Cowboys need to stop faking, let Will McClay do his job in free agency

[Alexander]

Ummmmm.............. I think I said this exact thing in the post you responded to.

That fact is exactly why he is not a reasonable player to target. There are perhaps what, five DEs worth even taking a look at?

It is like having a bad draft class. What you are suggesting is the same as reaching for player just because you have to have one.

Spotrac does estimates (not sure how accurate they turn out to be) but I think they had Addison at around $6-7MM a year for 3-4 years. Seems reasonable to me and I would take that risk. He's immediately the best pass rusher on our team.

I have seen the Sportrac thing and I don't know if that's right but if it is dead on, he still doesn't make sense.

I am not paying a 30 year old situational rusher with three career starts 4 years, $28M.

Here are the others to compare:

Campbell 4 years, $33M
Pierre-Paul 5 years, $73M
Sheard 5 years, $42M
Charles Johnson 3 years, $17M
Branch 5 years, $36M

I have seen a lot of Panther football and to me, he benefits a lot with the surrounding cast and coming off the bench with fresh legs. Asking a 30 year old never starting player to suddenly play up to a contract is a lot.

I guess it is easy to get all excited about sack numbers but there is a lot more to being a good player than just recording the numbers. You have people around here running around saying that Olivier Vernon was not a good FA investment because he had low sack numbers.

Were we in a different place, I might be more supportive. I just think banking on this player to be the solution is only asking for it.

But hey, if you want to pour his money into a stud CB or Eric Berry, fine by me.

Why does it have to be either or?

 

[Alexander]

Lol seems we're the only ones seeing this. DEs this year suck.

I think if most people sat down and were calm about it, they would realize it too.

The most prudent approach, unfortunately, is to look at attacking in the draft and hard with a moderate FA and praying that Gregory gets cleared.

It still won't stop people from wondering where Jerry Jones' jet is a minute into free agency.

I can see it now.

HAI GUYS! I was just flying out of CLT last night and I saw THE PLANE!

 

[stilltheguru88]

Logan isn't a pressure guy though. So if you are thinking you can fix the pass rush by beefing up the DT spot because the DE FA class is weak, Logan isn't really the guy that's going to change that IMO.

Don't go by sack numbers. He frees up guys to make plays.

 

[Stash]

If someone offers him some ridiculous deal, sure, pass.

But if you can get him on a deal for a bit more money than something Robert Ayers go or even Mario Williams got, it's a no brainer IMO.

"More money" than what Mario Williams got? The guy was paid $8.5 million to be inactive for the Dolphins! And they'll soon pay another $2 million just to be rid of him. And, like Addison, he's a player over 30 whose production fell off a cliff. He's a great example of why not to sign these guys and I'm honestly glad that you brought his name up.

Again, what's your solution?

I'm in line with what the team has stated they'll do, look to the draft for answers and continue to build there. That's where the team greatest successes have come from and their recent prudence in free agency has paid off well, to the tune of a 13-win season.

If they want to add an inexpensive pass rusher later on at a reasonable rate, I'd be happy with that. But what I don't want to see them do is to overpay guys like JPP or Addison, guys with question marks, looking for their one huge payday.

I know they really need a pass rusher, but I don't want them to be reckless in acquiring one.

 

[Alexander]

Don't go by sack numbers. He frees up guys to make plays.

The end of the day result should be to improve the talent overall. Not just thinking you buy an edge rusher and it is all fixed. I want pressure inside. I would even pay in FA for it.

Plug Mario Addison on this team, right now. Who thinks he gets big time sack numbers? I would think having Short, Lotulelei pushing the middle helped out.

 

[Sydla]

That fact is exactly why he is not a reasonable player to target. There are perhaps what, five DEs worth even taking a look at?

It is like having a bad draft class. What you are suggesting is the same as reaching for player just because you have to have one.



I have seen the Sportrac thing and I don't know if that's right but if it is dead on, he still doesn't make sense.

I am not paying a 30 year old situational rusher with three career starts 4 years, $28M.

Here are the others to compare:

Campbell 4 years, $33M
Pierre-Paul 5 years, $73M
Sheard 5 years, $42M
Charles Johnson 3 years, $17M
Branch 5 years, $36M

I have seen a lot of Panther football and to me, he benefits a lot with the surrounding cast and coming off the bench with fresh legs. Asking a 30 year old never starting player to suddenly play up to a contract is a lot.

I guess it is easy to get all excited about sack numbers but there is a lot more to being a good player than just recording the numbers. You have people around here running around saying that Olivier Vernon was not a good FA investment because he had low sack numbers.

Were we in a different place, I might be more supportive. I just think banking on this player to be the solution is only asking for it.



Why does it have to be either or?

Well for one, it has to be either/or because we know Stephen isn't going to pour a lot of money into FAs. That's just the reality. So if they do the unthinkable and go after a Berry and drop $12MM a year on him, they certainly aren't coming back and dropping $8MM on a WR or pass rusher or drop $10MM on a CB.

The 4 years, $28MM is nothing. For one, it all depends on guaranteed money. If he stinks, he'll never see that $28MM and the Cowboys won't be carrying a massive cap hit. This is the same logic some used to justify not signing a guy like Ayers last year. Ayers contract is 3 years, $20MM. Which is meaningless because he can be cut now and won't result in any dead money. So you could absolutely hand a guy like Addison a 4 year deal for $28MM which would really only be a 2 year deal in terms of cap hits.

And we use a rotation here anyway so it's not like you'd be asking Addison to play 90% of the snaps anyway.

 

[Sydla]

Don't go by sack numbers. He frees up guys to make plays.

Not really. He doesn't get double a lot because he had Fletcher Cox alongside him who often ate up the interior double team.

Logan is not a collapse the pocket, rush the passer type of DT. He's just not. He had limited pressures last year even in playing in Schwartz's attacking style of defense. He's a nice DT, but he's your run stopping DT primarily. If you are looking for a pressure style DT at the 1 tech, you should look elsewhere.

 

[Jake]

http://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/201...ng-let-will-mcclay-do-his-job-in-free-agency/

The author lists several "splash" free agent moves - most of which proved to be bad investments - and says the Cowboys need to do it again to get over the top.

 

[Sydla]

"More money" than what Mario Williams got? The guy was paid $8.5 million to be inactive for the Dolphins! And they'll soon pay another $2 million just to be rid of him. And, like Addison, he's a player over 30 whose production fell off a cliff. He's a great example of why not to sign these guys and I'm honestly glad that you brought his name up.



I'm in line with what the team has stated they'll do, look to the draft for answers and continue to build there. That's where the team greatest successes have come from and their recent prudence in free agency has paid off well, to the tune of a 13-win season.

If they want to add an inexpensive pass rusher later on at a reasonable rate, I'd be happy with that. But what I don't want to see them do is to overpay guys like JPP or Addison, guys with question marks, looking for their one huge payday.

I know they really need a pass rusher, but I don't want them to be reckless in acquiring one.

To put JPP and Addison in the same class as an expense is laughable. Addison won't get anywhere near the stratosphere that JPP will likely get.

Addison is likely going to fall in the Mario Williams range of contract IMO. Which is certainly doable and acceptable. $2MM in dead money for 2017 like Williams carries is worth it to take a chance to improve the pass rush. You guys are acting like Addison would be a Demarcus Ware type cap problem at the end of his run.

He's not going to command that type of market.

Addison is the type of mid-level FA this team should be looking at to address the pass rush along with the draft. Because let's be honest. A rookie is likely not going to change the pass rush. So it's not like you are going to draft a guy at 28 and he's going to drop 8-10 sacks for you and be that guy that teams fear off the edge. It rarely happens.

I also get the logic that maybe we should invest instead in a DT that can collapse the pocket.......... but those guys are going to cost a ton. There is talk Poe and Short could be looking at $15MM a year.

 

[Alexander]

The 4 years, $28MM is nothing. For one, it all depends on guaranteed money. If he stinks, he'll never see that $28MM and the Cowboys won't be carrying a massive cap hit. This is the same logic some used to justify not signing a guy like Ayers last year. Ayers contract is 3 years, $20MM. Which is meaningless because he can be cut now and won't result in any dead money. So you could absolutely hand a guy like Addison a 4 year deal for $28MM which would really only be a 2 year deal in terms of cap hits.

Ayers signed a $19.5M contract with $10.5M guaranteed also at age 30, if I am not mistaken. Little bit of a difference there. Ayers also came in with a FA DE class with Vernon, Pierre-Paul, Derrick Shelby (a bust who got 4 yrs. $21M), Mario Williams (2 yrs. $17M; 15 was guaranteed or SB), William Hayes (3 yrs. $21M). The front end money is what I think he will be after given his age. So you are probably looking at $11M-15 early in the contract.

 

[fairviewfarmer]

How has Romo's big money contract worked out so far?

 

[Stash]

To put JPP and Addison in the same class as an expense is laughable. Addison won't get anywhere near the stratosphere that JPP will likely get.

Addison is likely going to fall in the Mario Williams range of contract IMO. Which is certainly doable and acceptable. $2MM in dead money for 2017 like Williams carries is worth it to take a chance to improve the pass rush. You guys are acting like Addison would be a Demarcus Ware type cap problem at the end of his run.

He's not going to command that type of market.

I gave you the "Mario Williams range of contract". The Dolphins will end up paying him $10 million for one lousy season of work, a season in which he was benched. That's neither "doable", nor "acceptable". You may want to try to disregard or make light of those numbers, but I'm not.

Addison is the type of mid-level FA this team should be looking at to address the pass rush along with the draft. Because let's be honest. A rookie is likely not going to change the pass rush. So it's not like you are going to draft a guy at 28 and he's going to drop 8-10 sacks for you and be that guy that teams fear off the edge. It rarely happens.

I'll agree on a rookie likely not getting 8-10 sacks his first season, but "Mario Williams range" is a far cry from "mid-level FA" money. If you can tell me they can sign Addison for $5 million a year, I'd be interested. But this is his one shot at a big free agent deal and he's going to be looking to maximize it. And paying big money to a guy who has bounced around the league and doesn't even start isn't something I want to see the Cowboys do.

I also get the logic that maybe we should invest instead in a DT that can collapse the pocket.......... but those guys are going to cost a ton. There is talk Poe and Short could be looking at $15MM a year.

And we're at the bottom of the list when it comes to cap space. And before the self-proclaimed experts chime in, I'm aware that we can create space, but so can all of the other teams who already have a ton of cap room. Like it or not, this team isn't spending big in free agency.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

So the point of the article is to give McClay a blank check and go get that great pass rusher.

Funny how it never suggest who exactly he is supposed to go out and get.

The other thing it really spends a lot of time talking about (the cap issues), it suggests we need to do that again.

Which is what infuriates me when fans say that. Teams don't just let pass rushers walk. If there is an older guy on a team who is going no where, you *may* be able to trade for one, but we won't be able to just sign one...

 

[Sydla]

I gave you the "Mario Williams range of contract". The Dolphins will end up paying him $10 million for one lousy season of work, a season in which he was benched. That's neither "doable", nor "acceptable". You may want to try to disregard or make light of those numbers, but I'm not.




I'll agree on a rookie likely not getting 8-10 sacks his first season, but "Mario Williams range" is a far cry from "mid-level FA" money. If you can tell me they can sign Addison for $5 million a year, I'd be interested. But this is his one shot at a big free agent deal and he's going to be looking to maximize it. And paying big money to a guy who has bounced around the league and doesn't even start isn't something I want to see the Cowboys do.



And we're at the bottom of the list when it comes to cap space. And before the self-proclaimed experts chime in, I'm aware that we can create space, but so can all of the other teams who already have a ton of cap room. Like it or not, this team isn't spending big in free agency.

You are looking at the Williams situation from the worst case perspective. They took a risk on a guy and it didn't work out. So after one year, they will likely cut him with minimal pain. You can't just assume every FA deal will result in the player sucking like Williams did. I mean technically, we could sign Eric Berry and he blow a knee out and is never the same player again and we are straddled with a $50MM+ deal with tons of dead cap.

Addison, IMO, won't be the bust Williams was. Safer selection, with maybe not an upside of Williams but also not the floor.

And let's note, I have not yet once suggested that we just go and sign him at all costs. The reason I picked him as a target is because of what I think his price would be. If he's in that 5-7MM range, I think it's a smart signing. If his number is creeping up in that 8-9, maybe $10MM range............. hell no, you run like the wind. Shoot if you are entertaining spending $10MM on a guy like Addison, I'd rather spend the $10MM on a guy like Bouye at CB.

 

[Stash]

You are looking at the Williams situation from the worst case perspective. They took a risk on a guy and it didn't work out. So after one year, they will likely cut him with minimal pain. You can't just assume every FA deal will result in the player sucking like Williams did. I mean technically, we could sign Eric Berry and he blow a knee out and is never the same player again and we are straddled with a $50MM+ deal with tons of dead cap.

Addison, IMO, won't be the bust Williams was. Safer selection, with maybe not an upside of Williams but also not the floor.

William certainly had the pedigree, but the guy just quit once he got paid in Buffalo, and then was able to convince the Dolphins that wouldn't happen again - until it happened again.

But, I'm always skeptical of these guys who have career years in their contract years. And a guy like Addison who doesn't even start scares me a bit. This is his one shot, he'll be looking to cash in. And, in a thin crop of free agents, he likely will.

And let's note, I have not yet once suggested that we just go and sign him at all costs. The reason I picked him as a target is because of what I think his price would be. If he's in that 5-7MM range, I think it's a smart signing. If his number is creeping up in that 8-9, maybe $10MM range............. hell no, you run like the wind. Shoot if you are entertaining spending $10MM on a guy like Addison, I'd rather spend the $10MM on a guy like Bouye at CB.

Ok, I can deal with a $5 - $7 MM range. And after rechecking Mario Williams's deal, he'll end up costing Miami $8.5 million, not $10 million. But, again, I'm still leery of giving that kind of money to a guy who doesn't start.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

No doubt, but he's had more hits than misses in my estimation and it doesn't make sense to sit in the corner scared to make a mistake when you A) know you can absorb a contract and it not submarine you in future years and B) finally have someone who is making great personnel decisions to mitigate the risk.

There's risk in every football move. Letting fear of that risk cripple you when you've covered as many bases as possible is bad business imo.

Yes, sir.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

OK, that's likely it for now for me here folks... near impossible to stay active on boards. Feel free to engage me on Twitter @KDDrummondNFL or @TheCowboysWire. My personal acct is mixed bag of everything. The latter is strictly football.

Cheers to you all- you have had a great community for a long time.

KD! Come back, KD! We love you, KD!
Also, KD, I have all your albums!

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Do we really know his hit or misses? Only thing us fans know is that his hiring coincides with us all of a sudden having better drafts.

Remarkably better draft in 2016, old fellow!
Yet, what was his role re Gregory, rolling the dice on Smith and re that Ro McClain lad?
Hits and misses. Here's to more draft and FA successes this spring!

 

[Macnalty]

It's not horrible, only his first year and his SB were guaranteed, total $6m. So there's $3.75 million of unamoritzed bonus that would need to be accounted for. Do it now, it's all dead money on this year's cap. Do it after June 1st (which isn't June 1st anymore, it's in May) and it's $1.25m dead money this year, $2.5m dead money in 2018.

That's not the hurdle, at least by itself.

Thornton only played 275 snaps last year, meaning if they cut him now they paid $6 million for 275 snaps. They aren't doing that without throwing this year's $3 million in base salary at it to see if he improves. They made a bad call projecting him as a penetrating one-tech. I didn't like the signing because it's hard enough to envision someone in a similar scheme.. projecting pass rushing skills from a guy in a 3-4 who doesn't rush was highly questionable. Just gotta hope he plays better in Year 2, he'll be here.

Thornton played better the second half of the season which probably meant he was injured, same with Crawford, this is the same scenario that happened in the late nineties with Greg Ellis they move him all over the line to makeup for shortcoming in talent and then *****ed about him not making the pro bowl being a first round selection. Crawford full strength is a legit starter at 3 technique IMO, I understand he is the favorite whipping boy these days because of his contract. If he had stayed healthy we would of had a bargain just like with Jay Ratliff in his first contract. Nobody gets these contracts right all the time, you can go to any fan website and see the missed opportunities being moaned about daily(Jarvis Jones Pitt). If anything we are better than most, cowboys just have some very demanding fans who sometimes lament about every missed chance. I still like our chances for 2017 even with just adding talent from the draft. No FA's out there hold any value for taking this defense to the next level at DE. Now CB's that is a different situation.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Did I actually type "right up" instead of "write up"? Ugh! I'm ashamed.

Feel the shame mister, because the rest of us here are perfect.