Cowboys Break 2/10

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's not coach speak because no one said it.



They are free to quit playing football if they want, I'm fully supportive of that. NFL players are employees, and based on workplace law (Including the NFL's own rules on such things), you can't discriminate based on any number of things, including sexual preference. So if it's your religious belief that you can't work with a gay person, the burden is on you to remove yourself from the situation and find a different job.

The discussion about Sam as a football player is based on what he did on the field. On a team that's starved on the defensive front, just about every DL player will be talked about. Sam was talked about before he came out, whether you heard it or not.

Win that case. It would be next to impossible IMO. I get what you are saying and I actually agree in large part but you just can't force these guys to do anything IMO. Too much is subjective and if you make them accept it, then you compromise the teams ability to decide on talent etc. It's a can of worms that nobody wants to kick over IMO.

Some day, but I don't think that day is today.

 

[Denim Chicken]

So if the safeties in the draft aren't better then Wilcox, and UDFA Heath was played over Wilcox, does that mean that Heath is just as good as the safeties in the draft?

 

[TrailBlazer]

Of course Pryor or haha Clinton Dix won't be much better than Wilcox or Heath their rookie seasons. But there ceilings are much higher. Pryor and dix are the top safeties and first round talents. We shouldn't pass up on that just bc we have Wilcox. JJ is an in thw box SS type. We need that center fielder FS ball hawking type that we've been missing for years. Oh well, plug one hole at a time. Start with dline.

 

[TheCount]

I never saw his name mentioned on any of our draft forums... I might have missed it but it's certainly not predominant. As far as my own personal beliefs they don't really matter but I would postulate that he has the same burden as if it was a male-female situation where unwanted attention needs to be kept in check. He didn't seem disrespectful in any way so hopefully it won't be an issue.

His name has been mentioned but you're right that he wasn't on the "hot list". Mostly because he's a mid round guy, as people don't really know much about those guys till closer to the draft. At least after the combine, people can sort lists by 40 time, bench press, etc. and find some pet cats.

 

[TheCount]

Win that case. It would be next to impossible IMO. I get what you are saying and I actually agree in large part but you just can't force these guys to do anything IMO. Too much is subjective and if you make them accept it, then you compromise the teams ability to decide on talent etc. It's a can of worms that nobody wants to kick over IMO.

Some day, but I don't think that day is today.

I'm not really sure what the can of worms is that you're referring to, honestly, so I don't want to go on some rant without being clear.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dictating to teams who should and should not make teams.

This is the problem and this is why you really can't effect this issue in the NFL. Any team or coaching staff has great latitude in which players make teams and which players get cut. There are no criteria that governs this. This goes back to the "Win that case" comment.

You really can't force NFL teams to accept anything. They have to come around to it on their own. I think that eventually, that will happen, but I don't think it will happen in the near future. I think that's going to take a few more years yet.

 

[TheCount]

Dictating to teams who should and should not make teams.

This is the problem and this is why you really can't effect this issue in the NFL. Any team or coaching staff has great latitude in which players make teams and which players get cut. There are no criteria that governs this. This goes back to the "Win that case" comment.

You really can't force NFL teams to accept anything. They have to come around to it on their own. I think that eventually, that will happen, but I don't think it will happen in the near future. I think that's going to take a few more years yet.

I guess I don't see where the dictatorship comes in, or how that could even work. An owner is going to draft Sam because he's capable of rushing the passer, not because Goodell called him and dictated he be drafted.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I guess I don't see where the dictatorship comes in, or how that could even work. An owner is going to draft Sam because he's capable of rushing the passer, not because Goodell called him and dictated he be drafted.

Or they won't. If you look at his numbers, he may not be all that good of a pass rusher. I mean, yeah, he may be a guy who can help you but he may not be either. Coaches are going to evaluate him and if he is succesful, then it could be a good story for a team who takes him but he could also not make the team and get cut. What would the press say then?

There are a lot of potential issues that could play into this. Bottom line, each team will have to evaluate the situation and make decision based on those evaluations but really, what I was commenting on was this:

"I'm fully supportive of that. NFL players are employees, and based on workplace law (Including the NFL's own rules on such things), you can't discriminate based on any number of things, including sexual preference."

Technically, this might be true but in reality, it doesn't work like that in the NFL. Because they have such latitude on who makes the team and who does not, it would almost take some sort of decision on behalf of the NFL to create some sort of criteria for cutting players, in order for that statement to have any real teeth IMO. That's not going to happen IMO because it interferes too much with a teams ability to build a team and that won't fly. that's the can of worms I was referring to. If you don't have that kind of language in play, it's hard to prove why any player is or is not cut. That's the case that you can't really win IMO.

 

[TheCount]

Or they won't. If you look at his numbers, he may not be all that good of a pass rusher. I mean, yeah, he may be a guy who can help you but he may not be either. Coaches are going to evaluate him and if he is succesful, then it could be a good story for a team who takes him but he could also not make the team and get cut. What would the press say then?

There are a lot of potential issues that could play into this. Bottom line, each team will have to evaluate the situation and make decision based on those evaluations but really, what I was commenting on was this:

"I'm fully supportive of that. NFL players are employees, and based on workplace law (Including the NFL's own rules on such things), you can't discriminate based on any number of things, including sexual preference."

Technically, this might be true but in reality, it doesn't work like that in the NFL. Because they have such latitude on who makes the team and who does not, it would almost take some sort of decision on behalf of the NFL to create some sort of criteria for cutting players, in order for that statement to have any real teeth IMO. That's not going to happen IMO because it interferes too much with a teams ability to build a team and that won't fly. that's the can of worms I was referring to. If you don't have that kind of language in play, it's hard to prove why any player is or is not cut. That's the case that you can't really win IMO.

Why would this be the moment Goodell decides to start telling teams who they must draft and who they can't cut? When has he ever done that and why would this be the exception?

You also took a nice dig at the SEC defensive player of the year and his 10.5 sacks, so that's interesting. He's already rated as a mid round pick, are you suggestion that based on his play alone, he should be even lower?

 

[LatinMind]

Of course Pryor or haha Clinton Dix won't be much better than Wilcox or Heath their rookie seasons. But there ceilings are much higher. Pryor and dix are the top safeties and first round talents. We shouldn't pass up on that just bc we have Wilcox. JJ is an in thw box SS type. We need that center fielder FS ball hawking type that we've been missing for years. Oh well, plug one hole at a time. Start with dline.

That word "ceiling" has created some of the bigfest busts in nfl history. Dix and Pryor arent ballhawks either. 2 ints each? Thats a bawlhawk?

 

[TrailBlazer]

That word "ceiling" has created some of the bigfest busts in nfl history. Dix and Pryor arent ballhawks either. 2 ints each? Thats a bawlhawk?

Pryor would fit the role better than anyone we have on our roster now. We need a centerfielder that can cover sideline to sideline. Wilcox and church are better against the run than in coverage. Vaccaro played very well this year as a rookie. I know Dallas will most likely go dline in the first. But dismissing the top 2 safeties in this class bc we have JJ Wilcox and Jeff Heath is not sound logic. It's still a need, albeit not Dallas' biggest need.

 

[LatinMind]

Pryor would fit the role better than anyone we have on our roster now. We need a centerfielder that can cover sideline to sideline. Wilcox and church are better against the run than in coverage. Vaccaro played very well this year as a rookie. I know Dallas will most likely go dline in the first. But dismissing the top 2 safeties in this class bc we have JJ Wilcox and Jeff Heath is not sound logic. It's still a need, albeit not Dallas' biggest need.

How do you know what Wilcox is? Cowboys dont even know what they have in Wilcox. Dix and Pryor are not Vaccarro. I still think Dallas if they want to go safety get a vet. Manning would be a perfect fit. Played in this def for marinelli, would be a cheap vet and be the stop gap to wilcox.

 

[Redball Express]

What anonymous GM? There was no quote from a GM in the post Dash was referring to.

the ones ESPN is sourciing on their newscast.

 

[TheCount]

the ones ESPN is sourciing on their newscast.

Those weren't referenced by Dash.

He said:

Dallas management doesn't want to get after the QB?

Why wouldn't he fit into what they want? Whatever that may be.

to which you replied:

its curious.

this is red flag coach speak.

I think most coaches would want to avoid the distraction.

As I've already pointed out, they didn't say anything about Cowboys management making a statement about Sam, which is what the OP alluded to. My point was that no Cowboy GM has said Sam doesn't fit what they want to do, so it can't be a red flag statement.

If you were referring to ESPN - none of that was part of the context of the conversation on The Break or by Dash, hence the confusion. You replied to Dash but were referencing something completely different that had no context to the Cowboys.

 

[Redball Express]

Those weren't referenced by Dash.

He said:



to which you replied:



As I've already pointed out, they didn't say anything about Cowboys management making a statement about Sam, which is what the OP alluded to. My point was that no Cowboy GM has said Sam doesn't fit what they want to do, so it can't be a red flag statement.

If you were referring to ESPN - none of that was part of the context of the conversation on The Break or by Dash, hence the confusion. You replied to Dash but were referencing something completely different that had no context to the Cowboys.

Sorry..

I've got a new tablet and its being querky.

I see what you said..

Yes I was referring to what was being said elsewhere from other anonomous sources.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Free agent safeties this year. Anyone see an attainable FS who might be a good fit?

1. Jairus Byrd
2. T.J. Ward
3. Donte Whitner
4. Antoine Bethea
5. Chris Clemons
6. Malcolm Jenkins
7. Stevie Brown
8. Major Wright
9. Nate Allen
10. Michael Mitchell
11. Charles Woodson
12. Nick Collins
13. Ryan Clark
14. James Ihedigbo
15. Bernard Pollard
16. Usama Young
17. Kendrick Lewis
18. Mike Adams
19. Chris Crocker
20. Yeremiah Bell
21. Quintin Mikell
22. Michael Huff
23. Brandon Meriweather
24. Ryan Mundy
25. Taylor Mays
26. Ed Reed
27. Jim Leonhard
28. Husain Abdullah
29. Darrell Stuckey
30. Sergio Brown
31. Colt Anderson
32. Darian Stewart
33. Craig Steltz
34. Chris Maragos
35. Will Allen
36. Quintin Demps
37. Matt Giordano
38. Reed Doughty
39. Danny McCray
40. Kurt Coleman

 

[TheCount]

Sorry..

I've got a new tablet and its being querky.

I see what you said..

Yes I was referring to what was being said elsewhere from other anonomous sources.

I wasn't trying to corner you into an apology. I just wanted to clarify what was stated on The Break because some took the original post to mean the Cowboys had made a determination to skip on a potential pass rusher when we're already hurting there.

 

[jterrell]

I think you are starting to see how everybody wants to be PC in the open. But when theres no media around people talk. As Sam's own teammate is calling out all his other teammates who are posting things on twitter about they support him this and that, all the time they were talking about him behind his back. You have people like Incognito on every team in the nfl, Sam is going to have a rough time nomatter how much assurance the nfl is trying to say its time to open up.

Sam has his degree so he obviously did the whole college thing to get that instead of just getting a ticket to the nfl. I think he will be getting in job in his degree field sooner rather then later.

I read somewhere that Sam can make up to 2 mil a yr just being a part of gay rights organizations and things like that, spokesman

No whats going to happen is some teams are going to pass him because they are stupid and bigoted.

Then some other team is going to get a great draft value for a SEC Co-Player of the year.

His teammates at Missou... they voted him the player of the year.
I'd probably make a lot of non-PC jabs at him too same as I do all my friends.
That's simply how guys are.

If Dallas drafted Sam in round 5 I'd be overjoyed. He is a great value there as a part-time DL who can apply crazy pressure and has a non-stop motor.

 

[jterrell]

From my interpretation on what they were saying about Sam, they said you don't worry about PR when drafting and that the announcement didn't help him but may drop him.

The OLB stuff had nothing to do with the Cowboys, they were just pointing out that he won't be attractive to 3-4 teams because he looked bad at that spot, so he is a 4-3 DE exclusively.

They then said that he is a bit of a project (they didn't explain why that is) and classified him as a 3rd down pass rush specialist, not every down. They didn't bother qualifying why they think that about him, but all they said is you don't take a 3rd down only guy early.

They didn't say anything about not drafting the guy or being concerned about the media, they basically have him classified where he has been all along - mid round.

I didn't hear them say a thing about the cowboys not looking at him or not fitting what they do, I don't know where you got that...

It's also worth noting they talked about him for maybe 2 or 3 mins tops. It wasn't an in depth discussion.

Sam's timing was about as unselfish as it could possibly be.
He could have waited til after the draft where he minimized any effect.
He could have done it last year in the middle of a great season and been the story instead of Missou's resurgence.
He did it now while he is representing only his self.

Kudos to the kid.

 

[LatinMind]

No whats going to happen is some teams are going to pass him because they are stupid and bigoted.

Then some other team is going to get a great draft value for a SEC Co-Player of the year.

His teammates at Missou... they voted him the player of the year.
I'd probably make a lot of non-PC jabs at him too same as I do all my friends.
That's simply how guys are.

If Dallas drafted Sam in round 5 I'd be overjoyed. He is a great value there as a part-time DL who can apply crazy pressure and has a non-stop motor.

Like Damontre Moore? and his 11 tackles