D-Day - 70 Years Ago

[blindzebra]

yeah that 9000 number is very suspicious

Total casualties in all action were around 10k but that included wounded, missing, taken prisoner etc...

 

[Denim Chicken]

Every source I have seen has the Omaha Beach deaths at around 2,200. The total allies killed in all D-Day action was about 4,400 with around 2,700 being from US troops.

~9,000 dead includes:
4413 allied soldiers killed on the beaches
around 4000 axis soldiers killed during the landings
The figure for the campaign until the breakout was likely much higher than 9,000

 

[burmafrd]

~9,000 dead includes:
4413 allied soldiers killed on the beaches
around 4000 axis soldiers killed during the landings
The figure for the campaign until the breakout was likely much higher than 9,000

German casualties are very sketchy; I doubt that 4000 dead number.

 

[Denim Chicken]

German casualties are very sketchy; I doubt that 4000 dead number.

They seemed to use the low end of the estimates:

*The total German casualties on D-Day are not known, but are estimated as being between 4,000 and 9,000 men.

* Source: Portsmouth’s D-Day Museum website

 

[blindzebra]

~9,000 dead includes:
4413 allied soldiers killed on the beaches
around 4000 axis soldiers killed during the landings
The figure for the campaign until the breakout was likely much higher than 9,000

The ***** did not die on the beach.

 

[Denim Chicken]

The ***** did not die on the beach.

Alright bro, I didn't plan the exhibit.

 

[burmafrd]

They seemed to use the low end of the estimates:

*The total German casualties on D-Day are not known, but are estimated as being between 4,000 and 9,000 men.

* Source: Portsmouth’s D-Day Museum website

Flat out do not think that even close to 9000 died on D Day.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Flat out do not think that even close to 9000 died on D Day.

You mean total or Axis?

 

[burmafrd]

You mean total or Axis?

Total. A lot of 'german' soldiers there were actually not german and deserted the first chance they got. Or ran period. So the missing numbers were very misleading. And the German cemetaries there in Normandy show a lot fewer than 4000 dead dated even the first couple of days let alone D Day.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Total. A lot of 'german' soldiers there were actually not german and deserted the first chance they got. Or ran period. So the missing numbers were very misleading. And the German cemetaries there in Normandy show a lot fewer than 4000 dead dated even the first couple of days let alone D Day.

That's interesting. Below is what I was reading from the D-DAY website in regards to numbers:

"Casualties” refers to all losses suffered by the armed forces: killed, wounded, missing in action (meaning that their bodies were not found) and prisoners of war. There is no "official" casualty figure for D-Day. Under the circumstances, accurate record keeping was very difficult. For example, some troops who were listed as missing may actually have landed in the wrong place, and have rejoined their parent unit only later.

In April and May 1944, the Allied air forces lost nearly 12,000 men and over 2,000 aircraft in operations which paved the way for D-Day.

The Allied casualties figures for D-Day have generally been estimated at 10,000, including 2,500 dead. Broken down by nationality, the usual D-Day casualty figures are approximately 2,,700 British, 946 Canadians, and 6,603 Americans. However recent painstaking research by the US National D-Day Memorial Foundation has achieved a more accurate - and much higher - figure for the Allied personnel who were killed on D-Day. They have recorded the names of individual Allied personnel killed on 6 June 1944 in Operation Overlord, and so far they have verified 2,499 American D-Day fatalities and 1,914 from the other Allied nations, a total of 4,413 dead (much higher than the traditional figure of 2,500 dead). Further research may mean that these numbers will increase slightly in future. The details of this research will in due course be available on the Foundation's website at www.dday.org. This new research means that the casualty figures given for individual units in the next few paragraphs are no doubt inaccurate, and hopefully more accurate figures will one day be calculated.

Casualties on the British beaches were roughly 1,000 on Gold Beach and the same number on Sword Beach. The remainder of the British losses were amongst the airborne troops: some 600 were killed or wounded, and 600 more were missing; 100 glider pilots also became casualties. The losses of 3rd Canadian Division at Juno Beach have been given as 340 killed, 574 wounded and 47 taken prisoner.

The breakdown of US casualties was 1,465 dead, 3,184 wounded, 1,928 missing and 26 captured. Of the total US figure, 2,499 casualties were from the US airborne troops (238 of them being deaths). The casualties at Utah Beach were relatively light: 197, including 60 missing. However, the US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2,000 casualties at Omaha Beach.

The total German casualties on D-Day are not known, but are estimated as being between 4,000 and 9,000 men.

Naval losses for June 1944 included 24 warships and 35 merchantmen or auxiliaries sunk, and a further 120 vessels damaged.

Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces. Of the Allied casualties, 83,045 were from 21st Army Group (British, Canadian and Polish ground forces), 125,847 from the US ground forces. The losses of the German forces during the Battle of Normandy can only be estimated. Roughly 200,000 German troops were killed or wounded. The Allies also captured 200,000 prisoners of war (not included in the 425,000 total, above). During the fighting around the Falaise Pocket (August 1944) alone, the Germans suffered losses of around 90,000, including prisoners.

Today, twenty-seven war cemeteries hold the remains of over 110,000 dead from both sides: 77,866 German, 9,386 American, 17,769 British, 5,002 Canadian and 650 Poles.

Between 15,000 and 20,000 French civilians were killed, mainly as a result of Allied bombing. Thousands more fled their homes to escape the fighting.

 

[Aikmaniac]

Those numbers are just chilling. Excellent info though. Thanks Denim.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

So many interesting "what ifs" when it came to the war like...

-What if the UK and France hadn't been passive while Germany attacked Poland?
-What if Germany successfully invaded the UK?
-What if Germany never attacked the Soviet Union?
-What if Japan attacked the Soviet Union instead of the US?
-What if Germany had captured Moscow?

And one of the most interesting ones for me, which doesn't get a lot of air-time is what if Germany ramped up its war production much sooner? If you look at the numbers and read some of the historical background from the German perspective the string of quick & easy victories dampened the enthusiasm for escalating the building of military equipment until much later in the war.

The other "what if" if find interesting is the potential East-West clash in Germany upon the surrender of the German forces... There was potential friction there that could have led to Soviet-American/Anglo clash in the Spring of 1945.

The Germans were about 300m from the Volga River at Stalingrad. If they had gotten to the River, they win that battle and probably the war in the east. They didn't get there, the rest is history.

 

[burmafrd]

The Germans were about 300m from the Volga River at Stalingrad. If they had gotten to the River, they win that battle and probably the war in the east. They didn't get there, the rest is history.

Hitler got fixated on TAKING Stalingrad; his generals wanted to bypass it and not get caught up in street fighting. They knew the key was getting close enough to the Oil fields to have the Luftwaffe set them on fire. 85% of the oil production was there; there were other fields but not well developed. If they had done this the Red Army and Air Force runs out of gas and the war in the east is all but over.

 

[blindzebra]

Not to mention what the extermination of about 7 million innocent people in death camps took from the war effort.

 

[burmafrd]

Not to mention what the extermination of about 7 million innocent people in death camps took from the war effort.

Have always thought that number was low; I think it is closer to 9 million. Before the extermination camps were set up - and that was not until 1942- thousands and thousands were shot all over occupied Europe and very few records were kept. We won't even go into what happened in Russia when the SS and company showed up after the combat troops moved on.

 

[burmafrd]

You look at major wars in History and WW2 is the one that came closest to going the other way and the consequences would have been much worse. Every other major including WW1 if it had gone the other way history would have more or less stayed intact. Not if Hitler had been triumphant.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Hitler got fixated on TAKING Stalingrad; his generals wanted to bypass it and not get caught up in street fighting. They knew the key was getting close enough to the Oil fields to have the Luftwaffe set them on fire. 85% of the oil production was there; there were other fields but not well developed. If they had done this the Red Army and Air Force runs out of gas and the war in the east is all but over.

that is true, and for once you wrote something with which I can agree, even if I have to throw up after writing I agree with you.

He should have focussed on the Caucasus instead of splitting his forces in two and forcing the Sixth Army to try and take Stalingrad. Of course by 1942, his Generals had been "wrong" so often he no longer listened to them.

 

[burmafrd]

that is true, and for once you wrote something with which I can agree, even if I have to throw up after writing I agree with you.

He should have focussed on the Caucasus instead of splitting his forces in two and forcing the Sixth Army to try and take Stalingrad. Of course by 1942, his Generals had been "wrong" so often he no longer listened to them.

Hitler loved to remind his generals how often early in the war he had been right and they wrong; of course you were not allowed to point out his mistakes. Tended to get you shot....


Of course Stalin was much worse, the officer that warned him that Germany was about to be attacked was shot when it did occur.

 

[Aikmaniac]

Haven't seen the Luftwaffe mentioned as of yet.

The Germans were this close to having bombers capable of reaching the US, but they wouldn't have the fuel to get back. They just didn't have enough time to R&D.

A ton of thanks needs to go to North American and the Brits for the P-51 Mustang. It was the first Allied fighter with the ability to escort our bombers all the way in to Berlin and back.

 

[burmafrd]

Haven't seen the Luftwaffe mentioned as of yet.

The Germans were this close to having bombers capable of reaching the US, but they wouldn't have the fuel to get back. They just didn't have enough time to R&D.

A ton of thanks needs to go to North American and the Brits for the P-51 Mustang. It was the first Allied fighter with the ability to escort our bombers all the way in to Berlin and back.

Goering never believed in heavy bombers- thought they were unnecessary. Main reason all the Luftwaffe had were at best 'medium' bombers and were more accurately light bombers. Their main mission was ground support. The only protoype of a heavy bomber got destroyed by Allied Bombers and Goering canceled the program early in the war.