Cowboys defense - Not all bad

[Sarge]

We've been in games because of our offense. PERIOD.

 

[xwalker]

We've been in games because of our offense. PERIOD.

There is no prize for the offense being better than the defense.

The Cowboys defense gave up less points than the Packer's defense (28 vs 31). That should result in a win.

 

[Sarge]

There is no prize for the offense being better than the defense.

The Cowboys defense gave up less points than the Packer's defense (28 vs 31). That should result in a win.

Who said anything about a prize for the offense being better than the defense?

You logic is twisted. Our defense is bad.

 

[xwalker]

Who said anything about a prize for the offense being better than the defense?

You logic is twisted. Our defense is bad.

They could have won the Packers game without TWill's blunder or Garrett's clock blunder.

That means the defense provided some value regardless of how "bad" they were.

"We've been in games because of our offense. PERIOD."

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

What was the time of possession in the 3rd quarter? Didn't seem like our offense had the ball hardly at all.

 

[nalam]

The defense has been good enough to give them a chance to win all but the Broncos game. Even the Broncos game was largely determined by the Cowboys offense not being able to run the ball and keep the Broncos offense off the field and 2 INTs on the Cowboys offense doomed any chance for the defense.

Packers game
Cowboys defense gave up less points than the Packers defense (28 vs 31). Thanks TWill for giving the Packers the other 7 points.
Held Rodgers to 19 completions for 221 yards.

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With game on line , 1+ min , they couldnt keep everything infront and hold for a FG , so dont tell me D is good, this pi$$ poor D philosophy , bend , bend and break at most inopprtune moment is not going to do any favors. At least it was holding a bit better when Run game was handled last year , this year with absense of DT play , we are getting sliced in the run game , with some good and some ok running backs , we have no way to control , i think opponents dont punt against the cowboys in the second half .

 

[xwalker]

With game on line , 1+ min , they couldnt keep everything infront and hold for a FG , so dont tell me D is good, this pi$$ poor D philosophy , bend , bend and break at most inopprtune moment is not going to do any favors. At least it was holding a bit better when Run game was handled last year , this year with absense of DT play , we are getting sliced in the run game , with some good and some ok running backs , we have no way to control , i think opponents dont punt against the cowboys in the second half .

It appears many people have reading comprehension problems.

I didn't say the defense is good.

The Packers punted more than the Cowboys.

 

[HungryLion]

They could have won the Packers game without TWill's blunder or Garrett's clock blunder.

That means the defense provided some value regardless of how "bad" they were.

"We've been in games because of our offense. PERIOD."

Twill’s blunder? Probably.

Garrett’s clock blunder? Hardly. Packers still would have had time for a field goal. Easily. Rodgers got them into field goal range in an instant because our defense is less effective than a speed bump at slowing down offenses.

 

[xwalker]

Twill’s blunder? Probably.

Garrett’s clock blunder? Hardly. Packers still would have had time for a field goal. Easily. Rodgers got them into field goal range in an instant because our defense is less effective than a speed bump at slowing down offenses.

A Field Goal would have tied the game, IIRC.

 

[TheHerd]

A Field Goal would have tied the game, IIRC.

So we could lose in OT. The D would not have stopped Rodgers. Even if we win the toss, Red plays for the FG by going ultra conservative once we're in range. Gotta get the points in th NFL, right?

 

[percyhoward]

The Packers scored on a pick-6, which robbed them of a possession, so Dallas had 9 possessions to the Packers' 7.

So they were held to 28 points mostly because of the unusually low number of possessions, but then they also missed their first extra point attempt, meaning they were chasing that point the rest of the game. If they make that first extra point (which has nothing to do with our defense), they almost certainly end up scoring 31 points, on just 7 possessions.

In a typical 11-possession game, that's 49 points.

 

[xwalker]

So we could lose in OT. The D would not have stopped Rodgers. Even if we win the toss, Red plays for the FG by going ultra conservative once we're in range. Gotta get the points in th NFL, right?

It was 2nd an 2 at the 11 yard line. A first down likely runs the clock out.

 

[nalam]

It appears many people have reading comprehension problems.

I didn't say the defense is good.

The Packers punted more than the Cowboys.

You read better too, i said in the 2nd half , for the last 2 games ...

 

[TheHerd]

It was 2nd an 2 at the 11 yard line. A first down likely runs the clock out.

We'd have passed 4 times. This is Garrett and Linehan you're talking about.

 

[xwalker]

We'd have passed 4 times. This is Garrett and Linehan you're talking about.

Maybe, but it still proves my point that the defense did just enough if TWill or Garrett didn't make blunders.

 

[Idgit]

I'm not trying to "measure" the defense.

The point is that the Cowboys won 13 games last season with a similar defense because the offense kept the defense off the field.

That is the Cowboys formula when they spent 2x cap space on offense as compared to defense.

It does not mean the current defense or last season's defense is/was good. It just means winning is still possible. No TWill blunder or coaching blunder on the clock in the Packers game and they highly likely win.

If they win games, I don't care if the defense is rated. 40th out of 32 teams or rated as the worst in history or any other "measure" or rating.

The bright side is that this defense will likely get better. If the team was within 1 score on 2 losses and the defense improves just a little, then they should have a good chance to win some games.

If they had been blown out by 20+ points in every game, then I would say winning more games is unlikely.

You're measuring it as soon as you say it's 'similar' to last year.

Unfortunately, the two defenses aren't actually similar. We're giving up points at a much higher rate relative to the rest of the league than we used to.

The challenge comes in in that you can't win games at a high enough rate giving up points and not taking the ball away the way we do. If we could win, despite that, we'd be winning now the way our offense is playing.

I do agree we've got potential to get quite a bit better.

 

[xwalker]

You're measuring it as soon as you say it's 'similar' to last year.

Unfortunately, the two defenses aren't actually similar. We're giving up points at a much higher rate relative to the rest of the league than we used to.

The challenge comes in in that you can't win games at a high enough rate giving up points and not taking the ball away the way we do. If we could win, despite that, we'd be winning now the way our offense is playing.

I do agree we've got potential to get quite a bit better.

DE is better now.

1-tech is worse but McClain faded.

CBs might be better.

Heath is not as good as Church against the run but about the same in pass defense.

MLB has been much worse.

It basically comes down to Lee and Hitchens being out as the biggest difference from last season.

Having said that, the biggest difference has been that the offense dominated time of possession last year and are not doing it this year.

 

[TheHerd]

Maybe, but it still proves my point that the defense did just enough if TWill or Garrett didn't make blunders.

Yes, since that is your premise, it's hard to disagree. How I word it is that the D plays well enough that if the offense makes no mistakes we can win.

Maybe that's essentially the same argument. But the defense is horrible.

 

[HungryLion]

Dude the defense is garbage.

The defense was garbage last year too. They sucked last year if you actually paid attention to their play. The only reason they were low in points allowed is because our offense give them early leads to work with, and controlled time of possession. The defense last year gave up a ton of yards per play, had an inconsistent pass rush and didn’t force many turnovers.

They are even worse this year, because this year they can’t stop the run either. Giving up over 160+ yards rushing in our 3 losses. 160 yards. You can’t expect to win games when giving up 30+ points and over 160 yards on the ground. Actually, the fact that we were even in 2 of those games of over 30 points allowed and 160 yards rushing allowed, is testament to how dominant our offense can be at times.

Our offense has to dominate in order for us to win games. Our defense doesn’t force turnovers nearly enough and flat out never scores. They are putrid. I feel like us cowboys fans are so used to outright terrible defensive play, that we have lost perspective about what an actual good defense looks like.

 

[TheHerd]

Dude the defense is garbage.

The defense was garbage last year too. They sucked last year if you actually paid attention to their play. The only reason they were low in points allowed is because our offense give them early leads to work with, and controlled time of possession. The defense last year gave up a ton of yards per play, had an inconsistent pass rush and didn’t force many turnovers.

They are even worse this year, because this year they can’t stop the run either. Giving up over 160+ yards rushing in our 3 losses. 160 yards. You can’t expect to win games when giving up 30+ points and over 160 yards on the ground. Actually, the fact that we were even in 2 of those games of over 30 points allowed and 160 yards rushing allowed, is testament to how dominant our offense can be at times.

Our offense has to dominate in order for us to win games. Our defense doesn’t force turnovers nearly enough and flat out never scores. They are putrid. I feel like us cowboys fans are so used to outright terrible defensive play, that we have lost perspective about what an actual good defense looks like.

I think big difference is red zone.