Cowboys 3 O-linemen in the top 10

[Jstopper]

I remember I was one of those people who hated the pick. I was livid about it.

Funny how fans think they know more than the scouts who do it for a living isn't it?

Absolutely. It has taught me not to make assumptions when the cowboys pick a guy who I was not high on. I'd rather watch the guy develop and play and see what happens

 

[Idgit]

The Lawrence one could be sticky on a couple of fronts - he did have back surgery (and there's no guarantees about how that holds up long terms as a DL) and he is deep into the substance abuse program as he will be serving a suspension.

Yep. He's young, good, with an injury and suspension history. He'd get a big deal on the open market, and must know it. But losing him creates a big hole to fill. Once the OLs are done, he's going to be tricky.

 

[dogunwo]

https://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/news/2016/madden-17-best-offensive-lineman

Cowboys have 3 offensive linemen in the top 10.
Cowboys look like geniuses with the Travis Frederick pick. He is the top rated center.

EA plays with ratings based on perceptions of the player. Not saying that T-Fred isn't the best center in the league, but players overall ratings are determined in their attribute ratings. At times this inflates overall ratings for players like WRs and DBs. For example, you might have a corner like Jacque Reeves who has elite speed, but his madden speed attribute might be in the 80's so that his overall rating doesn't make him a top corner, since speed is a big determination in the DB overall rating.

So.....I guess that I am saying that the guys over at EA think that Travis is the best center in the league, so they adjusted his specific attributes to reflect that in his overall rating.

 

[phildadon86]

I'll give them an excuse..

Predictable playcalling with coaches that give them no edge throughout the game or try to take advantage of all of the rules.

Dallas loooooves to make things more difficult than they need to be.

Dez Bryant is probably the best YAC receiver in the NFL and we can't get him the ball unless it's 25 yards downfield.

I dont understand why we dont see more slants but hey, Garrett's gameplan.

 

[BigStar]

I remember I caught so much flak for defending the Frederick pick. Everybody was listening to kiper saying he would be available in the 3rd. Those same people are quiet as mice now

I was one of them and will admit it. Wanted Reid FS & thought we were undercompensated. We obv weren't w/ the #1 center in the league and a mid range 2nd WR in the 3rd gained in the trade down. Will eat that crow anyday. That's why I think they respect McClay so much (for that find) and why I'll give him leeway on the post 1st rd picks though they haven't been great during his tenure.

Resigning 2 of them (Fred, Martin) shouldn't be a problem considering the cap is mandated to increase every year and our future QB will be on a rookie contract. Collins is the one I hate to think we may lose as he is up for a new contract soon too due to signing the smaller UDFA contract, status, etc. Maybe could tag him a year? (not sure of that aspect) Or tag Martin (unless he's willing to go for a hometown discount) and see if Collins will go for a short/high SB contract? I think the investment would be worth it considering the increase in the cap.

Carr will likely be coming off the books soon, as well as Church, etc. Giving us the ammo for secondary/DL help or resigning Lawrence.

 

[BigStar]

Yeah you don't see it because he doesn't get the ball in those situations but he is one of the toughest guys in the NFL to bring down when he has the ball.

He was a killer as a return man and because he kept getting hurt we had to take him off those duties.

Motion would help JG...similar to our O previously when we had TO... We know that won't happen but stranger things have happened.

 

[Daillest88]

La El is going to be in the top 10 this year. I cant wait

 

[dogunwo]

I'll give them an excuse..

Predictable playcalling with coaches that give them no edge throughout the game or try to take advantage of all of the rules.

Dallas loooooves to make things more difficult than they need to be.
new England abuses offensive pass interference rules all the time with their illegal crossing routes. they figure the 2 or three times it MIGHT get called is worth the 20-25 times that it doesn't.
Dez Bryant is probably the best YAC receiver in the NFL and we can't get him the ball unless it's 25 yards downfield.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Well, that's a little different. The value of having the top pass rusher is greater than the value of having the top guard.

If I thought paying Martin would prevent us from paying an equal talent at defensive end, then I wouldn't pay Martin. I don't think that is a choice that is necessary to make, though, because I can't see paying the linemen interfering with anything we want to do elsewhere because of the long-term nature of those deals.

Yah, I kinda jumped the subject on that one. With Denver having a bad Oline and the DE holding out and refusing to play I thought it might work offering them Martin and something else for the DE. Just a thought. But there is no doubt that paying all 4 of those guys big money will prevent us from keeping or signing other players. That might be on defense.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I would like Miller but I would be hesitant with that contract, that's the kind that can cripple a franchise. Not to mention he was suspended a few years ago for smoking that Mary Jane and trying to tamper with a drug test. Not sure if he is still in the program or not.

All very valid points. The guy is probably top 1-3 pass rushers in the NFL no problem though. If we could work out the contract, I think I would bite. Move Leary into the starting lineup and we would still probably have a top 3 line in football.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah you don't see it because he doesn't get the ball in those situations but he is one of the toughest guys in the NFL to bring down when he has the ball.

He was a killer as a return man and because he kept getting hurt we had to take him off those duties.

I just dont see Dez as either cat quick or fast. I dont see him blow people away for long TD's after he catches it like Brown on Pitt or some others. I dont even think he runs great routes. He just out muscles guys and out jumps them for the ball. But I also dont think the coaching staff utilizes him properly or moves him around well enough. Not enough crossing routes or WR screens in my opinion.

 

[CATCH17]

Motion would help JG...similar to our O previously when we had TO... We know that won't happen but stranger things have happened.

The only sign that things may be different is how upset Jerry and Jason were that we had no success at all with Weeden, Cassell, or Moore behind center.

I think they know now what they got coaching this team and it's one of the worst offensively coached staffs in the NFL.

 

[gimmesix]

Yah, I kinda jumped the subject on that one. With Denver having a bad Oline and the DE holding out and refusing to play I thought it might work offering them Martin and something else for the DE. Just a thought. But there is no doubt that paying all 4 of those guys big money will prevent us from keeping or signing other players. That might be on defense.

I would definitely be exploring all options, but I still disagree with you that signing all four will prevent us from keeping or signing other players. Their contracts will be staggered, with will allow us to restructure each year to get what we need to sign who we need.

Now, that does push money down the road and eventually we'll have to either pay big or eat it, but even that will be staggered.

Let's use Tyron Smith as an example. Dallas restructured Smith in March, turning his $10 million base salary for this season into a $9 million bonus and $1 million base. That means his cap hit for this season is $6.8 million. The Cowboys did the same thing last year, which made his cap hit $5,039 million. His contract was originally over eight years, but now it is extended to 10, which is still reasonable for a player his age.

His restructure bonuses run through 2020 but they are much smaller than his base pay and all other guaranteed money will be off the books by then. So let's say the bottom falls out and Dallas needs to cut Smith in 2019. His dead cap hit would be $5.6 million and still save Dallas $7.2 million against the cap.

I'd say it's more likely, though, that instead of cutting him Dallas will continue to restructure so that his actual hit is similar to what it is this year. Now, $6 million is nothing to sneeze at and four guys making that much does mean $24 million in cap will be taken up, but considering that the cap is $155,270,000 this year and will only go up, there's plenty of space to sign other starts. Eventually you end up with dead money, but the key is to balance out that dead money with other contracts by having restructures you can rotate using.

Unless you can replace star players every four years to keep them from a second contract, that's the way of managing the cap without crippling your ability to bring in other players you need.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I would definitely be exploring all options, but I still disagree with you that signing all four will prevent us from keeping or signing other players. Their contracts will be staggered, with will allow us to restructure each year to get what we need to sign who we need.

Now, that does push money down the road and eventually we'll have to either pay big or eat it, but even that will be staggered.

Let's use Tyron Smith as an example. Dallas restructured Smith in March, turning his $10 million base salary for this season into a $9 million bonus and $1 million base. That means his cap hit for this season is $6.8 million. The Cowboys did the same thing last year, which made his cap hit $5,039 million. His contract was originally over eight years, but now it is extended to 10, which is still reasonable for a player his age.

His restructure bonuses run through 2020 but they are much smaller than his base pay and all other guaranteed money will be off the books by then. So let's say the bottom falls out and Dallas needs to cut Smith in 2019. His dead cap hit would be $5.6 million and still save Dallas $7.2 million against the cap.

I'd say it's more likely, though, that instead of cutting him Dallas will continue to restructure so that his actual hit is similar to what it is this year. Now, $6 million is nothing to sneeze at and four guys making that much does mean $24 million in cap will be taken up, but considering that the cap is $155,270,000 this year and will only go up, there's plenty of space to sign other starts. Eventually you end up with dead money, but the key is to balance out that dead money with other contracts by having restructures you can rotate using.

Unless you can replace star players every four years to keep them from a second contract, that's the way of managing the cap without crippling your ability to bring in other players you need.

All 4 guys at one time for at least a number of years will have high salaries. Any way you slice it, that is a lot of money for the Oline. You can stagger only so much and punt into the future so much. But yah, there are games they can play.

 

[gimmesix]

All 4 guys at one time for at least a number of years will have high salaries. Any way you slice it, that is a lot of money for the Oline. You can stagger only so much and punt into the future so much. But yah, there are games they can play.

Oh, I agree that it's not going to be cheap. I just don't think it's going to handcuff us because of the games you can play with the cap. When we'll get hurt the worst by the deals is when the players choose to retire. Romo's deal, for instance, would crush us if he had to retire this because it increases his cap hit from $21 million to $31 million. After that it's less costly than keeping him, but we'd still be hit with $19 million in dead money next year. If we can make it to 2019 before he's washed up, then we can cut him for $3.2 million.

That's the chance you take both with long-term deals and restructures.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Oh, I agree that it's not going to be cheap. I just don't think it's going to handcuff us because of the games you can play with the cap. When we'll get hurt the worst by the deals is when the players choose to retire. Romo's deal, for instance, would crush us if he had to retire this because it increases his cap hit from $21 million to $31 million. After that it's less costly than keeping him, but we'd still be hit with $19 million in dead money next year. If we can make it to 2019 before he's washed up, then we can cut him for $3.2 million.

That's the chance you take both with long-term deals and restructures.

Demarcus Ware is a prime example. Im not saying you, but some have mentioned on here that the cap is nothing but a myth. Well then we could have kept Ware no problem if that was the case. It sure would have been nice to have his pass rush the last couple of years or at least mentoring the young guys. In 2014 he could have been the difference in getting to Rogers in the 2nd half. He has done quite nicely in Denver the last two years.