Dak since his return

[Slick]

Cool yeah that was never my point that he’s elite. My thing is non-elite QB’s get paid elite money because of the nature of the position. Just like the QB’s I mentioned in my previous post.

Expecting only elite Qb’s to be paid top dollar is like expecting only top 5 NBA players to get max contracts. Once you’re deemed a top 14 guy, you’re getting paid top of the market. It’s simple supply and demand.

The market is the market my man. Guys like Dak will continue to be paid like this unless there’s a sudden flood of elite qb’s, which there won’t ever be. It’s just a reality fans need to get used to. Seems like the board finally understands too lol, this hasn’t been a topic in a minute.

or owners and fans come to reality and understand this is a salary cap era, contracts matter, and have future implications.

Jerry and his son, have proven to think it's monopoly money, but they haven't improved the team, they have only cobbled it, and in the future.

Revenue wise, they don't care, but sporting wise..... They are lost.

 

[plymkr]

Dak was a hard read last year. Looked like an MVP candidate the first half of the season then after the leg injury I think he lost some of the athleticism that helps him extend plays and he wasn’t as effective.

So far so good this, hoping he can stay healthy and get hot end of season.

I said this in another thread but one thing about last season is Dak was injured, so was Zeke but everyone forgets about Pollard. Pollard tore his fascia in a long run late last season and never returned to form. He played but he wasn't as explosive. With Zeke and Pollard limping into December and playoffs that really hurt the offense. Dak is far more effective with a healthy Zeke and Pollard. We could survive losing one but not having both injured. Those 2 being about 50% really hurt us late in the season and against the 49ers.

 

[817Gill]

or owners and fans come to reality and understand this is a salary cap era, contracts matter, and have future implications.

Jerry and his son, have proven to think it's monopoly money, but they haven't improved the team, they have only cobbled it, and in the future.

Revenue wise, they don't care, but sporting wise..... They are lost.

Ok, so all the owners are stupid and shouldn’t do it, nice. Write them a letter lol let them know how you feel.

This isn’t a Jerry thing bro everyone in the top 14 gets paid. That means take out the 4/5 elite guys there are still 9/10 non elite dudes that get paid the big bucks. SUPPLY and DEMAND.

You’re operating in a world of what should be, not what is. Shake your fist at the sky all you want, just know anyone who’s a top 14 is getting a top tier deal. It’s just how the market works. If you don’t get the QB market just say it, it’s no big deal. Like it’s not an opinion lol all top 14 QB’s get big extensions. Like literally every single one.

Sure there should be a middle class of contracts but there isn’t and won’t be. So keep shaking that fist bud, I’m sure the leagues owners will listen and the market will change.

 

[Whirlwin]

Typical response from a cheerleader because it's all your capable of. (Other than lying and claiming I said things I never said and running away when called out to prove it)

Doesn't change the fact that Dak Prescott isn't a franchise QB. None of your sophomoric, juvenile babble ever will.

Bathe in it.

~pointing to sky~

Go back to the five points. LMAO maybe you can make one that makes sense. You make a comment about someone who’s not even there to protect themselves. I call you out on it. And you lie. So not only are you a hypocrite but also a fraud. And I have enough integrity. so keep babbling. It means nothing to me. I was only sticking up for Rocky. Or I would not have even responded.

 

[cnuball21]

The topic was since his return, swung to comparing him to elite QB's , and I merely pointed out that he's a known quantity given his experience in the NFL.

He's pretty much Zeke in a different position. A money suck to this team.

That seems like an extreme exaggeration. Zeke is essentially league average at this point, and Dak is well above that this season.

Even if you use the “known quantity” as you referenced you can go back to last year where he was top 10 in just about every stat out there despite playing through a leg injury the 2nd half of the year that robbed his mobility.

 

[cnuball21]

I said this in another thread but one thing about last season is Dak was injured, so was Zeke but everyone forgets about Pollard. Pollard tore his fascia in a long run late last season and never returned to form. He played but he wasn't as explosive. With Zeke and Pollard limping into December and playoffs that really hurt the offense. Dak is far more effective with a healthy Zeke and Pollard. We could survive losing one but not having both injured. Those 2 being about 50% really hurt us late in the season and against the 49ers.

Yea it certainly didn’t help we weren’t fully healthy. The OL also played one of their worst games of the year when we needed them the most in the playoffs which didn’t help.

 

[RonnieT24]

Trust me, you can go back and look, I was criticized for saying he wasn't worth before he was signed.


If I was Jerry, besides counting my cash, I'd have hired a real GM, Head coach, staff, and spent more wisely, to add to the 5 SB trophies in my display case.

I majored in Economics in college. One of the cornerstone tenets of Economics is "Fair Market Value." Fair Market Value is built upon the concept that a thing is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. By definition, every playing in the NFL is worth whatever they are getting paid. Because they are getting paid it. Your assessment of what a player is worth will matter when you buy a team and start paying them. Until then, you can only speak for yourself. And like it or not, your voice doesn't matter. You're mad about Dak's contract.. that's your prerogative. I don't waste any emotional energy on another man's paycheck.

 

[RonnieT24]

Yea it certainly didn’t help we weren’t fully healthy. The OL also played one of their worst games of the year when we needed them the most in the playoffs which didn’t help.

In the aftermath of the meltdown against the 49ers it has often been completely dismissed that Tyron was gimpy heading into the playoffs and frankly Collins never made it to top form all season coming off his hip issues. I really hope they have a plan for how to avoid a repeat of that this year.

 

[cnuball21]

In the aftermath of the meltdown against the 49ers it has often been completely dismissed that Tyron was gimpy heading into the playoffs and frankly Collins never made it to top form all season coming off his hip issues. I really hope they have a plan for how to avoid a repeat of that this year.

Tyron gave up 7 pressures in that game after giving up 11 all season. Over half his season total in 1 game and Martin didn’t play up to par either.

But I’m sure this is “excuses for Dak” by some folks.

 

[Scotman]

When your run game, OL and defense are dominant the league is littered with QBs who can do what he did.

If they can all keep that level of play then they can win a title with Dak Prescott. If at any point they can't and more of the burden falls on the QB they can not win. It's that simple because he's a fraud.

I think you're wrong. But I'm not so sure that you're wrong that I'd be willing stake anything on it. Dak didn't prove you wrong in the playoffs last year. His career is at least half over and he hasn't proven you wrong yet. I see some of the things I need to see from him that make me believe that he could be the guy to pull everyone together when needed. I think the potential is there. So far, it's just potential. Come playoff time, Dak needs to be the guy.

I was adamant before the contract that it was a mistake on Dak's part. I think it was a mistake on the Jones, too. He hasn't changed for me.

I see more in him that you do, obviously. So far, Dak is creating a body of evidence that doesn't help my argument.

 

[McKDaddy]

All QBs have inconsistency. The stats provided indicate he’s inconsistent far less than a majority of his peers.

Agree with the first statement. No one plays perfectly. The second statement I am of the exact opposite belief. Compare him to other veteran QB's who have earned second contracts and I think you find he is significantly more inconsistent. Prone to poor decision making and off target throws. The bigger the moment, the more likely a failure. It is actually the root of why he is viewed as an averageish QB who can perform better at times but can also have well below average stretches.

 

[cnuball21]

Agree with the first statement. No one plays perfectly. The second statement I am of the exact opposite belief. Compare him to other veteran QB's who have earned second contracts and I think you find he is significantly more inconsistent. Prone to poor decision making and off target throws. The bigger the moment, the more likely a failure. It is actually the root of why he is viewed as an averageish QB who can perform better at times but can also have well below average stretches.

Ok, so who are we comparing him to? I’ll play along.

 

[Joe Realist]

When your run game, OL and defense are dominant the league is littered with QBs who can do what he did.

If they can all keep that level of play then they can win a title with Dak Prescott. If at any point they can't and more of the burden falls on the QB they can not win. It's that simple because he's a fraud.

Rush 4-1
Dak 3-2

 

[McKDaddy]

Ok, so who are we comparing him to? I’ll play along.

Veterans. Contemporaries. I mean you could also compare him against some of the better young QB's but it's not going to support that he is more consistent.

Bottom line, if everyone simply ask's themselves a few questions it should clarify the consistency issue.
1) If he is far more consistent than his peers, why is it a weekly debate not only on this forum but across the NFL?
2) If he is so consistent, why have we had such trouble winning games against better competition? QB is supposed to be the position that lifts all ships when you have the advantage right?
3) What is consistency for an NFL QB? He has to make good decisions with his decisions to run or pass. What defense they are facing. Post snap he has to read coverage & progress through. A lot of those are not easy to quantify so for ease of discussion let's talk about passing plays. If you throw it 30 times, a 10% bad throw rate would be 3. Your top QB's are going to be under 10% in most games. Your averagish QB's are going to be more in the 10-15% (maybe even 20%). Even as well as the Minny game went and Dak did play well overall, he still had at least 10% that weren't great throws, right? Not simply talking completions \ incompletions but the quality of the throws. This was one of his best games so we should all agree his normal inconsistency rate is in that averagish range.

The Green Bay game is a perfect example of how the discussion is often flawed. Group of fans said Dak played well and had no hand in the loss pointing to the 28 pts scored. Another way of saying that is, IF you ignore the 1st Qtr, 4th Qtr & Overtime, then yes Dak played well. IF you don't ignore those, you see opportunities missed that could have easily sealed the game. Inconsistency.

 

[Rockport]

Rush 4-1
Dak 3-2

Joe Ignorant

 

[cnuball21]

Veterans. Contemporaries. I mean you could also compare him against some of the better young QB's but it's not going to support that he is more consistent.

Bottom line, if everyone simply ask's themselves a few questions it should clarify the consistency issue.
1) If he is far more consistent than his peers, why is it a weekly debate not only on this forum but across the NFL?
2) If he is so consistent, why have we had such trouble winning games against better competition? QB is supposed to be the position that lifts all ships when you have the advantage right?
3) What is consistency for an NFL QB? He has to make good decisions with his decisions to run or pass. What defense they are facing. Post snap he has to read coverage & progress through. A lot of those are not easy to quantify so for ease of discussion let's talk about passing plays. If you throw it 30 times, a 10% bad throw rate would be 3. Your top QB's are going to be under 10% in most games. Your averagish QB's are going to be more in the 10-15% (maybe even 20%). Even as well as the Minny game went and Dak did play well overall, he still had at least 10% that weren't great throws, right? Not simply talking completions \ incompletions but the quality of the throws. This was one of his best games so we should all agree his normal inconsistency rate is in that averagish range.

The Green Bay game is a perfect example of how the discussion is often flawed. Group of fans said Dak played well and had no hand in the loss pointing to the 28 pts scored. Another way of saying that is, IF you ignore the 1st Qtr, 4th Qtr & Overtime, then yes Dak played well. IF you don't ignore those, you see opportunities missed that could have easily sealed the game. Inconsistency.

OK sure, let's do it.

Among active QBs:

- Since 2016 Dak is 11th among all active QBs in EPA / Play (Watson (suspension) and Tua (sample size) are included which hurt his rankings but will leave them in)
- 6th highest career QBR among active players
- 6th highest TD/INT ratio among active players
- 10th best winning percentage against teams with winning record (about the same as ARod and Allen)

1. B/C most NFL fans overreact every Sunday. I went to the Bills board for giggles after an L recently and there 6 threads indicating there was a "QB Problem" with Allen.
2. We don't - it's completely normal for above average QBs to have a sub 500 winning percentage against teams with a winning record. See last bullet.
3. I'd argue being in the top 10 ish in a majority of stats that evaluate QBs is a fairly good indicator.

The GB game is a great example of why it is a team sport and the "QB elevates" is a myth. A majority of NFL analysts put both INTs on the WR and half the boards solely blamed Dak for the loss. Even if you want to put the INTs solely on Dak, which is crazy to me, the defense allowed 200+ yards rushing and Rodgers to have the best game of the season. It doesn't matter when you score the points - all that matters is you have more than the other team. Our defense gave up 10+ points then there season average.

 

[McKDaddy]

OK sure, let's do it.

Among active QBs:

- Since 2016 Dak is 11th among all active QBs in EPA / Play (Watson (suspension) and Tua (sample size) are included which hurt his rankings but will leave them in)
- 6th highest career QBR among active players
- 6th highest TD/INT ratio among active players
- 10th best winning percentage against teams with winning record (about the same as ARod and Allen)

1. B/C most NFL fans overreact every Sunday. I went to the Bills board for giggles after an L recently and there 6 threads indicating there was a "QB Problem" with Allen.
2. We don't - it's completely normal for above average QBs to have a sub 500 winning percentage against teams with a winning record. See last bullet.
3. I'd argue being in the top 10 ish in a majority of stats that evaluate QBs is a fairly good indicator.

The GB game is a great example of why it is a team sport and the "QB elevates" is a myth. A majority of NFL analysts put both INTs on the WR and half the boards solely blamed Dak for the loss. Even if you want to put the INTs solely on Dak, which is crazy to me, the defense allowed 200+ yards rushing and Rodgers to have the best game of the season. It doesn't matter when you score the points - all that matters is you have more than the other team. Our defense gave up 10+ points then there season average.

How does any of this directly relate to whether Dak is a consistent QB? We've all seen the metrics & discussed what they mean or don't mean. We aren't talking what the team did, only how did Dak perform. So the GB game is a perfect example. He played well for literally less than half the game. Anyone who dismisses that he played poorly for 2 quarters plus OT isn't really being honest. (Not saying that toward you, just a general statement). For 7 years we've seen this cycle of up and down play (often directly related to level of competition and\or adversity). I don't see how it can be called anything other than inconsistency.

 

[cnuball21]

How does any of this directly relate to whether Dak is a consistent QB? We've all seen the metrics & discussed what they mean or don't mean. We aren't talking what the team did, only how did Dak perform. So the GB game is a perfect example. He played well for literally less than half the game. Anyone who dismisses that he played poorly for 2 quarters plus OT isn't really being honest. (Not saying that toward you, just a general statement). For 7 years we've seen this cycle of up and down play (often directly related to level of competition and\or adversity). I don't see how it can be called anything other than inconsistency.

Because in order to be near the top of these lists you have to be consistent. The less consistent - the further down the list you go. They are QB centric stats and metrics.

Stats are all about consistency...it's like the whole point.

 

[McKDaddy]

Because in order to be near the top of these lists you have to be consistent. The less consistent - the further down the list you go. They are QB centric stats and metrics.

Stats are all about consistency...it's like the whole point.

Nah, gotta disagree. Did you ask yourself any of the questions? You are consistent when you have an off game & no one worries about it. You are inconsistent when the feelings about how you played swing wildly on a weekly basis.

 

[cnuball21]

Nah, gotta disagree. Did you ask yourself any of the questions? You are consistent when you have an off game & no one worries about it. You are inconsistent when the feelings about how you played swing wildly on a weekly basis.

Facts over feelings. I can’t control the feelings of a bunch of fans on here that overreact to every player after every game. That’s irrational - and an absolutely terrible way to evaluate a player based on the amount of data and stats out there show that he’s consistent compared to his peers.

You can essentially pick any player not named Mahomes and I reference up and down games every year. I think we just have a lot of fans that have the “grass is greener” syndrome.

I hate it when we lose - but I also take the emotion out of it when evaluating players.