Cowboys Depth by Position

[xwalker]

You forgot to add DE Jalen Jelks.

I didn't list all player at each position (I only listed the top 3 at WR) but I do tend to forget about Jelks.

I have no idea about his potential. In college he was best when he lined up as a pass rushing DT similar to the role David Irving played with the Cowboys; however, Jelks would need to bulk up significantly to play that role in the NFL.

The new defense scheme makes it hard to project these types of players. Mike Nolan has used a hybrid 4-3 / 3-4 defense in the past. He likes to use a hybrid DE/LB on 1 side. In 2014 that was primarily Kroy Biermann (6-3, 255).

 

[J12B]

You've studied the college game footage of Dinucci, Cooper Rush and Mike White?

Since I know that you have not, I can tell you that Dinucci is the only one that showed NFL potential.

Prove it

 

[xwalker]

Prove it

Prove it's not true...

 

[J12B]

Prove it's not true...

No. Upload a video of you on YouTube studying DiNuccis game and provide your analysis that way.

And send me the link.

 

[xwalker]

No. Upload a video of you on YouTube studying DiNuccis game and provide your analysis that way.

It the obligation of the person making the challenge, not the person being challenged to prove the point.

You wouldn't understand the analysis if I posted it.

 

[J12B]

It the obligation of the person making the challenge, not the person being challenged to prove the point.

You wouldn't understand the analysis if I posted it.

Prove it.

You can't just make a claim and believe that everyone will take it as truth.

 

[quickccc]

TE: MartyB was never ready to start while he was in Dallas. He didn't know the plays.

DT: The most depth they've had at 1tech with Poe/Woods. Also Hill played as a 3-4 NT in college until his final season when they changed coaching staffs.

LB: Lee and Thomas are the best 3rd and 4th LBs they had in the Marinelli era. Gifford has better potential than any 5th LB I can remember in the Marinelli era.

WR: They basically replaced Cobb (and previously Beasley) with Lamb. That's more depth at outside WR because Cobb/Beasley were not really options there. I see Pollard as possibly the backup slot WR option or he takes some of those snaps even if he does not line up in the slot. I would be good if Devin Smith or one of the other WRs steps up to claim some playing time (Most teams like to limit the starting WRs to about 90% of the snaps).

- How was Marty B. gonna really be able to develop as a receiver with Witten never coming off the field and always being the focus of the offense?
His biggest contribution as a 2nd TE was primarily an in-line blocker (which he was actually better than Witten in that area) and being so little used
and underdeveloped was the reason for his departure.
Plus all the pipe dream for having a mimic of a Pats 2 TE offense went out of the window. Which had to be the reason why we chose a 2nd TE as high
as the 2nd round. It never came close to developing under that coaching staff. Ironically we repeated same 2nd TE mistake with the drafting
of Gavin Escobar.

- If durability wasn't a concern issue, i would love the idea of Sean Lee flexing at all LB positions in a pinch .
Much like he very surprisingly did when LVE was shelved injured and IR'ed. But how much do you gamble on a 33 yr old LB with a durability concern?
Ability wise i have no problem with Thomas, who has experience, speed to offer, but he's also been often hurt since he's been here.
Otherwise we're likely to see some of what we saw last year when we were bringing unheralded LBs right off the street. (ala Malcom Smith)

- Supposedly both Hill and Gallimore have played across the line as 3 tech and 1 tech in their respective college careers.
Size wise they may not be ideal for the 1 tech in a pinch.but that's why they will have to become essential as immediate emergency plug ins
if (when?) Antuwann Woods goes thru his usual injury streak.which is why we will need someone else capable in the rotation once a rash of injuries hit.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Prove it

Actual talent evaluators had an average draft ranking for Mike White in the 4th-5th round, while Dinucci was in the PUDFA-UDFA area.

Draft grades are based off of the ability to translate to the NFL, meaning real talent evaluators saw that White showed much more NFL talent than Dinucci ever did.

 

[xwalker]

- How was Marty B. gonna really be able to develop as a receiver with Witten never coming off the field and always being the focus of the offense?
His biggest contribution as a 2nd TE was primarily an in-line blocker (which he was actually better than Witten in that area) and being so little used
and underdeveloped was the reason for his departure.
Plus all the pipe dream for having a mimic of a Pats 2 TE offense went out of the window. Which had to be the reason why we chose a 2nd TE as high
as the 2nd round. It never came close to developing under that coaching staff. Ironically we repeated same 2nd TE mistake with the drafting
of Gavin Escobar.

- If durability wasn't a concern issue, i would love the idea of Sean Lee flexing at all LB positions in a pinch .
Much like he very surprisingly did when LVE was shelved injured and IR'ed. But how much do you gamble on a 33 yr old LB with a durability concern?
Ability wise i have no problem with Thomas, who has experience, speed to offer, but he's also been often hurt since he's been here.
Otherwise we're likely to see some of what we saw last year when we were bringing unheralded LBs right off the street. (ala Malcom Smith)

- Supposedly both Hill and Gallimore have played across the line as 3 tech and 1 tech in their respective college careers.
Size wise they may not be ideal for the 1 tech in a pinch.but that's why they will have to become essential as immediate emergency plug ins
if (when?) Antuwann Woods goes thru his usual injury streak.which is why we will need someone else capable in the rotation once a rash of injuries hit.

1tech DT

• In the Marinelli era and for most 4-3 teams, they only play a true 1tech for about 1/3 of the snaps.On many obvious passing downs both DTs play as 3techs.
• In 2019 the Cowboys often used a 3-man DL (1 DT) in obvious passing situations.
• On some "probably pass but maybe run" situations teams sometimes use a 3tech type player at the 1tech position.
• They never had a legit backup 1tech during the Marinelli era. Now they have one with Woods.
  • The injury issues with Woods have been a problem but making him a backup should drastically improve his chances of staying healthy.

Gallimore
OU played a base 3-man DL which meant Gallimore saw more double-teams than the average college DT. He often aligned similar to a 1tech in a 4 man DL.
- Gallimore would likely have been drafted earlier if he had played as a pure 3tech DT in a Marinelli style 4-3 defense.

Hill
I still have some hope for Hill. He was OK physically when he did play in 2019. He just didn't know what he was doing.
- They drafted Hill to play 3tech. They had him practice/play 3tech in camp and in preseason games. In the regular season they primarily played him at 1tech...


LB
In the Mike Nolan defense those 30% of snaps previously played by the 4-3 SLB will likely go to a hybrid LB/DE type player like Anae.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Not to mention Thomas would start on the majority of teams, and we should ideally only have 2 LBs on the field for 60-70% of plays.

LBs is one of the last positions we need to trade to obtain depth.

if Thomas could start for the majority of teams then he would be. I like him as a backup but lets not get carried away here.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Actual talent evaluators had an average draft ranking for Mike White in the 4th-5th round, while Dinucci was in the PUDFA-UDFA area.

Draft grades are based off of the ability to translate to the NFL, meaning real talent evaluators saw that White showed much more NFL talent than Dinucci ever did.

Some of these guys are trying to predict where they will be drafted. A guy from a division 2 school would never be ranked high.

 

[CowboyRoy]

1tech DT

• In the Marinelli era and for most 4-3 teams, they only play a true 1tech for about 1/3 of the snaps.On many obvious passing downs both DTs play as 3techs.
• In 2019 the Cowboys often used a 3-man DL (1 DT) in obvious passing situations.
• On some "probably pass but maybe run" situations teams sometimes use a 3tech type player at the 1tech position.
• They never had a legit backup 1tech during the Marinelli era. Now they have one with Woods.
  • The injury issues with Woods have been a problem but making him a backup should drastically improve his chances of staying healthy.

Gallimore
OU played a base 3-man DL which meant Gallimore saw more double-teams than the average college DT. He often aligned similar to a 1tech in a 4 man DL.
- Gallimore would likely have been drafted earlier if he had played as a pure 3tech DT in a Marinelli style 4-3 defense.

Hill
I still have some hope for Hill. He was OK physically when he did play in 2019. He just didn't know what he was doing.
- They drafted Hill to play 3tech. They had him practice/play 3tech in camp and in preseason games. In the regular season they primarily played him at 1tech...


LB
In the Mike Nolan defense those 30% of snaps previously played by the 4-3 SLB will likely go to a hybrid LB/DE type player like Anae.

Lets forget about what you hope for with Hill. What is your evaluation of him based on what we have seen?

 

[CowboyRoy]

I notice that you ignored the images that I posted and how I showed that the numbers of snaps to be grades and the time to grade them are basically impossible.

I'm referring to weekly grades. They had Doug Free with a better grade than Tyron Smith.

I've watched every snap that both Free and Tyron have played in the NFL at least 10 times each.

In reality Tyron's worst game in his career was better than Free's best game. They are not remotely comparable.

The fact that they go back and change grades is comical.

It was a great concept to have a number for every players performance; however, PFF's execution of obtaining the grades is a fail.

I've watched every snap that both Free and Tyron have played in the NFL at least 10 times each.

Sorry, I find that very hard to believe. Unless you are trying to say you have watched every game they happen to be in. And even doing THAT 10 times sounds utterly ridiculous.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Some of these guys are trying to predict where they will be drafted. A guy from a division 2 school would never be ranked high.

A guy(QB) from division 2 school went #2 overall four years ago.

 

[xwalker]

Lets forget about what you hope for with Hill. What is your evaluation of him based on what we have seen?

Hill has the required physical ability. He is big, strong and very quick.

His biggest problem was playing against zone run blocking. It's hard to really judge because the entire Marinelli defense struggled against zone run blocking.

DL can easily look silly vs zone run blocking if they get out of position because they're having to take on blocks while moving sideways.
- A well timing double-team against a DL that is not in perfect position will make that DL look silly. That happened to Hill a few times.

There were a couple of plays where Hill was so quick off the snap that he almost hit the RB before the hand-off.

Hill's probability of success is totally dependent on his ability to "take coaching" in 2020.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

if Thomas could start for the majority of teams then he would be. I like him as a backup but lets not get carried away here.

Dalton could start for many teams, but he won't be.
Looney could have started for many teams last year, but he didn't.

It's not as simple as you would like it to be. Thomas' play has been on par with starters of most NFL teams the last two years.

 

[fivetwos]

PFF is garbage and most people here understand that by now.

One year they had Doug Free as better than Tyron Smith.

I was going to ask you what you saw from Erving based on another recent post of yours.

Not arguing against, but I do know he wasnt good in Cleveland.

I respect your opinion and having a guy with that kind of versatility is huge. Maybe tackle is more his thing than center was.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Fun fact with Erving

The Chiefs were undefeated in the 8 games he didn't start in regular season
The Chiefs were 4-4 in the games that Erving started in the regular season. He allowed 5 sacks and had 7 penalties in these 8 game.

Was the difference in record solely because of Erving? Nope. Was he part of the problem? Oh yeah.

 

[CowboyRoy]

A guy(QB) from division 2 school went #2 overall four years ago.

Who was that?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Hill has the required physical ability. He is big, strong and very quick.

His biggest problem was playing against zone run blocking. It's hard to really judge because the entire Marinelli defense struggled against zone run blocking.

DL can easily look silly vs zone run blocking if they get out of position because they're having to take on blocks while moving sideways.
- A well timing double-team against a DL that is not in perfect position will make that DL look silly. That happened to Hill a few times.

There were a couple of plays where Hill was so quick off the snap that he almost hit the RB before the hand-off.

Hill's probability of success is totally dependent on his ability to "take coaching" in 2020.

Don't get caught up in the "physical attributes" thing.

The one big thing about Hill is that his upper body was definitely not strong enough to hold up. Lower body he has the strength. I think the upper body strength is what is holding him back. Can that be fixed or will it be fixed is a question mark.

Then we have the mental and attitude side of the game.