enough most of the year. It struggled late when the running game died. I think losing Steele had a lot to do with that. Losing Pollard in the 2nd quarter of the SF game killed the rushing attack completely. Some might argue they should have given Malik Davis some carries but he is not Tony Pollard. I can forgive Moore for not trusting Davis in hat situation.

Ultimately what came back to bite the Cowboys is they did not have a comparable WRs for Cooper after they traded him. We saw it all year. We started Denis Houston the first few games. Then had to rely on Noah Brown who had a good year but also made some big mistakes. When they go they just did not have enough playmakers on the field. Argue all you want about the OC and HC but at the end of the day it is the GM's responsibility to make sure there are enough weapons on offense to challenge the better defenses.

I had not issue trading Cooper. But if you are going to cut loose your best WR, then you have to do better than James Washington who played 2 games and was cut.

Oh, I'm fully aware that Jerry is mostly at fault for 1. The Cooper debacle, 2. Inadequate replacements, and 3. Poor roster creation. I still think that a new OC could help for the same reason that Quinn was able to turn around the defence.

 

[JustChip]

Has it occurred to anyone else that part of the reason that we are inconsistent on offense could be due to inconsistency in the philosophies of the HC and OC? Mike McCarthy comes from the Walsh/Marty Schottenheimer trees. Kellen Moore comes from the Jason Garrett/Scott Linehan trees. Those two styles are very different. It's why HCs, unless there's owner interference, will typicality sack the previous coaches to bring in people that share his philosophy. How can there be consistency on offense if the HC and OC's philosophies are not consistent?

I know a lot on here bag on Dak. However, I think the best thing we can do in the meantime is sack Moore and try new ideas that more aptly fit Mike McCarthy's style. Doing this should help us be more consistent.

Interesting thought. But i think it’s more about the inconsistency within Kellen himself. And probably more importantly, his scheme not the best for Dak.

To that 2nd point, Dak is at his best using play action. Yet, he goes empty backfield, which eliminates play action, on that fateful 2nd and 2 before the half. When I saw empty backfield, I fully expected Dak to run it there like Philly does with Hurts 4-5 times a game.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Interesting thought. But i think it’s more about the inconsistency within Kellen himself. And probably more importantly, his scheme not the best for Dak.

To that 2nd point, Dak is at his best using play action. Yet, he goes empty backfield, which eliminates play action, on that fateful 2nd and 2 before the half. When I saw empty backfield, I fully expected Dak to run it there like Philly does with Hurts 4-5 times a game.

Well exactly, and thats where a new OC could come in and use that consistently. Alternatively, if the new OC thinks a new QB is needed, then that's an option too. Obviously, option A would be great if the OC uses that strength of Dak to great effect. I think that'd be fantastic. If not, I'd hedge my bet by drafting a QB either this year or next year.

 

[Cmac]

My worry is that Dak is already indecisive in an offense he should be a master of..

You really want to change it? It could end in complete disaster…

....if Dak was doing this ALL of his career, you'd have me on that. But Dak hasn't been a interception machine like this......beyond bringing Dak back into the film room and correcting things...... when do we toss out some of the plays that don't work, aren't predictable, or suitable for yard & distance or coverages.......Hello Air Coryell Jr. you're not granted immunity anymore.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

....if Dak was doing this ALL of his career, you'd have me on that. But Dak hasn't been a interception machine like this......beyond bringing Dak back into the film room and correcting things...... when do we toss out some of the plays that don't work, aren't predictable, or suitable for yard & distance or coverages.......Hello Air Coryell Jr. you're not granted immunity anymore.

Exactly, and this is one of many areas where a new OC can be helpful. I think a change in OC can bring new ideas that can benefit Dak. If it doesn't work, then we get a new QB, no problem there either. Either way, we need to change because our offense has been the same for too long.

 

[JustChip]

That’s Jerry wanting to keep control.

He didn’t want to get rid of Garrett, he just couldn’t get away with it yet again.

Keeping Moore was basically the same as keeping Garrett. What’s even more ridiculous is the excuse was that they didn’t want to disturb what they had going on offensively…..as if it was anything different then than you’re seeing now.

I was ambivalent to the McCarthy hire, but not so Kellen simply because of what you say. I think the words used at the time was comfortability.

Plus, retaining Kellen just reiterated the disfunctional organization structure where the HC doesn’t have as much power to select his own staff.

 

[conner01]

Has it occurred to anyone else that part of the reason that we are inconsistent on offense could be due to inconsistency in the philosophies of the HC and OC? Mike McCarthy comes from the Walsh/Marty Schottenheimer trees. Kellen Moore comes from the Jason Garrett/Scott Linehan trees. Those two styles are very different. It's why HCs, unless there's owner interference, will typicality sack the previous coaches to bring in people that share his philosophy. How can there be consistency on offense if the HC and OC's philosophies are not consistent?

I know a lot on here bag on Dak. However, I think the best thing we can do in the meantime is sack Moore and try new ideas that more aptly fit Mike McCarthy's style. Doing this should help us be more consistent.

I’m no OC but play calling has to be with a strategy in mind. Routes have to have a specific intent and that’s not always to get open. Many times it’s intended to attract coverage away from another route
It may be just me but our play calling doesn’t seem to complement the talent or to setup another play to follow.
Not every play call works and just because a play doesn’t work doesn’t mean it’s a bad play call
But one play that was so obvious a bad call and read was the pick in front of Gallup. You can’t run a 10 yard comeback if the defender is playing 10 yards off. The comeback works only if you force the cb to turn up field
That route was a waste and the read and decision to throw that route was really baf

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I’m no OC but play calling has to be with a strategy in mind. Routes have to have a specific intent and that’s not always to get open. Many times it’s intended to attract coverage away from another route
It may be just me but our play calling doesn’t seem to complement the talent or to setup another play to follow.
Not every play call works and just because a play doesn’t work doesn’t mean it’s a bad play call
But one play that was so obvious a bad call and read was the pick in front of Gallup. You can’t run a 10 yard comeback if the defender is playing 10 yards off. The comeback works only if you force the cb to turn up field
That route was a waste and the read and decision to throw that route was really baf

Exactly, but that's what Moore loves us the curls.

 

[conner01]

Exactly, but that's what Moore loves us the curls.

Exactly, and I really don’t get it. With a big physical fast player like dez they could work some. But they work best in press coverage so the defender is turned and running. They don’t work if the defender is back pedaling because he can react fast then a reciever can stop and return. Gallup should have kept coming back. Dak should have seen that it wasn’t a good read. The results were critical in the game. If that was Michael Irvin he would have protected his QB lol
But if that was Troy he wouldn’t have thrown it either

 

[Mannix]

I think we will have to, and I will counter that running the same offense for 15 years won't help. At least with a new OC, we get fresh ideas. Dak can feasibly be cut next year as a June 1st cut with how his contract is structured. So, what I'd do is hire McCoy or Greg Roman, draft a QB in rounds 2-3, and tell Dak to learn their style and excel, or you'll get replaced next year with someone who can learn it better.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
early candidate for post of the weekend

 

[CowboyRoy]

Has it occurred to anyone else that part of the reason that we are inconsistent on offense could be due to inconsistency in the philosophies of the HC and OC? Mike McCarthy comes from the Walsh/Marty Schottenheimer trees. Kellen Moore comes from the Jason Garrett/Scott Linehan trees. Those two styles are very different. It's why HCs, unless there's owner interference, will typicality sack the previous coaches to bring in people that share his philosophy. How can there be consistency on offense if the HC and OC's philosophies are not consistent?

I know a lot on here bag on Dak. However, I think the best thing we can do in the meantime is sack Moore and try new ideas that more aptly fit Mike McCarthy's style. Doing this should help us be more consistent.

consistency is over blown.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The only option now is to get rid of the status quo when it comes to the offense.

it’s either feast or famine with them and scoring 1 TD in a divisional play-off game is unacceptable

Not against the niners it isn’t. But I agree zeke must go.

 

[CowboyRoy]

My worry is that Dak is already indecisive in an offense he should be a master of..

You really want to change it? It could end in complete disaster…

He’s not indecisive. He lead the #1 scoring offense in football. You sound foolish. He’s not Andy dalton mind you. Lol

 

[CATCH17]

He’s not indecisive. He lead the #1 scoring offense in football. You sound foolish. He’s not Andy dalton mind you. Lol

Shut up and learn for once.

The rest of the football world has caught on. My opinion is now mainstream and has played out like I said it would overtime.

Now go hide behind some meaningless stat.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Shut up and learn for once.

The rest of the football world has caught on. My opinion is now mainstream and has played out like I said it would overtime.

Now go hide behind some meaningless stat.

You know nothing about football.lol

you thought dalton was better than dak.

your opinion is garbage. Mainstream opinion is dak is a top 10 qb. You lose as always.

did you predict the cowboys to beat niners? Lol

i bet you did. Wrong again.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Given how the trouble seems to stem from how reads are made I have thought that for months.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think we will have to, and I will counter that running the same offense for 15 years won't help. At least with a new OC, we get fresh ideas. Dak can feasibly be cut next year as a June 1st cut with how his contract is structured. So, what I'd do is hire McCoy or Greg Roman, draft a QB in rounds 2-3, and tell Dak to learn their style and excel, or you'll get replaced next year with someone who can learn it better.

So Dak is too stupid to learn anything? What about him makes you think he cannot learn?

 

[buddahjoe445]

Garrett does not have a coaching tree. He was the broken twig that hung for dear life and sucked the life out of the tree.

 

[sunalsorises]

I don’t think Moore and McCarthy see eye to eye. I imagine McCarthy would like to run more and control the game better. I imagine Jerry wants a high flying offense and has instructed Moore to make one. What is odd is that Jerry seemed to let Garrett build a run heavy offense featuring a big O line.

 

[nightrain]

One thing is certain. The Cowboys need to be better at self scouting and eliminating their tendencies. The combo of Moore and Dak doesn't challenge the better defenses in the league. Too easy to defend.