Dak - a balanced thread

[blueblood70]

Im in the middle I see some truth in boat arguments but wont agree with either until I see more..

 

[CWR]

Pathetic statement

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I didn't say completion % is accuracy, that's your statement. His inaccuracy rears it's head when he has poor footwork. Fix the footwork and you fix his inconsistency.

According to Romo pocket presence comes with repetition and years of work on the job. I'll agree with Romo who had suspect pocket pro sense early in his career.

Low INT #'s do have ti do with reading defenses. He doesnt get baited into their coverage like other QBs do. It's not all of it but it's a big part. You'll learn that.

No lol, the sacks and pocket presence go hand in hand.

Hey I'm just trying to make you more knowledgable! It will come with time and interaction with me. I can fix you!

I like the confidence you are showing. I think the years of training and effort I have put into you are starting to payoff. your arguments used to be on the stupid side, but now are more logical, so its good you are putting some thought into your posts. glad to see the improvement. again, I am very proud of you. it makes me very happy to see your progress.

his footwork are only part of his inaccuracy issues, there are two parts to being accurate, one, seeing in his mind's-eye where he needs to throw the ball. Aikman, Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Rivers, Brees and few others had/have the uncanny ability to see that as the play develops. The second part of it is to be able to successfully put the ball there where it needs to be. I think the footwork will improve his throwing, but he needs to continue to work on the first one. perhaps, and that remains to be seen, if he trusts himself more, he may improve there as well. There quite a few QBs who have the second part down, but not the first, such as cousins. he doesn't often know where he needs to put the ball.

we hope pocket presence comes from repetition, but this year showed he has a long way to go. too many sacks were his fault. how much can he correct? not sure. he may or may not.

low Int's are not necessarily from reading defenses. he is gun shy and goes for safe throws or take the ball down and run with it or worse take a sack. he is by his own nature not a risk taker. play it safe. for a young QB who is not expected to carry the team, that's a good thing. don't make mistakes. drive the bus and it leads to a lot of victories. its worked so far.

again, sacks and pocket presence not necessarily go hand in hand. there were quite a few plays, where he just didn't throw the ball, waiting too long to let the WR to get enough separation for him to trust his arm to throw the ball. some of what was recorded as sacks was sheer stupidity, when he ran out of bounce instead of just throw the ball away. a lot of his sacks could have been avoided by just throwing the ball away although the rush was right in front of him. yes, some of his sacks were due to lack of feeling pressure around him, specially from the right side.

again, I have to say, you make me proud. keep up the hard work. it will pay off. you are certainly improving. give yourself a pat on the back.

 

[Zman5]

Imo, this is an honest evaluation of Dak. He's not elite, but he doesn't need to be to get us to the super bowl. He showed improvement this season, but still has a ways to go reading defenses and anticipating receivers coming open. He needs to run more. When he does, it softens the defense. He could be our QB for years to come, but I do believe he needs competition.

Not many "elite" QB not named Brady has won many SBs. It's a myth that you need a "elite" QB to win a SB. In fact, Brady got beat by Foles. Is Foles "elite"?

Eli has more SB wins than Rodger, Wilson and Brees. Same number of SB wins as his brother and Roethlisberger.

Does anyone consider Eli "elite"?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Agree on all points. Dak is never going to be an elite Aaron Rodgers type but he is certainly capable of being a Steve McNair type that has a winning skillset.

I think that's his ceiling.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Hahaha. I have to say, it's been amusing watching your tear it up in this thread. I totally understand what you're saying. If you look at the recent NFL Drafts.... 31 QBs have been selected in the first 3 rounds from 2012-2017. (I'm not counting 2018 because those guys have played only 1 year) Only 8 of those are franchise QB material: Wilson, Foles, Carr, Luck, Wentz, Watson, Goff, and Mahomes. So let's say Wilson, Luck, and Mahomes are better. We can argue if Dak is not better than all the rest. He has 1 Pro Bowl selection... the same amount that Goff and Wentz and Carr has.

Bottom line, great QBs are hard to find. We can invest a first round draft pick on a QB, but there's only a 25% chance he's not a bust according to recent NFL Draft stats. You're gonna chance a franchise on 25% chance? The alternative - to get rid of Dak - is much riskier than keeping him. It's a safe bet going into next year knowing you at least have a QB that can give you a chance of winning.

A quarter of those selections are already out of the NFL, another percentage isn't gonna take another snap again, and the rest are 3rd stringers, with a few of those being back-ups with primarily mop-up duties. I'm just simply being realistic here.

I wouldn't count pro-bowl as any measure of success. bunch of other QBs turned down the probowl for Dak to get invited. which puts him at middle of the pack type of QB. that's probably right place in the pecking order.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

What is clear...for what it is worth.

Dak is the best QB to come out of the 2016 draft class.

goff made it to a superbowl. he didn't play great in it. but he played and took his team there.

 

[blumayne38]

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

In both post season games, he played well enough to win those games. I never claimed he was perfect, but if we're being fair the defense collapsed in both games. I also think it's disingenuous to suggest he didn't do anything to elevate the team. He scored TDs in both games. That's doing something to elevate the team.

well, lets take that with a grain of salt. the rams focused on stopping Zeke and forcing Dak to win the game. he couldn't. passing game wasn't good enough to carry the day.

 

[blumayne38]

This thread has been locked

 

[ItzKelz]

won a super bowl in season 2, (again in season 4) so I think Tom Brady was Tom Brady before 3 seasons.

Even in those wins Tom was no were near the QB he became.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

How does a guy with “no talent” finish 6th in passer rating since we traded for Amari Cooper? That doesn’t even take his rushing TDs into account.

How does a guy with “no talent” go 32-16 as a starter over 3 years without a ton of help?

You don’t know football, child. It’s that simple.

“DURRR HE CAN’T THROW DA BALL!! ONLY 66% COMPLETIONS, 65 TD, 27 INT AND A 96 CAREER PASSER RATING!! DURRR DAT’S TERRIBLE!”

Your buddy Wentz, on the other hand, has 2 losing seasons in 3 years.

Wentz is such a LOSER, in fact, that he went 5-6 (0-2 vs Dak) before his backup came in to clean up his mess, reach the playoffs and even win a playoff game.

THEN a report came out with quotes from anonymous teammates who said Wentz isn’t a good leader and that he’s selfish. LOL!

Egg ALL OVER your face.

thank you Zeke for all you do....that's how....10-1 when Zeke does well. 1-6 when zeke struggles. doesn't matter how many yards Dak threw in the game in losses or wins.

 

[G2]

well, lets take that with a grain of salt. the rams focused on stopping Zeke and forcing Dak to win the game. he couldn't. passing game wasn't good enough to carry the day.

Unfortunately, that's how football works. One position shouldn't carry the rest. L.A. showed us that in the Superbowl. Everyone who is high on Goff, what's his excuse?

And, we've been over this, the defense collapsed.

 

[CWR]

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Dak is what he is.
Thats not going to stop me from finding his replacement. Especially if I'm in position to draft a Qb if this team craps the bed this season.

I agree with you. Right now Dak is the best QB available to us, but if it becomes possible to draft someone better, the team should do that.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I like the confidence you are showing. I think the years of training and effort I have put into you are starting to payoff. your arguments used to be on the stupid side, but now are more logical, so its good you are putting some thought into your posts. glad to see the improvement. again, I am very proud of you. it makes me very happy to see your progress.

his footwork are only part of his inaccuracy issues, there are two parts to being accurate, one, seeing in his mind's-eye where he needs to throw the ball. Aikman, Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Rivers, Brees and few others had/have the uncanny ability to see that as the play develops. The second part of it is to be able to successfully put the ball there where it needs to be. I think the footwork will improve his throwing, but he needs to continue to work on the first one. perhaps, and that remains to be seen, if he trusts himself more, he may improve there as well. There quite a few QBs who have the second part down, but not the first, such as cousins. he doesn't often know where he needs to put the ball.

we hope pocket presence comes from repetition, but this year showed he has a long way to go. too many sacks were his fault. how much can he correct? not sure. he may or may not.

low Int's are not necessarily from reading defenses. he is gun shy and goes for safe throws or take the ball down and run with it or worse take a sack. he is by his own nature not a risk taker. play it safe. for a young QB who is not expected to carry the team, that's a good thing. don't make mistakes. drive the bus and it leads to a lot of victories. its worked so far.

again, sacks and pocket presence not necessarily go hand in hand. there were quite a few plays, where he just didn't throw the ball, waiting too long to let the WR to get enough separation for him to trust his arm to throw the ball. some of what was recorded as sacks was sheer stupidity, when he ran out of bounce instead of just throw the ball away. a lot of his sacks could have been avoided by just throwing the ball away although the rush was right in front of him. yes, some of his sacks were due to lack of feeling pressure around him, specially from the right side.

again, I have to say, you make me proud. keep up the hard work. it will pay off. you are certainly improving. give yourself a pat on the back.

You'll learn, eventually.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Romo was healthy in his early years as well. Romo was on the bench for a while as well. The league and the lack of o line took a toll on him. We are not talking Brady who is protected by the entire NFL officiating crew. You could sneeze on Brady and that would be roughing the passer. You would have been to run a dump truck over Romo and they would call holding against us. If Brady was playing for us, he would have retired a few years back as well. Now we have better O line so I have some hope for Dak's health. However now the opposing D line just need to breath on him for it to be a sack.

So, it was health. I see.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

I wouldn't make that bet. Prescott hasn't missed a snap. How long does Philly's luck last having a competent back up to finish every season?
History has also shown us that draft position specifically in terms of QBs doesn't guarantee anything.

I'll actually agree with both of your points to some extent. Wentz's health has become a question mark. That is the only thing that might give a team pause in taking him over Dak.

And yes- drafting QB's is tricky, and being a 1st rounder doesn't guarantee anything. That said, there is a reason Dak went late in the fourth round. (might have been in the 5th round or later if not for JJ) That reason still exists. Aikman's comments on this point are spot on.

 

[jrumann59]

Not many "elite" QB not named Brady has won many SBs. It's a myth that you need a "elite" QB to win a SB. In fact, Brady got beat by Foles. Is Foles "elite"?

Eli has more SB wins than Rodger, Wilson and Brees. Same number of SB wins as his brother and Roethlisberger.

Does anyone consider Eli "elite"?

AS maligned as Eli is/was he was good QB in this league a long time. He is not a Peyton, Brees, Rothliesberger but he was better than 75% of the league in his prime.

 

[Whyjerry]

Dallas had a bottom third passing offense, and Dak was the predominant reason why.

So there's that.

Looked pretty good after Cooper got here. Let me ask this - the WR and TE corps to start the season...you think that helped a young QB. You think 58 sacks help? You think Linehan helped? That rookie QB coach? Running the same offense since 2007 help? Enough with the negative.