Dak said it best regarding Austin

[Hoofbite]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...tavon-austin-becomes-a-complete-receiver/amp/

He is not just a gadget player.

I honestly don't believe the rams gave Austin a fair chance to be the complete player he is and I believe they will regret letting him come to Dallas.

I honestly don't believe the staff in Dallas knows how to utilize a player like Austin.

Get ready for weekly threads about why Austin didn't touch the ball more often.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

What would you expect the starting QB of the Cowboys to say about his new WR?

"You know what, I like Austin, but he's probably nothing more than a 4th WR type and gadget type player.............."

He's been in the league for 5 years, never once showing anything that would closely resemble the type of player he was projected to be. He's had two different offensive schemes with the Rams, including the last one which by most accounts is a very good system run by a bright young offensive mind.

At this point, it's show me status for Austin for me. Prove it.

Nothing would make me happier and make this team better than if Austin turned into that Top 10 WR that he was projected to be 5 years ago.

You’re right, of course.

But then, Dak didn’t have to single out Austin and start raving about him in response to that question. The right (and obvious) response was: “You know, it’s hard to pick just one. You saw what Gallop did in the game. Tavon’s been catching everything in sight. Terrence looks like he has a new lease on life. Sanjay’s got them all balling...”. As the QB you take the opportunity to pump up all their tires and avoid really answering.

Dak is savvy enough to know this. The fact he went off script suggests that Tavon really does have him excited.

I’m still in ‘show me’ mode, but this sort of stuff intrigues me enough to at least get me watching more closely.

 

[vaturkey]

Not sure why he couldn't turn into a version of Tyreek Hill for KC. Damn close in size and damn close in speed. No one says Hill is to small to play the wide receiver position.

 

[staubach24]

The lame response is always the "you are a hater". It takes little intellect to use that dumb line as a rebuttal.

It's not hate. It's reality. He's done pretty much nothing in 5 years, certainly never living up to the hype. The odds are that he will never become the player he was envisioned to be when taken in the Top 10. Does it mean he can't? Of course not. Anything is possible. But should one just expect he's now going to turn into a stud because he's now in Dallas? Of course not.

The proper way to view Austin is simply just hope he's a productive player that makes a couple of big plays for us this year. For what we got him for, that's would be a big win. I don't need him to be a superstar WR for us. I just need him to be a good one and productive.

If he turns out to be a surprise and be even better than good, but actually a great WR for us? That would be downright awesome.

I think given the right system, a player can flourish where he couldn't before. What he can't do is change his body size or fragility. I'm holding out hope
but not bettin' the house on it happening

 

[_sturt_]

Will Austin surprise? Who knows. Hopefully we have the recipe that unlocks that potential and gives us a legit big time playmaker at WR. Best case, he's ********* Mike Wallace/Steve Smith/Antonio Brown reincarnated. Worst case, he's an older Desean Jackson, not the best, but still very productive. Let's hope that's the range of his potential here.

All I am saying is that diving into the Austin pool with two feet thinking he's a victim of misuse for 5 years in the NFL is probably a tough argument to make at this point.

I'm one of those who think about Austin not a lot differently than how I've thought about Randy Gregory...

I'm slower to give up on a player than most. So, I never wrote Gregory off in the way that most seemed to do in spite of conventional wisdom.

I'm also slower to say the same player has crossed the threshold where we can say we can pencil him in and have confidence he's turned a corner and destined to fulfill potential.

I like DeSean Jackson as his best ceiling comparable. But I'm not sure that an "older DeSean Jackson" is his floor, because his big problem will be even seeing much of the field if he his Rams' fumbling history follows him here.

 

[gimmesix]

Wrongfully accused.

When has Tavon Austin EVER rivaled ANY of those four you cite in production, and thus, provided some reason to excuse his high fumble proclivity?

Sure, if he came to us with that kind of stat sheet to balance out the history of ball insecurity, you're absolutely right.

But he doesn't, of course.

And he won't get a chance to put up those kinds of numbers in the first place if he doesn't secure the ball better in DAL than he did with the Rams.

That's not the point. The point is that fumbling a couple of times in 100 receptions is not necessarily a big deal. You are stuck on this statistical idea that it's below the curve, but it only really matters if A) the fumbles actually hurt us (which doesn't always happen) and B) his contributions do not help the offense more than his mistakes hurt.

In 2013, Austin had 4 fumbles and lost 1. The next year, he totaled 5 and lost 0. The most he had lost until last year was 2. Last year, he lost 4, so that makes the production not equal the cost (most of the fumbles came on punt returns, though, as he only had 1 in 72 touches on offense).

 

[Reid1boys]

I still have this "can he stay healthy thing in my mind". It's a big mans game man

really? lots of little guys have had great creers as of late.

Welker, Edelman, Sproles to name a few

 

[Sydla]

I think given the right system, a player can flourish where he couldn't before. What he can't do is change his body size or fragility. I'm holding out hope
but not bettin' the house on it happening

Possibly.

But Austin now has been through two different systems and not really found great success, including being in an offensive system last year that went from the worst in the NFL to the best in one season.

I think assuming the Cowboys have the recipe might be wishful thinking, but hopefully, they do. We could desperately use an elitish, playmaking WR on this squad.

 

[Sydla]

I'm one of those who think about Austin not a lot differently than how I've thought about Randy Gregory...

I'm slower to give up on a player than most. So, I never wrote Gregory off in the way that most seemed to do in spite of conventional wisdom.

I'm also slower to say the same player has crossed the threshold where we can say we can pencil him in and have confidence he's turned a corner and destined to fulfill potential.

I like DeSean Jackson as his best ceiling comparable. But I'm not sure that an "older DeSean Jackson" is his floor, because his big problem will be even seeing much of the field if he his Rams' fumbling history follows him here.

I should clarify.

You are absolutely correct his floor is much lower than that. What I was saying is that if this coaching staff does have the recipe to get through to him, his range could be Antonio Brown through Desean Jackson.

But if this staff can't get through to him either, then yeah, he could be the guy we've seen in LA for 5 years.

 

[sbark]

He'd rack up yards in the pats scheme, and should here also along side beasley .....if used accordingly

Already catching comments on staff cutting back hurns route tree....isolated or across the board?

Who can't remember the routes ....wr or other people in the huddle ?

 

[_sturt_]

That's not the point. The point is that fumbling a couple of times in 100 receptions is not necessarily a big deal. You are stuck on this statistical idea that it's below the curve, but it only really matters if A) the fumbles actually hurt us (which doesn't always happen) and B) his contributions do not help the offense more than his mistakes hurt.

You can say that it's not the point... but, oh, it IS ENTIRELY the point.

A player has to be ON THE FIELD in order to get snaps and be an integral part of the offense that we all would hope he can.

But.

A player has to NOT FUMBLE in order to gain the confidence of coaches and GET TO BE ON THE FIELD to any appreciable degree.

He has 3 preseason games to go. Imo, he can fumble once, and it might not make much of a difference. He cannot fumble twice w/o endangering his spot on the 53-man, and unless there's some contract thing that would intervene that I don't know about w/o researching it, his career as a Cowboy will be over before it ever started if he experiences 3 of those, and I don't care if it's after a carry, a reception or a kick/punt return. (For most players, we don't even imagine 3 turnovers in 3 games to be in the realm of possibility. Even for Tavon, it's highly unlikely. But he is one of those players that, indeed, it IS within the realm of possibility.)

And even if he makes the team as we all are wanting if not expecting to see, there will remain a short leash... that is, until he proves during the season EITHER he is comparable in some way to those upper tier WRs you cited (which again is actually going to YOUR point above that players can play well enough to be excused for some shortcoming in one statistical area), OR he has indeed turned the corner and is at least average in terms of ball security.

Summary: I am one of those who is confident that if Austin has ball insecurity problems to the degree here that he did with the Rams, his experience in Dallas will be not all that different than his previous experience with them.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I believe the Chiefs provided the blueprint on how we can use Austin. Look at how they use Tyreek Hill. Hill splits out wide on occasion, takes the bubble screen on occasion, runs the jet sweep.

They are pretty similar in size and speed.

Your asking Garrett/Linehan to be as creative as Andy Reid. Not gonna happen.

 

[ConstantReboot]

My understanding is that Austin was hurt all the way through the first training camp with McVay’s new offense, missing the entire preseason install.

Then McVay, like just about any other coach, pretty much went with the guys who had practiced all PS long in his scheme. Guys who miss all of training camp usually don’t play much, although I’m sure there are examples.

When the offense started running so well... there was no reason to change anything up.

If that’s the case (and I could be wrong about that) then it’s no surprise that Austin kind of became the forgotten man in that system.

Now I agree that Tayvon hasn’t lived up to his draft slot in the NFL, and I’m not saying anything as rash as that he’s going to light it up in Dallas... but to me, saying that McVay couldn’t find a way to use him seems a little disingenuous.

Maybe that McVay didn’t need him is more accurate.

McVay has a better feel for the game than Garrett. He doesn't take out Gurley on those 3rd down situations. He uses Gurley even as a decoy. As for Garrett, he takes out Zeke on 3rd downs and inserts a fresh, average RB into the lineup. The defense doesn't care for that RB because its not Zeke. Thus they focused on stopping the pass.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I’m not the most football savvy guy, but one would think Austin would be a good z receiver. The primary job of a z is running clearing routes, and Austin has the kind of speed defenses must respect.

 

[gimmesix]

You can say that it's not the point... but, oh, it IS ENTIRELY the point.

A player has to be ON THE FIELD in order to get snaps and be an integral part of the offense that we all would hope he can.

But.

A player has to NOT FUMBLE in order to gain the confidence of coaches and GET TO BE ON THE FIELD to any appreciable degree.

He has 3 preseason games to go. Imo, he can fumble once, and it might not make much of a difference. He cannot fumble twice w/o endangering his spot on the 53-man, and unless there's some contract thing that would intervene that I don't know about w/o researching it, his career as a Cowboy will be over before it ever started if he experiences 3 of those, and I don't care if it's after a carry, a reception or a kick/punt return. (For most players, we don't even imagine 3 turnovers in 3 games to be in the realm of possibility. Even for Tavon, it's highly unlikely. But he is one of those players that, indeed, it IS within the realm of possibility.)

And even if he makes the team as we all are wanting if not expecting to see, there will remain a short leash... that is, until he proves during the season EITHER he is comparable in some way to those upper tier WRs you cited (which again is actually going to YOUR point above that players can play well enough to be excused for some shortcoming in one statistical area), OR he has indeed turned the corner and is at least average in terms of ball security.

Summary: I am one of those who is confident that if Austin has ball insecurity problems to the degree here that he did with the Rams, his experience in Dallas will be not all that different than his previous experience with them.

OK, let's try this. Let's say Austin touches the ball (receiving and rushes) an average of six times a game. On his 48th touch (which would be in his eighth game), he fumbles. Do you cut him?

He fumbles again after 24 touches (4 games), do you cut him?

I get that he has a fumbling issue on punt returns, and I want to see him returning punts during the preseason to see if it's going to be a problem. I have no problem taking him off punt returns.

Your standards for receiving and rushing don't make sense, though. If he fumbles twice in his first game or fumbles multiple times over the first few games, then I'm with you. Other than last year, that hasn't been his history.

He really had a bad stretch from the last two games of the 2016 season, where he had three fumbles, and the first five games of 2017, where he also totaled three. If he does that, then yes, you certainly don't rely on him. In 2016, he didn't fumble until the seventh game, when he had two and didn't lose either. (He had had 40 offensive touches coming into that game; I'm not sure how many punts he had fielded.) The only fumble that he lost was in the last game of that season.

As I said, 2017 was worse (and his worst season overall handling the ball, which I'm sure is one reason he was traded). He lost fumbles in the first, third and fifth games. If he does that this year, I'll be leading the march to bench or cut him.

 

[_sturt_]

OK, let's try this. Let's say Austin touches the ball (receiving and rushes) an average of six times a game. On his 48th touch (which would be in his eighth game), he fumbles. Do you cut him?

He fumbles again after 24 touches (4 games), do you cut him?

For now, I'm just talking about him making the 53-man and sticking with it through the first 4 games until we think maybe we'll need to free-up a roster slot going into Week 5.

Answering your question straight-up, though, I do not cut him for two fumbles in 12 games.

But addressing the larger question, and even embracing once again some of what you yourself have already said would be your own attitude... if that fumble in Week 8 was consequential in any way, I would not be surprised to see some reduction in touches... and for certain would expect to see that after the hypothetical 12th game fumble, again, depending to some degree on the consequential-ness of the fumble. I agree that that part matters, just as it has to be taken into account how well he's performing. If at a DeSean Jackson level, he gets some latitude. If at his previous LA Rams level, not so much.

 

[AsthmaField]

McVay has a better feel for the game than Garrett. He doesn't take out Gurley on those 3rd down situations. He uses Gurley even as a decoy. As for Garrett, he takes out Zeke on 3rd downs and inserts a fresh, average RB into the lineup. The defense doesn't care for that RB because its not Zeke. Thus they focused on stopping the pass.

Okay... but that’s not what I was saying.