TRADED Cowboys trading for Titans LB Kenneth Murray Jr.

[thunderpimp91]

I misunderstood your point, but I think you misunderstood the original point as well. I think the other posters point though, was that these are not Jerry and Stephen's opinions and that they really have no opinions of their own on them which is different than what happens with the GM of every other team, which I totally agree with. They may be in some of the meetings (I highly doubt all or even most of them), but I don't think they are doing any more than listening and giving the final OK or in Stephen's case a begrudging agreement to forego some of his inheritance.

I don't doubt that these are guys the coaching staff has input on, but his thought process by the other poster that this isnt the Cowboys just being cheap is 100% ridiculous. You cant tell me that if budget wasn't a factor that this coaching staff wouldn't be targeting more established players. We can argue all day about who is making these calls, but honestly I think its the least significant piece of my reply.

Jerry/Stephen picking these guys, being part of meetings discussing these guys is whatever. I'm sure they are involved to some extent but to what that is we can all only assume. It could even be more of a McClay factor than Jerry/Stephen I really dont know. What we do know is that Jerry/Stephen are setting the budget, and it is restricting who the Cowboys can go out and get. We also know from other deals that what they had on these guys coming out of the draft is a major influence on this front office right now as well....which may even be more indication that McClay is calling a lot of the shots?

I'm starting to ramble and honestly not even sure what we are arguing over lol so I'll just wrap this up. If we agree that Jerry/Stephen = bad I'm sure there is an easy middle ground for us to find here.

 

[Londonboy]

If He plays better than the majority of 6th rounders in this draft, then We got Our money's worth, plus a 7th rnd pick.

 

[gimmesix]

Make no mistake!

the new coaching staff somebody wanted this guy and they got it,

now it is up to them to make it work...

You guys really think that Steven and Jerry are sitting up there and know who this guy is?

like literally just popped up in their brain we should go sign this guy.

Nobody is saying Jerry and Stephen know who these players are, only that they set the parameters for how much we're willing to pay. If you have $10 million to work with, you can get a higher-quality player than if you have $3 million to work with. The coaches and McClay know they are limited by what this front office pays for outside free agents.

 

[blueblood70]

Nobody is saying Jerry and Stephen know who these players are, only that they set the parameters for how much we're willing to pay. If you have $10 million to work with, you can get a higher-quality player than if you have $3 million to work with. The coaches and McClay know they are limited by what this front office pays for outside free agents.

I acknowledge that... However what I'm saying is all teams have these types of players for these types of amounts all over the rosters ,

You all try to separate the jones family from the herd, but most teams build their rosters this way, and then occasionally, add a big name free agent or score in the draft..

we have time to see if that works out for the Cowboys,​

​

what I'm saying is rosters sometimes are built starting the way the Cowboys have and then looking for the big pieces after the draft IER trade or late releasees, is what they're probably going to do, but either way they would have had to address what they've addressed up to this point.​

they're signed about 16 players, some of their own, some outside free agents, some futures and they lost a few players..

it's pretty common, this is common I'm trying to tell you,

that just because they don't start out week 1 or FA and just go out and go crazy taking high risk moves to get some of the big names, say Bryce huff, I know it's the most recent example, I can think of, overpaying for a TOP TIER 1 FA defensive end absolutely was a total bust in year one with the eagles, it didn't matter they made enough good moves..

 

[thunderpimp91]

I acknowledge that... However what I'm saying is all teams have these types of players for these types of amounts all over the rosters ,

You all try to separate the jones family from the herd, but most teams build their rosters this way, and then occasionally, add a big name free agent or score in the draft..

we have time to see if that works out for the Cowboys,​

​

what I'm saying is rosters sometimes are built starting the way the Cowboys have and then looking for the big pieces after the draft IER trade or late releasees, is what they're probably going to do, but either way they would have had to address what they've addressed up to this point.​

they're signed about 16 players, some of their own, some outside free agents, some futures and they lost a few players..

it's pretty common, this is common I'm trying to tell you,

that just because they don't start out week 1 or FA and just go out and go crazy taking high risk moves to get some of the big names, say Bryce huff, I know it's the most recent example, I can think of, overpaying for a TOP TIER 1 FA defensive end absolutely was a total bust in year one with the eagles, it didn't matter they made enough good moves..

This is not common and its embarrassing the extent that you're trying to justify the last couple offseasons the Cowboys have had. What big pieces are left to add after the draft? How often do you see teams make major moves after the draft?

The Cowboys have spent $22M on free agents so far this year. Last year they spent $21M. The only teams below the Cowboys in spending this offseason are Philly who spend $156M a year ago, and Baltimore who spent $47M a year ago. This is extremely rare to see a team spend this little money in free agency in back to back season. I'm sure they will still do more this year but they are already significantly behind the rest of the the league. Half the league has already spent over $100M each so I struggle to see how this is at all normal.

Also Bryce Huff is the perfect reason why FA spending should not be a big deal. Bryce Huff counted as 1.7% of the cap a year ago and will count just 2.7% of the cap this year. They have an out in his contract after this season if he still isnt healthy/producing. Even at just 2.7% of the cap this year even if Huff is a rotational piece it doesnt kill them financially at all. Philly literally won the frickin super bowl a year ago with a dud FA move.....why again do the Cowboys fear a miss on a bigger free agent? This is nothing but them being cheap.

 

[boysfanindc]

I'm sorry, but I don't think there is any chance Jerry and/or Stephen knew any of these guys that we acquired this week a month ago. Maybe their names, but that's about it. There are 80 starting OL in the AFC. How many do you think Jerry and Stephen can name?

Maybe that is the problem you have people doing the GM job who don't know the players they are bringing in, where does that happen anywhere else in the league. A GM is supposed to know the players.

 

[MyFairLady]

27 years old on last year of a deal this are the types of moves that have real upside potential and little to no risk.

 

[thunderpimp91]

27 years old on last year of a deal this are the types of moves that have real upside potential and little to no risk.

Agree on the player. The risk that comes in is when the Cowboys make a move like this without any complementary move. This is the type of move you want to pair with a veteran or highish draft pick to compete with in camp to earn a spot. The risk comes when the buy low upside guy is plan A instead of plan B.

 

[Jarntt]

Maybe that is the problem you have people doing the GM job who don't know the players they are bringing in, where does that happen anywhere else in the league. A GM is supposed to know the players.

Maybe that's the problem? I'd say 100% that's a huge part of the problem

 

[gimmesix]

I acknowledge that... However what I'm saying is all teams have these types of players for these types of amounts all over the rosters ,

You all try to separate the jones family from the herd, but most teams build their rosters this way, and then occasionally, add a big name free agent or score in the draft..

we have time to see if that works out for the Cowboys,​

​

what I'm saying is rosters sometimes are built starting the way the Cowboys have and then looking for the big pieces after the draft IER trade or late releasees, is what they're probably going to do, but either way they would have had to address what they've addressed up to this point.​

they're signed about 16 players, some of their own, some outside free agents, some futures and they lost a few players..

it's pretty common, this is common I'm trying to tell you,

that just because they don't start out week 1 or FA and just go out and go crazy taking high risk moves to get some of the big names, say Bryce huff, I know it's the most recent example, I can think of, overpaying for a TOP TIER 1 FA defensive end absolutely was a total bust in year one with the eagles, it didn't matter they made enough good moves..

Expensive moves are going to bust at times. You don't swing for the fences without striking out at times. The Eagles have plenty of strikeouts, but they've also hit some home runs that have helped them win two Super Bowls since 2018. The Joneses have chosen to bunt rather than strike out. This strategy has proven to be faulty, contributing to us not making an NFC Championship Game in 30 years.

Every fan should be OK with some roster-filling free agent signings, but when all of the signings are just roster fillers, there's a problem. Our fans (at least the vocal ones) seem to divide into two camps: Those who defend all the signings and those who complain about all the signings. It's not that black and white.

A team is not going to sign Odighizuwa to a market value of $80 million over four years and then turn around and sign a Milton Williams to rotate with him. The Solomon Thomas signing, as an example, should be kept in context that it is a depth signing. Same with Payton Turner and Robert Jones.

Signing Javonte Williams when we have no starting running back or Jack Sanborn and trading for Murray when we need starting linebackers can be debated as going cheap at positions that we could have made strengths by going after top-tier free agents. Yes, we could end up with starters at those positions in the draft, but now, to make the position better than it was, there's a very good possibility that we have to end up with starters in the draft. We could have spent the money to try to clearly improve those positions and drafted to try to upgrade other spots instead. Maybe we'll end up getting lucky, because it happens every now and again, but when players are cheap, there's a reason for it.

 

[gimmesix]

This is not common and its embarrassing the extent that you're trying to justify the last couple offseasons the Cowboys have had. What big pieces are left to add after the draft? How often do you see teams make major moves after the draft?

The Cowboys have spent $22M on free agents so far this year. Last year they spent $21M. The only teams below the Cowboys in spending this offseason are Philly who spend $156M a year ago, and Baltimore who spent $47M a year ago. This is extremely rare to see a team spend this little money in free agency in back to back season. I'm sure they will still do more this year but they are already significantly behind the rest of the the league. Half the league has already spent over $100M each so I struggle to see how this is at all normal.

Also Bryce Huff is the perfect reason why FA spending should not be a big deal. Bryce Huff counted as 1.7% of the cap a year ago and will count just 2.7% of the cap this year. They have an out in his contract after this season if he still isnt healthy/producing. Even at just 2.7% of the cap this year even if Huff is a rotational piece it doesnt kill them financially at all. Philly literally won the frickin super bowl a year ago with a dud FA move.....why again do the Cowboys fear a miss on a bigger free agent? This is nothing but them being cheap.

If we're going to have this free agent philosophy, and it appears it is going nowhere anytime soon, then I'd rather see Dallas double down. Instead of getting one low-rent RB, for example, get two. I like the Buffalo kid, Ty Johnson, who returned to the Bills for $2.5 million per year. I'd feel better if we had both him and Williams competing for a spot instead of just having Williams. Instead of just grabbing Solomon Thomas, sign DT Khyiris Tonga, who signed with New England for less than $3 million. Instead of just getting Turner, take a flier on DE Derek Barnett, who signed with Houston for $5 million.

If we're going to throw darts and see what sticks, let's throw a lot of them.

 

[thunderpimp91]

If we're going to have this free agent philosophy, and it appears it is going nowhere anytime soon, then I'd rather see Dallas double down. Instead of getting one low-rent RB, for example, get two. I like the Buffalo kid, Ty Johnson, who returned to the Bills for $2.5 million per year. I'd feel better if we had both him and Williams competing for a spot instead of just having Williams. Instead of just grabbing Solomon Thomas, sign DT Khyiris Tonga, who signed with New England for less than $3 million. Instead of just getting Turner, take a flier on DE Derek Barnett, who signed with Houston for $5 million.

If we're going to throw darts and see what sticks, let's throw a lot of them.

I would absolutely agree. If they want to go after a higher volume of bargain big players I'm all for it. Its not like they dont ever hit on these types....Carl Lawson and even Kendricks is a great example from a year ago, but lets create some serious competition with a lot of these guys as it becomes a numbers game as much as anything.

Of course the other side of that is if you're going to spend twice as much on bargain bin guys why not just spend the same amount and get higher quality players? For example instead of spending $4m each on two players just go get that $8M guy. Not sure that either method is wrong, but both require spending.

 

[big dog cowboy]

If He plays better than the majority of 6th rounders in this draft, then We got Our money's worth, plus a 7th rnd pick.

Good point. And that's why this trade was worth it.

 

[gimmesix]

I would absolutely agree. If they want to go after a higher volume of bargain big players I'm all for it. Its not like they dont ever hit on these types....Carl Lawson and even Kendricks is a great example from a year ago, but lets create some serious competition with a lot of these guys as it becomes a numbers game as much as anything.

Of course the other side of that is if you're going to spend twice as much on bargain bin guys why not just spend the same amount and get higher quality players? For example instead of spending $4m each on two players just go get that $8M guy. Not sure that either method is wrong, but both require spending.

I think the idea is it would cost a lot less if they don't work out, which is the reason the Joneses have given for sitting out high-cost free agency. If you're paying someone $4 million and he busts, is that really considered a bust at today's rates? But if you are paying him $8 million, then it's a bust.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I think the idea is it would cost a lot less if they don't work out, which is the reason the Joneses have given for sitting out high-cost free agency. If you're paying someone $4 million and he busts, is that really considered a bust at today's rates? But if you are paying him $8 million, then it's a bust.

Good point. Plus those $8M guys typically require multi year deals too.