News: Dallas Cowboys: The all-time best defenders to wear the Star
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plasticman
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I was referring to time spent as a.Cowboy compared to his total NFL career.
Only a third of his career was as a Cowboy. I am always reluctant to include players that can.be considered another team's best player ever. Almost all of Henderson's short career was as a Cowboy.
Was he a greatest player for the NFL? You bet! However, we are listing.greatest Cowboys.
haleyrules
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OK Harvey Martin and Randy White Co-Winners of the SB MVP in 78! Now thats awesome.
Roadtrip635
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When Harvey Martin is left off, that list automatically becomes suspect.
BourbonBalz
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Terrible article. The best DL in Cowboy history is as follows:
DT Lilly
DT White
DE Martin
DE Haley
Ed Jones could be in Haley's place and I couldn't complain. The other three can't be disputed.
DT Lilly
DT White
DE Martin
DE Haley
Ed Jones could be in Haley's place and I couldn't complain. The other three can't be disputed.
Bullflop
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Darren Woodson is one of my all-time favorites of the modern era. For many years, he was the one who made our defense click!
DFWJC
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I think they are saying best player to wear the star and not player who contibuted the most to Dallas in his career.Deion over Everson Walls?
The man had 40+ interceptions for this team. Today we get excited when our db's get three in a season. Brandon Carr had a $250k incentive if he got 2 INTs last season. Of course he missed it.
MichaelValentino
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Plasticman:
I really enjoy your posts (you get a lot of likes from me). Some things above I agree with fully, others not.
For one, despite Randy White's greatness (see links below to a three-part article I wrote on the Manster four years ago for YDCFF), Bob Lilly is the greatest DT to ever play the game. I loved watching Randy White play, and I barely took my eyes off of him when the Cowboys D was on the field, but as great as he was, Lilly was better. Football historians argue over the greatest DT in history and four names usually dominate the conversation: Lilly, Alan Page, Merlin Olsen and Joe Greene. Many pick Lilly.
I think the Rams Fearsome Foursome followed by the Steel Curtain, Doomsday I, the Purple People Eaters, the 85 Bears and Doomsday II were the six greatest four man D-lines in NFL history. It is hard to find a better DT-DE combo than Olsen and Deacon Jones.
I agree with that you said about Thomas Henderson. He was a bullet shot out of a rifle. He ran very near a 4.4 40, which even now is ridiculous for a LB. And next to Randy White, Henderson was the most physical hitter on the Cowboys. You have to search for a play of his (on YouTube) where he takes on, of all people, John Hannah who was pulling, which Hannah did better than anyone. Thomas actually got the best of Hannah on that play - and anyone and everyone who knows football recognizes that Hannah is one of the top three or four greatest offensive linemen of all time. Also, look for a goal line play where Henderson flat out stood up Earl Campbell in the hole. The Tyler Rose was a 235 lb human wrecking ball who routinely ran over LBs as if they were skinny corners. Henderson was special, no doubt. Coach Landry and Coach Stautner never used Henderson correctly. Watch the 84-85 Bears and see the havoc they caused in the way they used OLBs Otis Wilson and Wilbur Marshall (especially Marshall). In SBs X and XIII vs. Pittsburgh, I wish Dallas had cut Henderson loose on Bradshaw's backside a la Wilbur Marshall. Could have been different outcomes in both games.
Chuck Howley's overlook for HOF enshrinement is near criminal neglect. He was a great player, and one could argue he, and not Jordan, was the greatest LB in the Cowboys first 40 years. If Ware is considered an OLB and not a RDE, then one can make the case that Ware is the greatest LB in team history.
For the old-timers here (and the curious younger crowd), you can follow the links below to articles I wrote for two of the greatest Cowboys defensive players of all time, the Manster and Too Mean Harvey Martin. I hope you'll enjoy and learn something new about these two greats.
-Michael
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/a-tribute-to-dallas-cowboys-randy-whit/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix....oys-tributes-the-manster-randy-white-part-ii/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/dallas-cowboys-manster-vs-mean-joe/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/dallas-cowboys-tribute-harvey-martin/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/dallas-cowboys-tribute-harvey-martin/2/
QT
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Dexter Coakley and Dat Nguyen combo?
Deion was the best defensive player I've watched. (I've watched Randy, Too Tall, Danny Noonan j/k, etc) They guy was a game changer and the only lock down cornerback i've seen play. He did give the Cowboys some good years before he started to slow down a bit. I don't care for him off the field, but gotta give the man props on the field.
Someone mention Everson Walls over Deion. I remember the game against the Cardinals in Jimmy Johnson's first year. We were up with like a minute to play b/c of a long Aikman pass to James Dixon (this was the play where Aikman got knock out after he threw the ball). Well, we played prevent to stop them from scoring in the final minutes. Everson let them score a TD. After that, Jimmy and Everson got into it after the game. Everson was let go soon after.
In the end, Everson did go to the Giants and won a superbowl, so win/win situation for Jimmy and Everson.
Deion was the best defensive player I've watched. (I've watched Randy, Too Tall, Danny Noonan j/k, etc) They guy was a game changer and the only lock down cornerback i've seen play. He did give the Cowboys some good years before he started to slow down a bit. I don't care for him off the field, but gotta give the man props on the field.
Someone mention Everson Walls over Deion. I remember the game against the Cardinals in Jimmy Johnson's first year. We were up with like a minute to play b/c of a long Aikman pass to James Dixon (this was the play where Aikman got knock out after he threw the ball). Well, we played prevent to stop them from scoring in the final minutes. Everson let them score a TD. After that, Jimmy and Everson got into it after the game. Everson was let go soon after.
In the end, Everson did go to the Giants and won a superbowl, so win/win situation for Jimmy and Everson.
landroverking
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Don't feel the list is very good.
First hard to compare DBs because of rule changes.
I wouldn't have Sanders that high.
Any list that doesn't have Martin on the defensive line and has White at LB is insane.
LBs have got to have Howley, Jordan and maybe Hollywood.
Recapping.
Harris
Martin
Too Tall
Jordan
Woody
Howley and maybe
Green should all be in the Hall.
First hard to compare DBs because of rule changes.
I wouldn't have Sanders that high.
Any list that doesn't have Martin on the defensive line and has White at LB is insane.
LBs have got to have Howley, Jordan and maybe Hollywood.
Recapping.
Harris
Martin
Too Tall
Jordan
Woody
Howley and maybe
Green should all be in the Hall.
bigbob
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LOL. Thing is none of our current defenders would qualify.
tyke1doe
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Walls never got us to a Super Bowl. If it weren't for Deion, we wouldn't have won our last Super Bowl. Give me Deion over Walls any day and five-times on Sunday.Deion over Everson Walls?
The man had 40+ interceptions for this team. Today we get excited when our db's get three in a season. Brandon Carr had a $250k incentive if he got 2 INTs last season. Of course he missed it.
tyke1doe
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That was an odd selection.
haleyrules
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Amen. Agreed.
plasticman
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Here is another
Thank you and, yes, I can't argue with your selection of Bob Lilly and if we were able to accurately measure their value while compensating for the era they played, I would hate to be the one to choose. Admittedly, White had a much stronger cast, which leads me to another observation about Doomsday II, independent of our discussion about Lilly vs. White. This observation, I think, gives the Cowboys a definite edge over the other great D-lines in NFL history.
We have a tendency, I think of evaluating players based on regular season stats. However, I would argue that the great players play great in the greatest games. With respect to the D-line and sacks as a measurement, this is a list of all-time sack leaders in the playoffs:
1 _ Harvey Martin _ 17.3
2 _ Willie McGinest _ 16
3 _ Bruce Smith* _ 14.5
4 _ L.C. Greenwood _ 12.5
5 _ Terrell Suggs _ 12.5
6 _ Too Tall Jones _ 12
7 _ Reggie White* _ 12
8 _ Randy White* _ 11.5
There is a six way ties for the 9th and 10th spots with 11 sacks. Haley is among that group, by the way.
Here is the complete Cowboy list:
1 _ Harvey Martin _ 17.3
2 _ Too Tall Jones _ 12
3 _ Randy White* _ 11.5
4 _ Tony Tolbert _ 10
5 _ Jethro Pugh _ 8.5
6 _ George Andrie _ 6.5
6 _ Jim Jeffcoat _ 6.5
8 _ Larry Cole _ 5.5
8 _ Bob Lilly* _ 5.5
10 _ Chad Hennings _ 4.5
11 _ Leon Lett _ 4
11 _ Russell Maryland _ 4
11 _ DeMarcus Ware _ 4
14 _ Tony Casillas _ 3.5
14 _ Dave Edwards _ 3.5
14 _ Charles Haley* _ 3.5
14 _ Thomas Henderson _ 3.5
18 _ Mike Hegman _ 3
18 _ Jimmie Jones _ 3
18 _ Anthony Spencer _ 3
18 _ Willie Townes _ 3
22 _ Bill Gregory _ 2.8
23 _ Demarcus Lawrence _ 2
23 _ Jeremy Mincey _ 2
23 _ Michael Myers _ 2
26 _ Shante Carver _ 1.5
26 _ Anthony Dickerson _ 1.5
26 _ Chuck Howley _ 1.5
26 _ D.D. Lewis _ 1.5
26 _ Charlie Waters _ 1.5
31 _ Bill Bates _ 1
31 _ Larry Bethea _ 1
31 _ Chris Canty _ 1
31 _ Barry Church _ 1
31 _ John Dutton _ 1
31 _ Ron East _ 1
31 _ Greg Ellis _ 1
31 _ Thomas Everett _ 1
31 _ Jeff Heath _ 1
31 _ Bradie James _ 1
31 _ Tank Johnson _ 1
31 _ Godfrey Myles _ 1
31 _ Jay Ratliff _ 1
31 _ Orlando Scandrick _ 1
31 _ Don Smerek _ 1
31 _ Dave Stalls _ 1
31 _ Broderick Thomas _ 1
31 _ Bruce Thornton _ 1
Obviously the DE position is going to be top heavy, however, the duo of Martin and Jones was devastating when it came to the playoffs.
Tony Cassillas had three sacks in one game, the NFC championship in 1993 against the 49ers, won 30-20.
And here is an example how one play can unfairly define a player:
Jethro Push will be remembered forever as the defensive player that got pushed out on the one yard line on the last play of the Ice Bowl game. He slipped on the ice. Nobody remembers that he had 3 sacks that game including one where Bart Starr fumbled. It was picked up by George Andrie and returned for a TD.
Plasticman:
I really enjoy your posts (you get a lot of likes from me). Some things above I agree with fully, others not.
For one, despite Randy White's greatness (see links below to a three-part article I wrote on the Manster four years ago for YDCFF), Bob Lilly is the greatest DT to ever play the game. I loved watching Randy White play, and I barely took my eyes off of him when the Cowboys D was on the field, but as great as he was, Lilly was better. Football historians argue over the greatest DT in history and four names usually dominate the conversation: Lilly, Alan Page, Merlin Olsen and Joe Greene. Many pick Lilly.
I think the Rams Fearsome Foursome followed by the Steel Curtain, Doomsday I, the Purple People Eaters, the 85 Bears and Doomsday II were the six greatest four man D-lines in NFL history. It is hard to find a better DT-DE combo than Olsen and Deacon Jones.
I agree with that you said about Thomas Henderson. He was a bullet shot out of a rifle. He ran very near a 4.4 40, which even now is ridiculous for a LB. And next to Randy White, Henderson was the most physical hitter on the Cowboys. You have to search for a play of his (on YouTube) where he takes on, of all people, John Hannah who was pulling, which Hannah did better than anyone. Thomas actually got the best of Hannah on that play - and anyone and everyone who knows football recognizes that Hannah is one of the top three or four greatest offensive linemen of all time. Also, look for a goal line play where Henderson flat out stood up Earl Campbell in the hole. The Tyler Rose was a 235 lb human wrecking ball who routinely ran over LBs as if they were skinny corners. Henderson was special, no doubt. Coach Landry and Coach Stautner never used Henderson correctly. Watch the 84-85 Bears and see the havoc they caused in the way they used OLBs Otis Wilson and Wilbur Marshall (especially Marshall). In SBs X and XIII vs. Pittsburgh, I wish Dallas had cut Henderson loose on Bradshaw's backside a la Wilbur Marshall. Could have been different outcomes in both games.
Chuck Howley's overlook for HOF enshrinement is near criminal neglect. He was a great player, and one could argue he, and not Jordan, was the greatest LB in the Cowboys first 40 years. If Ware is considered an OLB and not a RDE, then one can make the case that Ware is the greatest LB in team history.
For the old-timers here (and the curious younger crowd), you can follow the links below to articles I wrote for two of the greatest Cowboys defensive players of all time, the Manster and Too Mean Harvey Martin. I hope you'll enjoy and learn something new about these two greats.
-Michael
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/a-tribute-to-dallas-cowboys-randy-whit/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix....oys-tributes-the-manster-randy-white-part-ii/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/dallas-cowboys-manster-vs-mean-joe/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/dallas-cowboys-tribute-harvey-martin/
http://yourdailycowboysfootballfix.com/dallas-cowboys/dallas-cowboys-tribute-harvey-martin/2/
Thank you and, yes, I can't argue with your selection of Bob Lilly and if we were able to accurately measure their value while compensating for the era they played, I would hate to be the one to choose. Admittedly, White had a much stronger cast, which leads me to another observation about Doomsday II, independent of our discussion about Lilly vs. White. This observation, I think, gives the Cowboys a definite edge over the other great D-lines in NFL history.
We have a tendency, I think of evaluating players based on regular season stats. However, I would argue that the great players play great in the greatest games. With respect to the D-line and sacks as a measurement, this is a list of all-time sack leaders in the playoffs:
1 _ Harvey Martin _ 17.3
2 _ Willie McGinest _ 16
3 _ Bruce Smith* _ 14.5
4 _ L.C. Greenwood _ 12.5
5 _ Terrell Suggs _ 12.5
6 _ Too Tall Jones _ 12
7 _ Reggie White* _ 12
8 _ Randy White* _ 11.5
There is a six way ties for the 9th and 10th spots with 11 sacks. Haley is among that group, by the way.
Here is the complete Cowboy list:
1 _ Harvey Martin _ 17.3
2 _ Too Tall Jones _ 12
3 _ Randy White* _ 11.5
4 _ Tony Tolbert _ 10
5 _ Jethro Pugh _ 8.5
6 _ George Andrie _ 6.5
6 _ Jim Jeffcoat _ 6.5
8 _ Larry Cole _ 5.5
8 _ Bob Lilly* _ 5.5
10 _ Chad Hennings _ 4.5
11 _ Leon Lett _ 4
11 _ Russell Maryland _ 4
11 _ DeMarcus Ware _ 4
14 _ Tony Casillas _ 3.5
14 _ Dave Edwards _ 3.5
14 _ Charles Haley* _ 3.5
14 _ Thomas Henderson _ 3.5
18 _ Mike Hegman _ 3
18 _ Jimmie Jones _ 3
18 _ Anthony Spencer _ 3
18 _ Willie Townes _ 3
22 _ Bill Gregory _ 2.8
23 _ Demarcus Lawrence _ 2
23 _ Jeremy Mincey _ 2
23 _ Michael Myers _ 2
26 _ Shante Carver _ 1.5
26 _ Anthony Dickerson _ 1.5
26 _ Chuck Howley _ 1.5
26 _ D.D. Lewis _ 1.5
26 _ Charlie Waters _ 1.5
31 _ Bill Bates _ 1
31 _ Larry Bethea _ 1
31 _ Chris Canty _ 1
31 _ Barry Church _ 1
31 _ John Dutton _ 1
31 _ Ron East _ 1
31 _ Greg Ellis _ 1
31 _ Thomas Everett _ 1
31 _ Jeff Heath _ 1
31 _ Bradie James _ 1
31 _ Tank Johnson _ 1
31 _ Godfrey Myles _ 1
31 _ Jay Ratliff _ 1
31 _ Orlando Scandrick _ 1
31 _ Don Smerek _ 1
31 _ Dave Stalls _ 1
31 _ Broderick Thomas _ 1
31 _ Bruce Thornton _ 1
Obviously the DE position is going to be top heavy, however, the duo of Martin and Jones was devastating when it came to the playoffs.
Tony Cassillas had three sacks in one game, the NFC championship in 1993 against the 49ers, won 30-20.
And here is an example how one play can unfairly define a player:
Jethro Push will be remembered forever as the defensive player that got pushed out on the one yard line on the last play of the Ice Bowl game. He slipped on the ice. Nobody remembers that he had 3 sacks that game including one where Bart Starr fumbled. It was picked up by George Andrie and returned for a TD.
okstateCowboy
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It can be disputed because it's hard to compare eras. Athletes from the 70s are not in the same class as they are today. Demarcus Ware would be unstoppable if you could time warp his prime 2000's body back to the 70s and 80s. It's hard to say how the above mention would play against today's modern athlete.