Dak vs. Romo The Money Stats

[DCBoysfan]

It’s been 10 years. At some point folks need to say their final goodbyes.

 

[DallasEast]

Romo didn't do it.
No matter about feels, Romo won 1 playoff game win in his NFL career.
Dak has 2.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I would appreciate your explanation as to what made those players great.

To me, it was obvious talent that made the 90's team great in addition to a disciplined and focused environment with clearly defined center of authority.

As to the 70's team, I never felt as though they were any more talented than many other teams. They just excelled in working as a team with superior coaching, preparation and team leadership.

The defense and offense was structured in a way that superior talent wasn't the key, it was knowing what you had to do in certain situations depending on what you saw from the opponents offense.

I'm going to tell everyone a little story just to get my point across (and because i just love typing so much). it also reveals a little of Tom Landry's dark side.

When Tex Schram traded for a few Packer veterans, Tom Landry resented it. It was as if Tex was saying that Landry couldn't win without some of Lombardi's guys.

One of the guys was HOFer CB Herb Adderley.

Adderley was a very athletic, talented player that relied on his athleticism to make extraordinary plays.

One practice, he read the quarterback's eyes and ran to the side where he threw the ball. Adderley intercepted the ball. Landry immediately chewed him out. Landry told him that he doesn't run to an area covered by another defender, it was his task to cover the guy he was on.

Adderley reminded him that he made an interception but Landry said he didn't care, stay with his guy.

You see, Landry knew Adderley was extremely talented but he also knew that the younger backups didn't have the same talent level. However, once they saw Adderley make his play, they might attempt to do the same and they would fail. They would be okay so long as they followed Landry's system.

However, Adderley continued to make athletic plays outside of his zone so Landry benched him.

This was the 1972 season and the Cowboys were playing Washington in the NFC championship game. Towards the end of the first half with Washington leading 10-3, starting CB Charlie Waters went down with an injury. Herb Adderley put on his helmet and was about to go out there when Landry informed him what he was to stay on the bench.

Landry sent out Mark Washington, a 2nd year, 13th round draft pick. The Cowboys lost 26-3 and almost every Washington scoring drive involved a reception thrown in Mark Washington's direction. Herb Adderley retired after the season.

There are a lot of talented players throughout NFL history. However, it is success that history remembers the most. For Landry's Cowboys, success was measured by the players ability to work as a team. I believe that is still true today.

Sounds like you are saying a player's talent is what made Coach Landry look good or bad, not the other way around with it being Coach Landry and his coaches' abilities to coach up their players?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[America's Cowboy]

The irony of the Dak vs Romo debate is it is very difficult to find two more similar NFL quarterbacks in stats and accomplishments.
Dak has slightly better numbers but if era adjusted, they are essentially a dead heat.

Moving on form Romo was the right call.

And if they had a young Dak moving on from older Dak would also be the right move.

But the other 20+ guys that have been through here in that time it would not have been wise to move on from Romo or now Dak.
So they would have had to move on and essentially be without a QB for a year to tank out top 3 and draft one.
The challenge there is you better pick your year correct because about half the time there isn't a true pick worthy QB.
The other challenge is you are going to pay serious freight for anyone QB taken 1 overall. That rookie contract won't be "cheap" and the subsequent ones will be at franchise rates.
Uncovering Romo as an UFDA and Dak as a R4 guy was special work. They need to try to do that again obviously!
Thus, the shot at Joe Milton who has elite physical tools but needs major refinement.

This! ^^^^

 

[plasticman]

Sounds like you are saying a player's talent is what made Coach Landry look good or bad, not the other way around with it being Coach Landry and his coaches' abilities to coach up their players?

Is that what you are saying?

Actually the opposite in most cases.

The Cowboys did have some genuine talent, of course. they had two Heisman Trophy winners in their offensive backfield for a while. They had the Olympic world record holder in the 100 yard dash. They had two D-lineman drafted #1 or #2 overall.

However, they also had players that worked extremely hard to perform flawlessly under Tom Landry's system and they were recognized as Pro Bowlers and All-Pros as a result.
I don't think any team at that time could claim as many successful undrafted free agents and low draft picks.

Undrafted players like Cornell Green , Cliff Harris, Drew Pearson and Don Perkins were perennial pro Bowlers. HOFers Bob Hayes and Rayfield Wright were drafted in the 7th rounds. Valuable longtime contributors like Jethro Push and Larry Cole were drafted in double digit rounds.

One of the things that Tom Landry really doesn't get enough credit for was that he was a great teacher. He taught the players and he taught his assistant coaches how to teach players. Championship coaches like Mike Ditka, Dan Reeves and Gene Stalling owe a lot to Tom Landry

Another great Tom Landry trademark was that his players were always prepared. Tom Landry invented the coaching position of Quality Control whose job it weas to gather information on upcoming opponents. They always knew what to expect and they always knew what their particular assignments were.

Really, my entire point was that you don't really have to get the best players to win if you have high quality management and coaching.

Coach Bum Phillips, Wade's father, once described a great coach as one who could "take his guys and beat yours and then turn right around, take yours and beat his."

That was the kind of coach Tom Landry was.

 

[Rock423]

Roger Staubach, Hall of Famer, four -time NFL season passing leader, Super Bowl MVP....earned an average of $160,000 a year.

Different times. And no huge tv contracts.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Actually the opposite in most cases.

The Cowboys did have some genuine talent, of course. they had two Heisman Trophy winners in their offensive backfield for a while. They had the Olympic world record holder in the 100 yard dash. They had two D-lineman drafted #1 or #2 overall.

However, they also had players that worked extremely hard to perform flawlessly under Tom Landry's system and they were recognized as Pro Bowlers and All-Pros as a result.
I don't think any team at that time could claim as many successful undrafted free agents and low draft picks.

Undrafted players like Cornell Green , Cliff Harris, Drew Pearson and Don Perkins were perennial pro Bowlers. HOFers Bob Hayes and Rayfield Wright were drafted in the 7th rounds. Valuable longtime contributors like Jethro Push and Larry Cole were drafted in double digit rounds.

One of the things that Tom Landry really doesn't get enough credit for was that he was a great teacher. He taught the players and he taught his assistant coaches how to teach players. Championship coaches like Mike Ditka, Dan Reeves and Gene Stalling owe a lot to Tom Landry

Another great Tom Landry trademark was that his players were always prepared. Tom Landry invented the coaching position of Quality Control whose job it weas to gather information on upcoming opponents. They always knew what to expect and they always knew what their particular assignments were.

Really, my entire point was that you don't really have to get the best players to win if you have high quality management and coaching.

Coach Bum Phillips, Wade's father, once described a great coach as one who could "take his guys and beat yours and then turn right around, take yours and beat his."

That was the kind of coach Tom Landry was.

Huh??? That is not what you've been saying.

I said coaching matters most.

You said talent matters most.

Stop trying to twist what we both actually said.

 

[plasticman]

Different times. And no huge tv contracts.

I know. Some players had part-time summer jobs.

The Cowboys first Hall of Famer, Bob Lilly, shared an apartment with two other players.

This was back during the times when teams were created by successful businessmen as a way to promote their businesses and give something back to the communities that patronized their companies.

The goal of the team's owners were championships that promoted community pride. Seemingly, the goal of some owners today is to squeeze every penny out of established fan bases by creating exclusivity with marketing tactics that maximize profit.

This is the contribution to the game of football that earned Jerry Jones a place in the Hall if Fame.

 

[plasticman]

Huh??? That is not what you've been saying.

I said coaching matters most.

You said talent matters most.

Stop trying to twist what we both actually said.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

You claimed that the earlier quarterbacks had the benefit of better teams.

My immediate response was, "Where they"?

I pointed out that they drafted low every year for 20 years as a result of their success. Therefore my point was how could it be possible for them to have better talent when they drafted at the bottom of every round for two decades.

I used this point to conclude what I have always believed. The Cowboys management and coaching back then was light years in superiority to the present abomination.

The Cowboys had their chances in recent years. There were times when the teams today were just as talented as the past. They were opportunities that were just as legitimate as the teams of the 70's and 90's. I pointed out the times when the older teams succeeded with less than some recent ones.

The Cowboys of the 21st century just haven't been able to get it done and they have failed in a very consistent manner.

The most revealing dynamic as far as the Cowboys are concerned is the deep and most conspicuous line that divides the history of this team almost in half in the same manner as day and night.

The Dallas Cowboys have officially had only two GM's in their 65 year history

 

[GINeric]

Some stats are flawed. Records against winning teams is not solely a QB stat. A QB could have top 5 defenses and have a better record than a QB whose teams had average to bad defenses and the latter can be a much better QB than the former.

Im confused. Around here, I was told that quarterbacks are solely responsible and held accountable for losing to good teams.

Well only Cowboys quarterbacks. So is it a team win and loss vs teams above .500 or is it quarterback win and loss vs teams above .500??

Lets go ahead and establish which one it's going to be right now before the season starts, because I'm tired of reading excuses for other quarterbacks having losing records vs teams above .500.

 

[soopastar4]

Loser fanbase talk about loser things.

seems like you need a new team.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

seems like you need a new team.

Seems like you need to expect better from your team instead of debating about loser QBs.

 

[5Stars]

Seems like you need to expect better from your team instead of debating about loser QBs.

I hope you are not talking about Dak being a loser QB. Dude, he made Brady, the GOAT retire and divorce his wife Dak spanked him so bad.

Plus, did you know Dak got 2nd place in something? I mean, look around the league, you will not find a QB in better shape than Dak, he even says so himself.

 

[GINeric]

Yes sir, I read his story on and off the field. He is definitely an honorable man who is a also a brilliant businessman. A definite breath of fresh air compared to the childish baby mama making machines whom people celebrate on the Cowboys nowadays.

Jerry Jones was a baby making machine who abandoned his daughter and there's no telling how many other baby mamas he has around the globe.

Yet he's celebrated. I wonder why....

 

[GINeric]

This would matter if both QBs played with the exact same teams. They didn't. Romo actually could come back in games where our team struggled from the start, Dak panics. When things go south with Dak, it gets worse. There's no comeback.

I find it amazing what people can do with stats to paint an entirely different picture than what we actually saw on the field. Good job. You've proven why statistics are one of the three greatest lies.

If statistics are one of the greatest lies, why do they use them to create drafting positions for players, why do they use them to determine where players, offenses, defenses, and special teams are ranked and why do they use them to select Pro Bowl players?


Oh wait, there's more....

If statistics are the greatest lies, why do coaches use them to create depth charts, why do agents and GMs use them in negotiating contracts and MOST of all..... why do they use them to induct players and coaches into the Pro Football Hall of Fame?

Which one of those statistical methods used are the greatest lies?

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Some stats are flawed. Records against winning teams is not solely a QB stat. A QB could have top 5 defenses and have a better record than a QB whose teams had average to bad defenses and the latter can be a much better QB than the former.

Dak’s stats are better than Aikman’s in many cases. Would you take Dak over Aikman?

 

[Flamma]

If statistics are one of the greatest lies, why do they use them to create drafting positions for players, why do they use them to determine where players, offenses, defenses, and special teams are ranked and why do they use them to select Pro Bowl players?

You first have to understand why it's called what it is. If you don't, I can see where the confusion can set it. Stats are very helpful. The lie part is mainly focused on the user applying the statistics. In some cases statistics can be used to paint a picture that is not reality, yet has statistics to back them up. This usually includes, but not limited to, cherry picking. For example. There were statistics floating around a year or two ago showing virtually identical stats from Dak and Mahomes. Almost the same numbers. They are most definitely not the same QB.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Im confused. Around here, I was told that quarterbacks are solely responsible and held accountable for losing to good teams.

Who told ya that?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

You first have to understand why it's called what it is. If you don't, I can see where the confusion can set it. Stats are very helpful. The lie part is mainly focused on the user applying the statistics. In some cases statistics can be used to paint a picture that is not reality, yet has statistics to back them up. This usually includes, but not limited to, cherry picking. For example. There were statistics floating around a year or two ago showing virtually identical stats from Dak and Mahomes. Almost the same numbers. They are most definitely not the same QB.

Very kind of you to patiently explain what everyone inherently knows.

 

[GINeric]

Who told ya that?

Every post that says our quarterback can't beat winning teams while his record vs winning teams says different.

It's plenty of them out there. I'm sure you've seen them.