Cowboys Depth by Position

[CowboyRoy]

Dalton could start for many teams, but he won't be.
Looney could have started for many teams last year, but he didn't.

It's not as simple as you would like it to be. Thomas' play has been on par with starters of most NFL teams the last two years.

Give me a break. Dalton started for what 9 years on the NFL?

Looney is a backup that knows he is a backup. Else he would sign somewhere else for bigger money.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Give me a break. Dalton started for what 9 years on the NFL?

Looney is a backup that knows he is a backup. Else he would sign somewhere else for bigger money.

You're not helping your point.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Who was that?

Carson Wince

 

[CowboyRoy]

You're not helping your point.

Dalton started for 9 years genius. NO kidding he could start for some teams.

Which makes him a horrible example for you to use to backup your stance that a backup like Thomas can really start for half the NFL.

Totally two different scenarios. Only thing they have in common is that they are currently a backup.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Carson Wince

Actually James Madison is a division 1 school so my bad all around on that one.

 

[JBell]

Fun fact with Erving

The Chiefs were undefeated in the 8 games he didn't start in regular season
The Chiefs were 4-4 in the games that Erving started in the regular season. He allowed 5 sacks and had 7 penalties in these 8 game.

Was the difference in record solely because of Erving? Nope. Was he part of the problem? Oh yeah.

If we’re counting on him to be Tyron’s replacement for the annual three games he’s going to miss, we’re in trouble.

Saying he started games for a Super Bowl team, so he must be solid is not a great process for player evaluation.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

If we’re counting on him to be Tyron’s replacement for the annual three games he’s going to miss, we’re in trouble.

Saying he started games for a Super Bowl team, so he must be solid is not a great process for player
evaluation.

Exactly

Especially when "he's a definite upgrade" over a guy that we signed as a swing tackle from a Super Bowl winning team too.

Spewing nonsense again

 

[Kaiser]

Especially when "he's a definite upgrade" over a guy that we signed as a swing tackle from a Super Bowl winning team too.

Fleming was OK but he didn't look like a solid starter when he replaced Tyron. He was good as a low cost backup but he would be below average if he had start for a full season. He never started more than 7 games a season in NE.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Fleming was OK but he didn't look like a solid starter when he replaced Tyron. He was good as a low cost backup but he would be below average if he had start for a full season. He never started more than 7 games a season in NE.

I don't even Fleming was even OK as a swing. Thought we could have easily upgraded the position.

 

[buybuydandavis]

PFF is garbage and most people here understand that by now.

One year they had Doug Free as better than Tyron Smith.

Don't think so. What year? I don't see it.

Free was signed as our franchise LT because he looked like it on and off.

Like any metric, PFF's scores won't perfectly capture every year for every player, but Erving has been rated crap by them his entire career, season after season. If you want to believe he's great in spite of his consistently poor ratings, you go ahead.

The scores do *generally* correlate. To ignore them generally as garbage is to simply blind yourself to facts.

 

[Pantone282C]

TE: MartyB was never ready to start while he was in Dallas. He didn't know the plays.

DT: The most depth they've had at 1tech with Poe/Woods. Also Hill played as a 3-4 NT in college until his final season when they changed coaching staffs.

LB: Lee and Thomas are the best 3rd and 4th LBs they had in the Marinelli era. Gifford has better potential than any 5th LB I can remember in the Marinelli era.

WR: They basically replaced Cobb (and previously Beasley) with Lamb. That's more depth at outside WR because Cobb/Beasley were not really options there. I see Pollard as possibly the backup slot WR option or he takes some of those snaps even if he does not line up in the slot. I would be good if Devin Smith or one of the other WRs steps up to claim some playing time (Most teams like to limit the starting WRs to about 90% of the snaps).

I thought Ventell Bryant showed promise and Aaron Parker was used well throughout the whole route tree and has good sideline catch ability.

 

[xwalker]

I've watched every snap that both Free and Tyron have played in the NFL at least 10 times each.

Sorry, I find that very hard to believe. Unless you are trying to say you have watched every game they happen to be in. And even doing THAT 10 times sounds utterly ridiculous.

Yes, I've watched all snaps that both players have played on offense.

I don't watch them on field goals...

During commercials I go back and review all plays multiple times.

Then during the week I review the games both on the DVR and with the coaches film.

 

[xwalker]

Don't think so. What year? I don't see it.

Free was signed as our franchise LT because he looked like it on and off.

Like any metric, PFF's scores won't perfectly capture every year for every player, but Erving has been rated crap by them his entire career, season after season. If you want to believe he's great in spite of his consistently poor ratings, you go ahead.

The scores do *generally* correlate. To ignore them generally as garbage is to simply blind yourself to facts.

PFF publishes "grades" within about 24 hours.

That's 46 players and 16 games per week.

There are about 70 snaps on offense and 70 snap on defense per game. That's 140 x 22 x 16 = 49,280 snaps to "grade" within 24 hours.

It would require a minimum of 5 minutes per snap per player to get a quality evaluation.

That's 246,400 minutes or 4107 hours per week.

If one "grader" works 8 hours, that's 513 "graders" required.

Getting consistent results from 513 "graders" is basically impossible.

Then consider that they hire people with zero experience to "grade film" and it becomes impossible to obtain quality results.

Below is a job opening posted by PFF for a "grader". The next image is a resume from a person that worked as a "grader" for PFF. Notice his experience prior to PFF was selling paint.

 

[xwalker]

I was going to ask you what you saw from Erving based on another recent post of yours.

Not arguing against, but I do know he wasnt good in Cleveland.

I respect your opinion and having a guy with that kind of versatility is huge. Maybe tackle is more his thing than center was.

I'm not saying that he is a quality starter.

I reviewed him in multiple games last season when he started 8 games for the Chiefs at LT.

He was OK. His issues remind me of the issues Xavier Sua-Filo had at OG.
- Both are good to very good on many snaps but both have a few snaps where they look terrible and appear to lose concentration or forget the snap count.

Fleming was on the verge of collapse on almost all pass blocking snaps. He is just too sluggish at LT.
- Erving has much better physical ability to move at LT, he's just not consistent on 100% of the snaps.

The Chiefs were reportedly satisfied with his performance but he was scheduled to make about 5M and they didn't want to pay that much for a backup OL.


Fleming signed with the Giants. The interesting thing with Fleming is that he might be a better starting RT than he is a swing Tackle because playing LT is his problem.

 

[fivetwos]

I'm not saying that he is a quality starter.

I reviewed him in multiple games last season when he started 8 games for the Chiefs at LT.

He was OK. His issues remind me of the issues Xavier Sua-Filo had at OG.
- Both are good to very good on many snaps but both have a few snaps where they look terrible and appear to lose concentration or forget the snap count.

Fleming was on the verge of collapse on almost all pass blocking snaps. He is just too sluggish at LT.
- Erving has much better physical ability to move at LT, he's just not consistent on 100% of the snaps.

The Chiefs were reportedly satisfied with his performance but he was scheduled to make about 5M and they didn't want to pay that much for a backup OL.


Fleming signed with the Giants. The interesting thing with Fleming is that he might be a better starting RT than he is a swing Tackle because playing LT is his problem.

Thanks for that.

I've been hoping that we would sign a swing tackle, then I forgot that Erving is probably that guy.

How many times have we seen a 1st round center bust reinvent himself at LT?

Trying to account for possible misuse of Williams in the past remain to be seen, and injuries moving forward are impossible.

While I see a ton of depth elsewhere on the OL, I think we end up scrambling of we have an issue w Tyron....maybe even if only for a game or two.

If you think Erving can do it I feel a bit better.

 

[buybuydandavis]

PFF publishes "grades" within about 24 hours.

That's 46 players and 16 games per week.

There are about 70 snaps on offense and 70 snap on defense per game. That's 140 x 22 x 16 = 49,280 snaps to "grade" within 24 hours.

It would require a minimum of 5 minutes per snap per player to get a quality evaluation.

That's 246,400 minutes or 4107 hours per week.

Obviously they make do with less than 5 minutes per player per play. And their "grades" "are" "generally" "accurate".

 

[xwalker]

Thanks for that.

I've been hoping that we would sign a swing tackle, then I forgot that Erving is probably that guy.

How many times have we seen a 1st round center bust reinvent himself at LT?

Trying to account for possible misuse of Williams in the past remain to be seen, and injuries moving forward are impossible.

While I see a ton of depth elsewhere on the OL, I think we end up scrambling of we have an issue w Tyron....maybe even if only for a game or two.

If you think Erving can do it I feel a bit better.

Erving played OT in college.

Erving played in three games as a defensive tackle as a true freshman in 2010. He recorded one tackle before a back injury caused him to have a medical redshirt. He was a backup defensive tackle and played in all 13 games as a redshirt freshman in 2011. He finished the season with 20 tackles and one sack.

Erving was moved to offensive tackle as a sophomore in 2012. He started all 14 games at left tackle, protecting quarterback EJ Manuel's blind side.

As a junior in 2013, Erving was a first-team All-ACC selection at left tackle, after protecting quarterback Jameis Winston's blind side, who became the youngest player ever to win the Heisman Trophy. He was also named a second-team All-American by the Associated Press.

He began his senior season in 2014 as the starting left tackle, but was moved to center after Austin Barron suffered an arm injury in the fifth game against Wake Forest University.

Erving made 42 consecutive starts on the offensive line during his college career.

 

[fivetwos]

Erving played OT in college.

Erving played in three games as a defensive tackle as a true freshman in 2010. He recorded one tackle before a back injury caused him to have a medical redshirt. He was a backup defensive tackle and played in all 13 games as a redshirt freshman in 2011. He finished the season with 20 tackles and one sack.

Erving was moved to offensive tackle as a sophomore in 2012. He started all 14 games at left tackle, protecting quarterback EJ Manuel's blind side.

As a junior in 2013, Erving was a first-team All-ACC selection at left tackle, after protecting quarterback Jameis Winston's blind side, who became the youngest player ever to win the Heisman Trophy. He was also named a second-team All-American by the Associated Press.

He began his senior season in 2014 as the starting left tackle, but was moved to center after Austin Barron suffered an arm injury in the fifth game against Wake Forest University.

Erving made 42 consecutive starts on the offensive line during his college career.

Thanks for the info.

Cleveland used him as a center though yes?

Let's hope we dont find out, but let's say Tyron misses significant time.

Are you good with Erving replacing him long term?

Or would they maybe look at moving Collins to LT and using Knight, Williams or Hyatt at RT?

Hyatt and Williams were both highly regarded college LTs.

Typing this out I can certainly see why they didnt want to overpay Fleming, and I've gotta commend the FO for putting together a ton of depth along the OL.

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[xwalker]

Thanks for the info.

Cleveland used him as a center though yes?

Let's hope we dont find out, but let's say Tyron misses significant time.

Are you good with Erving replacing him long term?

Or would they maybe look at moving Collins to LT and using Knight, Williams or Hyatt at RT?

Hyatt and Williams were both highly regarded college LTs.

Typing this out I can certainly see why they didnt want to overpay Fleming, and I've gotta commend the FO for putting together a ton of depth along the OL.

Thanks again for the responses.

Yes, he played OC in Cleveland. He has literally played all 5 positions.

Erving managed OK in 8 starts at LT for the Super Bowl champs.

I'm not too worried if they need a backup to start at RT.

If Tyron is out for an extended period of time I would hope that Connor Williams is at least practicing at LT; although, he needs some practice reps there in camp/preseason to make it a realistic option during the season.

By drafting McGovern in 2019 and Biadasz in 2020 it definitely seems that they might have it in mind to cross-train Connor Williams at OT.

 

[Eastex]

Swing OT should list Knight and Hyatt also since they may both challenge Irving for that backup position.