Dak vs Wentz

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well having the talent is one part of the equation. Can't really do anything if you don't use that talent and direct it in some meaningful way.

yes, garrett and linehan were obvious handicaps for us...but shhh, nobody wants to talk about that in this thread or any comparison argument of Dak.

I had asked several times, how many superbowl rings would brady have with Garrett as head coach....99% didn't answer. avoided it like the plague

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

2019 was based on 16 games and so far in 2021 the season is only 7 games long with 10 to go so perhaps see how things turn out.

so you have hope that Dak will mess up and so you can come here with finger pointing.....an optimist as usual.

 

[G2]

2019 was based on 16 games and so far in 2021 the season is only 7 games long with 10 to go so perhaps see how things turn out.

That's why I averaged it according to games he's played.

 

[JoeKing]

Wentz has not digressed in talent, he just never was all that.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Prescott is playing exceptionally well this season and it's great to see.

But Wentz is playing well for the Colts, especially considering he had to contend with a banged up o line to start the season until the last game or two and his WR1 has only played one game. If he was playing in line with how he did at the Eagles last season where he had an awful offense around him including a banged up line (16 TD to 15 INT) then I would be hey, fair play, Wentz is dreadful. But he has 11 TDS to 1 INT and objectively speaking, he's playing well.

So I don't understand the comparison or the need to compare quarterbacks in different situations.

Is it different situations though? Hasn't Dak's offensive line been hurt? I know Martin and Collins have missed games or game this season. And Hilton is not his WR1. Pittman is the real deal.

But to your point about Wentz.....I Think what looks bad for Wentz is that he struggles but then his backup comes in looking as good or better than him. Hurts as a rookie looked better than Wentz did last year. Foles did it TWICE and the team responded. Like USARMY said, I think its mental with him personally. Cutler could make all the throws too.

not to mention his college teams won two titles with him on the shelf as well lol

Actually didn't know that lol.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

As bad as I think Wentz is...I'll say this...Eagles screwed it royally with him. They should've never drafted Hurts. Should've used that 2nd round pick to trade up and get Lamb or drafted Justin Jefferson when they had the chance.....then this mess never happens.

 

[G2]

As bad as I think Wentz is...I'll say this...Eagles screwed it royally with him. They should've never drafted Hurts. Should've used that 2nd round pick to trade up and get Lamb or drafted Justin Jefferson when they had the chance.....then this mess never happens.

I would have done something about the 50 sacks on him.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I would have done something about the 50 sacks on him.

Yeah and I remember watching a lot of their games a lot of those sacks was on Wentz holding the ball too long trying to make the big play. But yeah this offseason should've been about putting pieces around Wentz. Last season too. To have the arrogance and say "I'm going backup QB because we are a QB factory" like Roseman did.....I'm shocked he's still employed.

 

[G2]

Yeah and I remember watching a lot of their games a lot of those sacks was on Wentz holding the ball too long trying to make the big play. But yeah this offseason should've been about putting pieces around Wentz. Last season too. To have the arrogance and say "I'm going backup QB because we are a QB factory" like Roseman did.....I'm shocked he's still employed.

Very true. That's why I'm not worried like some are who think Philthy will rebuild in the next draft.

 

[thunderpimp91]

So with this argument…there may be some truth to it but my issue with it is we just don’t have proof to know what Dak would’ve did with a worst supporting cast.

One thing we know is that we know in hindsight his supporting cast won 4 games the year prior and most of that was done with Romo. All the losses came from Cassell and the backups. But if I’m to believe those teams were so stacked they would’ve won more than the one game they did without Romo.

Dak at Mississippi St didn’t have much. Never has. He’s had the ability to overcompensate for a poor supporting cast. Has that translated to the NFL? I think so.

I think your argument is sound. I think Wilson, Rothlisberger, Brady, Mahomes, Goff etc. all benefited from superior supporting casts and coaches. So it happens. I just have a hard time saying Dak’s team was stacked when Terrence Williams and Cole Beasley are his 2nd and 3rd best receivers and Garrett being head coach.

Most of this I cant really argue. We have absolutely zero evidence that Daks situation would change the player he is today, its 100% hypothetical.

The year prior to Dak coming on I get they wont four games, but that team had very high expectations prior to the Romo injury. I have 0 doubt that a rookie Dak was far superior to Cassell, Moore, and whoever ended up getting starts that year. It was a disaster of a season, but take away Rodgers from GB, Lamar from Baltimore, etc and these teams miss the playoffs as well.

Overall though I think the benefit is that this team wasn't a complete train wreck. For the argument of the Wentz/Dak debate I will concede that Wentz wasn't exactly in a bad spot either. Multiple pro bowl players on the O line, a dynamic TE, and a pretty strong defense. Receivers/RB were meh, but similar to what Dak was working with aside from Zeke. If we are going strictly on Dak vs Wentz, which I think is completely silly to do at this point I'm 100% on your side. I'm just looking bigger picture league wide as basically I think the Dak/Wentz comparison is laughable at this point.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Correct this argument CAN work with some teams...its DOES NOT WORK for Wentz who was drafted by a team that won a SB without him playing in it....it actually is an argument that makes Wentz look worse.

Yeah i'm over the Dak/Wentz debates. At this point those hanging on to any hope that Wentz surpasses Dak is in some serious denial. I'm looking at it more league wide. As mentioned Dak could have a super bowl by now had he gone to a better team, but also may be a backup somewhere if he drew the short straw and ended up with the Browns/jets/etc.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Yeah i'm over the Dak/Wentz debates. At this point those hanging on to any hope that Wentz surpasses Dak is in some serious denial. I'm looking at it more league wide. As mentioned Dak could have a super bowl by now had he gone to a better team, but also may be a backup somewhere if he drew the short straw and ended up with the Browns/jets/etc.

Agreed

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Most of this I cant really argue. We have absolutely zero evidence that Daks situation would change the player he is today, its 100% hypothetical.

The year prior to Dak coming on I get they wont four games, but that team had very high expectations prior to the Romo injury. I have 0 doubt that a rookie Dak was far superior to Cassell, Moore, and whoever ended up getting starts that year. It was a disaster of a season, but take away Rodgers from GB, Lamar from Baltimore, etc and these teams miss the playoffs as well.

Overall though I think the benefit is that this team wasn't a complete train wreck. For the argument of the Wentz/Dak debate I will concede that Wentz wasn't exactly in a bad spot either. Multiple pro bowl players on the O line, a dynamic TE, and a pretty strong defense. Receivers/RB were meh, but similar to what Dak was working with aside from Zeke. If we are going strictly on Dak vs Wentz, which I think is completely silly to do at this point I'm 100% on your side. I'm just looking bigger picture league wide as basically I think the Dak/Wentz comparison is laughable at this point.

I agree with you. And I've changed my tune on Dak's supporting cast in hindsight. Initially I was like most of you guys.

But I had to sit back and think about it.....Witten retired. Dez, Terrance Williams and Brice Butler out of the league. Cole Beasley was a very good receiver but he was limited as a slot guy. Offensive line no doubt was a blessing. I mean even with giving Zeke his due...McFadden had 1k yards and didn't even start the whole season. So offensive line for sure helped Dak. Won't even lie and say it didn't. But I feel the same way about Wentz's defense for him. Helped him tremendously. Dak never in his career we afforded the luxury of being able to throw interceptions and turnovers at a alarming rate and still win.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Very true. That's why I'm not worried like some are who think Philthy will rebuild in the next draft.

Not at all. Especially if its Howie making the picks.

Its also worth noting that teams with multiple picks in the 1st round normally bust on one or both of the picks.

Now if they get 3 picks in the top 10.....gonna be much harder to bust there but they won't be the worst team in the league so if they want QB they are gonna have to trade those picks....holding out hope they trade for Watson.

 

[lukin2006]

How come it’s not listed as an int in the box score? Was it ruled a fumble and slipped out.

we dodged a bullet with Wentz. If he fell to us, we likely draft him and Dak is playing elsewhere. Sometimes it’s better to be lucky…

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

yes, garrett and linehan were obvious handicaps for us...but shhh, nobody wants to talk about that in this thread or any comparison argument of Dak.

I had asked several times, how many superbowl rings would brady have with Garrett as head coach....99% didn't answer. avoided it like the plague

Situation totally matters. Have said it often times that no one would know who Tom Brady was if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns. Garrett had sort of the right idea of talent accumulation - OLine, running game etc, but lacked the imagination to put it all together and actually direct that talent.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't understand a single word this guy said.

I really hope this was a joke

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Situation totally matters. Have said it often times that no one would know who Tom Brady was if he had been drafted by the Cleveland Browns. Garrett had sort of the right idea of talent accumulation - OLine, running game etc, but lacked the imagination to put it all together and actually direct that talent.

he would make a better GM than coach. his plays were outdated and most importantly game day management was awful.....

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

With regards to Dak and Wentz, I believe it's a study in the different progressions of the QB's. When both these QB's started their careers Wentz was rated higher and let's face it, if the Cowboys and not the Eagles had the #2 pick in that draft there wouldn't have been a single person here who would have clamed that the Cowboys should take Dak Prescott over Carson Wentz - not one. But the Eagles picked Wentz after surrendering a kings ransom to get him and in doing so they got a talented QB. Now we as Cowboy fans can hate Wentz just based on principle that he was an Eagle so by default we hate the guy, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that anyone knew that Dak Prescott would develop into what we have today. Even with that first season where we got beat by GB in the playoffs, there were still questions about Prescott. Those have been answered and he has matured into a guy who has silenced his critics. Wentz on the other hand went from the #2 pick in the draft with what seemed in his second season the first of many pro-bowls to injury prone, to terrible play and finally being jettisoned off by the Eagles to the Colts. All that said, I'm glad the Cowboys selected Dak Prescott, it worked out for the Cowboys. I'm glad the Eagles picked Wentz and had it blow up in their face.

 

[quickccc]

yes, garrett and linehan were obvious handicaps for us...but shhh, nobody wants to talk about that in this thread or any comparison argument of Dak.

I had asked several times, how many superbowl rings would brady have with Garrett as head coach....99% didn't answer. avoided it like the plague

What is the 99% Plague that made Jason Garrett 2016 NFL Head Coach of the Year ..???
Could even the GOAT Brady change the dynamics of Red Clapper ?

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