Cowboys defensive value

[jnday]

Marinelli has repeatedly said that he doesn't value the 1tech enough to spend s high draft pick. I don't think a first or second should be used on the position, but they need to draft an upgrade over Hayden or stopping the run up the middle will continue to be a problem. Hayden consistently rates as one of the worst at his position, but he remains a starter. It appears that Marinelli is just stubborn about the position , but I think an upgrade would improve the defense. I agree that the DB positions need some upgrades as well. Mo has been a bust and Carr is an overpayed average CB. A true FS is needed too.

 

[big dog cowboy]

When the Seahawks were 7th in the league in defense in 2011 (ppg), they were starting two rookies in the secondary and two second year players. ]

I want to think (and maybe I'm leading myself here) that the Cowboys are about to invest a lot of draft resources into that secondary over the next year or so.

I said before the draft we were going there at 27 and I'm on record already as saying we do it again early next year. If Wilcox can what we all hope he can be that would save a draft pick. I believe we are looking past Mo and Carr for obvious reasons.

 

[Galian Beast]

I said before the draft we were going there at 27 and I'm on record already as saying we do it again early next year. If Wilcox can what we all hope he can be that would save a draft pick. I believe we are looking past Mo and Carr for obvious reasons.

I think Wilcox can be the future at strong safety, especially if Jones ultimately stays at free safety. I think when they talk about position flex, they like that they can go into the next draft targeting either free safety or corner, and positioning him elsewhere accordingly.

They've spent the last two years on the front seven. Morris Claiborne not working out really sets us back badly.


Ideally you could have had Claiborne, Jones, Wilcox, and another corner or safety in there somewhere.

I think they really want Claiborne to bounce back this year if he is healthy, I think they'd like to recover what they invested in him, and sign him to a pretty cheap deal.

 

[JBell]

Is that why last year Wilcox never left the field and Church did?

I think you're smart enough to realize that in the rare event that Church left a game, it wasn't performance related. He'd take himself out of the game because he was either a) winded, or b) injured like he was vs. Green Bay.

 

[jazzcat22]

They aren't a Tampa 2 defense.

I was just thinking this...this is not a true Tampa 2 defense, nor do I believe it ever was or intended to be.
They even said look more at the Seattle defense style when first implemented.

But even the mediots still refer to it as the T2 D...but then again that is why we call them mediots...LOL....

 

[jazzcat22]

Marinelli has repeatedly said that he doesn't value the 1tech enough to spend s high draft pick. I don't think a first or second should be used on the position, but they need to draft an upgrade over Hayden or stopping the run up the middle will continue to be a problem. Hayden consistently rates as one of the worst at his position, but he remains a starter. It appears that Marinelli is just stubborn about the position , but I think an upgrade would improve the defense. I agree that the DB positions need some upgrades as well. Mo has been a bust and Carr is an overpayed average CB. A true FS is needed too.

I think the eventual plan from comments from the FO and Jason. Jones will start off at corner, and depends on Mo's recovery too, but not entirely upon it. Jones can be moved to FS, and Wilcox and Church will be at SS.
Then I think next year will be fix the secondary type draft and FA.

Last year or so, it was fix the OL. This year it was fix the DL, but more specifically the DE and pass rush. Next year secondary, but also I can see a DT to upgrade there too, if one of the young guys don't step up this year to push Hayden out.

 

[CyberB0b]

Marinelli has pointed out how a lot of people think that tampa 2 is just cover 2, it isn't. They change it up, but that is still the name of their scheme.

What do you think the 2 stands for?

 

[Galian Beast]

What do you think the 2 stands for?

The Tampa 2 isn't just about cover 2. It was also about the being a 4-3 under, and the type of players the scheme ran, generally undersized players.

The Cowboys mostly play Cover 3, but they'll still use some cover 2 or man 2 depending on the situation, and they do mix it up.

The primary limitation of this defense last year was that we couldn't get any pressure with the 4 we sent. That is why they invested heavily in pass rush this off season.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I think they really want Claiborne to bounce back this year if he is healthy, I think they'd like to recover what they invested in him, and sign him to a pretty cheap deal.

That is spot on IMO.

 

[CyberB0b]

The Tampa 2 isn't just about cover 2. It was also about the being a 4-3 under, and the type of players the scheme ran, generally undersized players.

The Cowboys mostly play Cover 3, but they'll still use some cover 2 or man 2 depending on the situation, and they do mix it up.

The primary limitation of this defense last year was that we couldn't get any pressure with the 4 we sent. That is why they invested heavily in pass rush this off season.

4-3 under is a front. Tampa 2 is a coverage.

 

[Galian Beast]

4-3 under is a front. Tampa 2 is a coverage.

Wrong, Cover 2 is a coverage. Tampa 2 mirrors the Cover 2 and the 4-3 under, and over time has adopted more coverages.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think you're smart enough to realize that in the rare event that Church left a game, it wasn't performance related. He'd take himself out of the game because he was either a) winded, or b) injured like he was vs. Green Bay.

I think you like making up stories. The reason he left the field is because they didn't trust him to play deep middle when Wilcox manned up TE.

 

[JBell]

I think you like making up stories. The reason he left the field is because they didn't trust him to play deep middle when Wilcox manned up TE.

I can recall in a couple of games where after a long pursuit play, Church would make a hand gesture such as "Come get me, I need a breather", or simply just run to the sidelines where he'd look absolutely exhausted.

Church would've played a lot less if what you're saying were true lol. If you can link me to something that proves that they trusted Jeff freakin Heath in the deep middle over Church while Wilcox manned up the TE, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can recall in a couple of games where after a long pursuit play, Church would make a hand gesture such as "Come get me, I need a breather", or simply just run to the sidelines where he'd look absolutely exhausted.

Church would've played a lot less if what you're saying were true lol. If you can link me to something that proves that they trusted Jeff freakin Heath in the deep middle over Church while Wilcox manned up the TE, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.

I don't recall that and I watched every game at least twice. I cannot link you anything but the play totals which you don't disagree with.

Church didn't play FS last season and he rarely played a deep half after the first half of the season. He came out in some nickel packages. He played all the dime. Spillman and Heath played a lot more in the second half of the season as opposed to the first and I don't think you can attribute all that to him being winded.

http://www.rosterresource.com/nfl-dallas-cowboys-snap-counts/

I don't dislike Church but I do think he is limited by his range. He would be one of the top backup defensive backs in the league nonetheless and hugely valuable. I just like Wilcox's athleticism and upside a lot more.

I also think that this is all a moot discussion because Claiborne isn't going to be pushing Jones out from CB anytime soon.

 

[xwalker]

I don't recall that and I watched every game at least twice. I cannot link you anything but the play totals which you don't disagree with.

Church didn't play FS last season and he rarely played a deep half after the first half of the season. He came out in some nickel packages. He played all the dime. Spillman and Heath played a lot more in the second half of the season as opposed to the first and I don't think you can attribute all that to him being winded.

http://www.rosterresource.com/nfl-dallas-cowboys-snap-counts/

I don't dislike Church but I do think he is limited by his range. He would be one of the top backup defensive backs in the league nonetheless and hugely valuable. I just like Wilcox's athleticism and upside a lot more.

I also think that this is all a moot discussion because Claiborne isn't going to be pushing Jones out from CB anytime soon.

I don't recall that either.