News: Could the Dallas Cowboys draft a guard at 19?

[DanA]

If you're spending $50+m on your Oline starters, how do you pay your "skill" positions?

Ask Philly. They've managed to do it while also paying their backup QB 7.5m and putting Fletcher Cox on a 6 year 100m contract.

If we can't find someone to plug at left guard in the 3rd or 4th round and impose our will while having the best Left Tackle, Center, & Guard in the game, and a mean athletic freak at RT then our problem is not talent.

I just think that we get bang for buck at guard because we know they will play pretty much 100% of snaps. A healthy guard will play a lot more football than pretty much any other position and the success rate of guards taken in the 1st round is very high. To me that gives us a lot more bang for buck than a 1 tech or MIKE LB. I get that we've spent money elsewhere in the O-line but that doesn't mean much if the swing tackle subs in and gives up 5 sacks and the LG lacks the ability to finish his assignment.

 

[CCBoy]

If we can't find someone to plug at left guard in the 3rd or 4th round and impose our will while having the best Left Tackle, Center, & Guard in the game, and a mean athletic freak at RT then our problem is not talent.

...and as such, you are also affirming that unit projection and developing into the future is equally guaranteed without a younger upgrade?

Cooper...really?

 

[waving monkey]

My response to such a broad statement is that 3 and 4th rounders take a little longer to contribute as a general matter.
I would love getting that guy in the 3rd round and hope we can but I'm not throwing a fit if we grab Wynn or Hernandez at
19 if they have moved up our boards.

 

[RandyOh]

Ask Philly. They've managed to do it while also paying their backup QB 7.5m and putting Fletcher Cox on a 6 year 100m contract.




I just think that we get bang for buck at guard because we know they will play pretty much 100% of snaps. A healthy guard will play a lot more football than pretty much any other position and the success rate of guards taken in the 1st round is very high. To me that gives us a lot more bang for buck than a 1 tech or MIKE LB. I get that we've spent money elsewhere in the O-line but that doesn't mean much if the swing tackle subs in and gives up 5 sacks and the LG lacks the ability to finish his assignment.

Everyone on our Oline was/should have been a 1st round pick. We need a 1st round swing tackle as well? Im not against taking a OL at 19 if their is no obvious upgrade at WR, DT, LB, or S is sitting their but i don't understand those that are pounding the table for a OG at 19 no matter what. Patriots Oline consist of only one 1st round spent on a starter and thats their star left tackle. Mason taken in the 4th, Thuney in the 3rd, Fleming in the 4th, Andrews undrafted and they handled the Eagles star Dline till the last drive.

Now lets look at the Eagles. Jason Peters undrafted back in the day, Wisnieski 2nd round, Kelce 6th round, Brooks 3rd round, Vaitai 6th round, Lane 1st round. One 1st round pick invested in an Oline that handled the Patriots defense and made their backup QB look like a star. So i say again. If we Need to invest another 1st round pick into an offensive linemen in order for our line to not fall apart then its not the talent which we have a huge amount of on this team. Its the guys standing on the sideline wearing the headsets. With the 4 monsters we already have on this line, we should be able to take a OG or swing tackle in the 3rd or 4th and coach him up to take over at guard or fill in at tackle. If we can't do that while everyone else is able to then we will never be more then a one and done playoff team as long as we keep our current Head coach, OC, and DC.

 

[RandyOh]

...and as such, you are also affirming that unit projection and developing into the future is equally guaranteed without a younger upgrade?

Cooper...really?

Cooper? The 7th overall pick a few years back? Should we go for broke and trade out this years and next years draft to move into the top 5 and take Nelson cause our ability to develop O linemen went to crap after Callahan left? Guess we need to take players who are just way better then everyone else in order for us to have a functioning line.

Sure we can find a younger upgrade. It doesn't have to be a 1st round pick though. You should be able to find quality starting guards with high end starter potential on day 2 and even into the 4th round. If we are unable to do that while everyone else can then we are doomed.

 

[CCBoy]

Cooper? The 7th overall pick a few years back? Should we go for broke and trade out this years and next years draft to move into the top 5 and take Nelson cause our ability to develop O linemen went to crap after Callahan left? Guess we need to take players who are just way better then everyone else in order for us to have a functioning line.

Sure we can find a younger upgrade. It doesn't have to be a 1st round pick though. You should be able to find quality starting guards with high end starter potential on day 2 and even into the 4th round. If we are unable to do that while everyone else can then we are doomed.

C'mon...there about four to five OG's and about three OT's that would be available at 19 and also with a trade down.

And by the way, where's the comment about developing the strongest and cap friendly picture for the offense in projecting over the next three seasons. This has to be the very element that carries the Cowboys to the 'promised land.'

 

[RandyOh]

C'mon...there about four to five OG's and about three OT's that would be available at 19 and also with a trade down.

And by the way, where's the comment about developing the strongest and cap friendly picture for the offense in projecting over the next three seasons. This has to be the very element that carries the Cowboys to the 'promised land.'

Just took a quick look and their are about 14 teams ahead of us that have O Line as a top need or top 3 need going into the offseason. If Nelson is the only Olineman off the board by our pick then their is a big big reason for that but thats not going to happen. Just in the top 10. Giants, Colts, Broncos, and 49ers desperatly need help on the Oline. Then looking outside of the top 10. Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, and Seahawks also have Oline as a major need. Very Possible those 3 OTs and 2 or 3 of those OGs that you plan on being their are gone.

Wanna trade back just to justify taking a guard in the 1st? Lions, Rams, Panthers, Falcons, Jags, and Vikings (especially the Vikings) have big holes on their Oline and will not hesitate to take one.

If our 1st round draft board is completely dried up then ok draft the guard but if Derwin James, Vita Vea, or Ro Smith fall to us or at the very least fall into trade up territory (16th 17th pick) then i pray Stephen Jones is on the phones doing his best to trade up and get them. Guard is not our top need. WR,S,DT, & TE are much bigger issues at this point. a solid starter can be found on day 2 and even early into the 4th round. we have the extra assets to move up and snatch a good player two or possibly 3 times this year. I would rather move up on day 2 to snag a solid starting Guard then reach for one at 19 just to make sure we get one.

 

[DanA]

Everyone on our Oline was/should have been a 1st round pick. We need a 1st round swing tackle as well? Im not against taking a OL at 19 if their is no obvious upgrade at WR, DT, LB, or S is sitting their but i don't understand those that are pounding the table for a OG at 19 no matter what. Patriots Oline consist of only one 1st round spent on a starter and thats their star left tackle. Mason taken in the 4th, Thuney in the 3rd, Fleming in the 4th, Andrews undrafted and they handled the Eagles star Dline till the last drive.

Now lets look at the Eagles. Jason Peters undrafted back in the day, Wisnieski 2nd round, Kelce 6th round, Brooks 3rd round, Vaitai 6th round, Lane 1st round. One 1st round pick invested in an Oline that handled the Patriots defense and made their backup QB look like a star. So i say again. If we Need to invest another 1st round pick into an offensive linemen in order for our line to not fall apart then its not the talent which we have a huge amount of on this team. Its the guys standing on the sideline wearing the headsets. With the 4 monsters we already have on this line, we should be able to take a OG or swing tackle in the 3rd or 4th and coach him up to take over at guard or fill in at tackle. If we can't do that while everyone else is able to then we will never be more then a one and done playoff team as long as we keep our current Head coach, OC, and DC.

This is just a delusional rewrite of history and misleading to the extreme.

The Eagles didn't pick Peters up as a UDFA, they traded a 1st, 4th and 6th for him and paid him 60m. And Lane Johnson wasn't just a 1st, he was the 4th overall pick in the draft. Brooks may have been a 3rd but Eagles didn't draft him either, they went out a paid him 5-year 40m contract which is more than we're paying Lael Collins. Kelce was a find but that was a decade ago, he's now one of the highest paid centers and Wiesceki.....another free agent although admittedly cheaper but still much more expensive than Cooper.

That's not to mention the flop 1st round guard they drafted from the CFL. The truth is the Eagles have thrown a tonne of resources at the O-line and it's allowed a pretty average QB to win a superbowl. And while the Patriots have done things very different they have Tom Brady which kind of makes them a bad test case for us....we don't have a Tom Brady.

 

[CCBoy]

This is just a delusional rewrite of history and misleading to the extreme.

The Eagles didn't pick Peters up as a UDFA, they traded a 1st, 4th and 6th for him and paid him 60m. And Lane Johnson wasn't just a 1st, he was the 4th overall pick in the draft. Brooks may have been a 3rd but Eagles didn't draft him either, they went out a paid him 5-year 40m contract which is more than we're paying Lael Collins. Kelce was a find but that was a decade ago, he's now one of the highest paid centers and Wiesceki.....another free agent although admittedly cheaper but still much more expensive than Cooper.

That's not to mention the flop 1st round guard they drafted from the CFL. The truth is the Eagles have thrown a tonne of resources at the O-line and it's allowed a pretty average QB to win a superbowl. And while the Patriots have done things very different they have Tom Brady which kind of makes them a bad test case for us....we don't have a Tom Brady.

And I seriously doubt that this draft targets seven or more offensive linemen in the first round...period.

 

[CCBoy]

The offensive line in Big D is still a powerhouse. But, they need help. Dare draft help? Yes. Please. Let’s add some depth, so that when injuries happen, the offensive machinery can still run when guys have to call in sick.
https://thelandryhat.com/2018/02/06/dallas-cowboys-16-final-thoughts-2017/3/



With Dez working on route running and Dak working on accuracy, really think anything but a totally dominant running game approaches Philadelphia in 2018?

 

[DanA]

And I seriously doubt that this draft targets seven or more offensive linemen in the first round...period.

We're talking about the 2nd best Guard and 18th best player in Dane Bruglers top 50 which falls pretty close to our pick at 19. All these OT's that are being mocked in the 1st are irrelevant to us, I don't really think we're considering an OT. And all these teams are likely going to reach for an OT because they've got no chance of getting a decent one after the 1st.

And a Guard is a pretty much a guaranteed starter at Dallas. There's literally no competition at the moment. Compare that to A LB where he may be 3rd or 4th choice behind Hitchens, Smith and Lee. A DT likely rotates with M.Collins and Irving and if it's a 1 T may only be a 2 down linemen. While you just know rightly or wrongly that a TE is gonna sit on the bench behind Witten for the year regardless of how good he is. That pretty much leaves safety and WR who will see significant snap numbers if we got them in the 1st and there's only three guys in the draft in those positions worth a 1st.

Guard is a lot more palatable than most positions IMO. To me safety and WR are gonna be wiped out and it's down to DT or OG.

 

[CCBoy]

We're talking about the 2nd best Guard and 18th best player in Dane Bruglers top 50 which falls pretty close to our pick at 19. All these OT's that are being mocked in the 1st are irrelevant to us, I don't really think we're considering an OT. And all these teams are likely going to reach for an OT because they've got no chance of getting a decent one after the 1st.

And a Guard is a pretty much a guaranteed starter at Dallas. There's literally no competition at the moment. Compare that to A LB where he may be 3rd or 4th choice behind Hitchens, Smith and Lee. A DT likely rotates with M.Collins and Irving and if it's a 1 T may only be a 2 down linemen. While you just know rightly or wrongly that a TE is gonna sit on the bench behind Witten for the year regardless of how good he is. That pretty much leaves safety and WR who will see significant snap numbers if we got them in the 1st and there's only three guys in the draft in those positions worth a 1st.

Guard is a lot more palatable that most positions IMO. To me safety and WR are gonna be wiped out and it's down to DT or OG.

That could be the route, depending on how anxious teams are for the quarterbacks...

 

[DanA]

That could be the route, depending on how anxious teams are for the quarterbacks...

I think we're gonna see 4 go before we pick (Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield) and I think desperate teams may consider Lamar Jackson or Rudolph in the late teens early twenties which might play in our favor.

 

[CCBoy]

I think we're gonna see 4 go before we pick (Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield) and I think desperate teams may consider Lamar Jackson or Rudolph in the late teens early twenties which might play in our favor.

You have some good views...stick around the draft site some.

Nice meeting you.

 

[GroundZero1970]

I think we need to go wr te or g in 1

 

[DanA]

I think we need to go wr te or g in 1

The only 1st round WR I see is Ridley and I think he goes top 10 but would be delighted to get him at. The only TE close to being worth a 1st is Goedert and I think he's a mid 2nd round prospect.

I think it's out of:
Calvin Ridley WR
Isaiah Wynn OG
Vita Vea DT
Maurice Hurst DT
Isaiah Oliver CB
Rashaan Evans LB
Derwin James S

My preference is
1. Ridley
2. James
3. Wynn
4. Vea
5. Hurst
6. Oliver
7. Evans

 

[DanA]

You have some good views...stick around the draft site some.

Nice meeting you.

Thanks, appreciate the kinds words

 

[diefree666]

We have to have a competent swing tackle that is very clear. Now unless the staff is completely delusional and incompetent that cannot mean relying on Green or Bell.

There are some decent FA Tackles but how much will they cost? And bringing in a rookie to do it means basically a first rd pick

the X factor in all this is the real physical condition of Tyron. Just how bad is his back? I think that is the single most critical evaluation the boys will make this offseason

 

[Pants]

I wouldn't mind OLine with the first pick as long as there is a plan other than "run Zeke"....in other words (not in any particular order):

1) fix the WR position; minimally churn the roster spots of Beasley, Butler and Williams and if Dez says "no" to a pay cut, then all 4 go; dallas has shown that they will jettison an entire position group in favor of the long-term (see: DBacks last year); of course, this plan means that you actually go and get legit guys in FA (Landry, Watkins, Robinson, etc.) and in the draft after the first pick; Kirk growing on me as well as a few others
2) get stronger on defense whether that be via FA or the draft...because of this point, I don't see us taking OLine with the first pick, I would hope for a R.Smith (lb) at #19 or someone like Vea to clog up the middle; but again, if there is a plan, then I get it....but, taking OLine in round one almost pidgeon-holes them into defense in rd 2 (not necessarily a bad thing)
3) determine what to do with TE position; in other words, witten will be here, let's just see less than 95% of him on offensive snaps...time to get new blood in there

Dallas, despite being 9-7 has too many holes to plug but leaving the WR position with the same people will cause this team to falter once again with the lack of scheme and the lack of talent to get open; that means the defense has to be THAT much better as they will be on the field more

 

[cnuball21]

The only 1st round WR I see is Ridley and I think he goes top 10 but would be delighted to get him at. The only TE close to being worth a 1st is Goedert and I think he's a mid 2nd round prospect.

I think it's out of:
Calvin Ridley WR
Isaiah Wynn OG
Vita Vea DT
Maurice Hurst DT
Isaiah Oliver CB
Rashaan Evans LB
Derwin James S

My preference is
1. Ridley
2. James
3. Wynn
4. Vea
5. Hurst
6. Oliver
7. Evans

With Minkah and Ward likely off the board as the top 2 CB's - how are you ranking the guys after that?

IMO Hughes is the best of the rest and is going to fly up the boards leading up to the draft.

I like Jackson but hearing question marks on his athleticism, and he might be limited to a zone heavy team.