News: Dallas Cowboys: The all-time best defenders to wear the Star

[BourbonBalz]

It can be disputed because it's hard to compare eras. Athletes from the 70s are not in the same class as they are today. Demarcus Ware would be unstoppable if you could time warp his prime 2000's body back to the 70s and 80s. It's hard to say how the above mention would play against today's modern athlete.

I call ********. You can make that argument when comparing today's players to those in the 40's or 50's, but not the ones I mentioned. Harvey Martin was every bit the pass rusher that Ware was, regardless of the times in which they played. Actually, I think he was better.

 

[MichaelValentino]

It can be disputed because it's hard to compare eras. Athletes from the 70s are not in the same class as they are today. Demarcus Ware would be unstoppable if you could time warp his prime 2000's body back to the 70s and 80s. It's hard to say how the above mention would play against today's modern athlete.

Ok, you can make a case for Demarcus Ware replacing Charles Haley on Star4Ever's all-time Cowboys front four, but the two DT spots are beyond dispute. Ware will have a bust in Canton one day but he is not on the level of Lilly and White. Lilly is regarded as not just one of the greatest DTs of all time but one of the greatest football players of all time, regardless of position, and, as I said above, many historians rank Lilly as the greatest tackle in NFL history. White was the best DT of his era, which included the latter part of Joe Green's legendary career, and is regarded as one of the most dominant interior linemen in NFL history. He constantly required double teams and yet amassed 111 career sacks from an interior line position, often flexed off the line of scrimmage, and in an era much less pass-oriented than what the NFL has become the past two decades. As to Harvey Martin, it is inexcusable for him to be snubbed from the HOF. I have no doubt that if Martin played for the Steelers he'd have been enshrined long ago. For my two cents - and I watched them both - I'll take Harvey over Ware in any big game, in any must win situation, without hesitating. As to Ware being unstoppable if he could be transported to the 70s-80s, he would not have been as dominant as Lawrence Taylor. Ware was a great player but he was not nearly the dominant player LT was. LT was unstoppable, well virtually anyway. I'd like to see some game film of Taylor going up against Anthony Munoz. There were not too many left tackles who could block Taylor. Ware was not in Taylor's league, sorry.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Ok, you can make a case for Demarcus Ware replacing Charles Haley on Star4Ever's all-time Cowboys front four, but the two DT spots are beyond dispute. Ware will have a bust in Canton one day but he is not on the level of Lilly and White. Lilly is regarded as not just one of the greatest DTs of all time but one of the greatest football players of all time, regardless of position, and, as I said above, many historians rank Lilly as the greatest tackle in NFL history. White was the best DT of his era, which included the latter part of Joe Green's legendary career, and is regarded as one of the most dominant interior linemen in NFL history. He constantly required double teams and yet amassed 111 career sacks from an interior line position, often flexed off the line of scrimmage, and in an era much less pass-oriented than what the NFL has become the past two decades. As to Harvey Martin, it is inexcusable for him to be snubbed from the HOF. I have no doubt that if Martin played for the Steelers he'd have been enshrined long ago. For my two cents - and I watched them both - I'll take Harvey over Ware in any big game, in any must win situation, without hesitating. As to Ware being unstoppable if he could be transported to the 70s-80s, he would not have been as dominant as Lawrence Taylor. Ware was a great player but he was not nearly the dominant player LT was. LT was unstoppable, well virtually anyway. I'd like to see some game film of Taylor going up against Anthony Munoz. There were not too many left tackles who could block Taylor. Ware was not in Taylor's league, sorry.

Ware was an OLB in a 3-4 defense. Martin was a true DE in a 4-3. Martin was the better player regardless. The same thing can be said for Haley during the time he was with the Cowboys.

 

[MichaelValentino]

Ware was an OLB in a 3-4 defense. Martin was a true DE in a 4-3. Martin was the better player regardless. The same thing can be said for Haley during the time he was with the Cowboys.

Yes, I get that Star. I was agreeing with your D-line above and responding not to you but to okstate who argues - if I correctly understood his comment - that Ware has a place in your "undisputed" front four. I assumed from his comment in response to yours that he was inferring Ware would line up at RDE - either over Haley or Martin. I brought up Taylor because his position was OLB but NYG often had him standing up outside the RDE Leonard Marshall in a strictly pass rush mode so he did not play a traditional Will LB role. Of all pass rushing LBs in NFL history, Taylor is obviously the gold standard.

In my first comment on this thread I mentioned that it can be argued Ware was the greatest Dallas LB - over Howley and Jordan and over Henderson, who was arguably the most physically gifted LB in team history. I think I've delineated the OLB v. DE position in my prior comments.

 

[plasticman]

It can be disputed because it's hard to compare eras. Athletes from the 70s are not in the same class as they are today. Demarcus Ware would be unstoppable if you could time warp his prime 2000's body back to the 70s and 80s. It's hard to say how the above mention would play against today's modern athlete.

DeMarcus Ware may have found it difficult in an era that ran the ball over 60% of the time. He would have struggled in a basic defense where he would have been a pure DE. He was never an instinctive linebacker.

I would be very careful about comparing athletes from one era to another because their abilities depended on the technology of that time. High schhols and colleges in the 70's did not have the sophistication and technological assistance available today. They did not have the nutritional expertise that now exists. Therefore, for all we know, DeMarcus Ware would have remained an oversized receiver.

Football players of today are not "better" than the athletes of the 70's, they simply have more resources available to maximize their potential. It would be like saying guitarists today are better than Jimi Hendrix who did not have the computerized equipment capable of enhancing the sound and compensating for any imperfections.

 

[BAT]

Dexter Coakley and Dat Nguyen combo?

Deion was the best defensive player I've watched. (I've watched Randy, Too Tall, Danny Noonan j/k, etc) They guy was a game changer and the only lock down cornerback i've seen play. He did give the Cowboys some good years before he started to slow down a bit. I don't care for him off the field, but gotta give the man props on the field.

Someone mention Everson Walls over Deion. I remember the game against the Cardinals in Jimmy Johnson's first year. We were up with like a minute to play b/c of a long Aikman pass to James Dixon (this was the play where Aikman got knock out after he threw the ball). Well, we played prevent to stop them from scoring in the final minutes. Everson let them score a TD. After that, Jimmy and Everson got into it after the game. Everson was let go soon after.

In the end, Everson did go to the Giants and won a superbowl, so win/win situation for Jimmy and Everson.

As fast as Hollywood was, Coakley was faster. He ran a 4.3 and covered WRs like a corner. He may have been short and stout but he was a physical freak.

He gets maligned a lot but he and Glover were the best players on Campo's teams, not even close. And Deion gets nod over Walls for me because he helped bring a Lombardi to Big D, never mind that he was most dominant corner that ever played. Feel same way about Adderley, even tho his loyalty is to the Pack.

 

[StarBoyz83]

LOL. Thing is none of our current defenders would qualify.

Maybe lee but that's for sure it

 

[erod]

Dexter Clinkscale.

 

[jobberone]

Lot of great players. Won't say they are the greatest but Larry Cole and George Andrie deserve love.

Lilly greatest
White probably best other DT
Martin best DE
I'll catch some grief but Too Tall was a better pure DE in the 4-3 than Ware. Ware didn't play the run well enough.

Maryland was never the player he could have been due to injuries BTW. Still very good rotation.

 

[Sarge]

Dieon didn't play long enough to be considered a best ever Cowboy. Besides, the dude was allergic to tackling.

Bob Lilly didn't just set the tone for the D-line, he set the tone for the entire franchise. Their first ever draft pick anchored the Doomsday Defense and entered the Hall of Fame. Opponent offenses stopped running the ball on his side despite triple teams.

Cornell Green- never played a down of college football, was a basketball player. Made 1st team All Pro and Pro Bowls as a CB then switched to SS and continued to make Pro bowls.

OLB Chuck Howley, SB MVP but easily could have also been SB 6 MVP.

DE Harvey " Too Mean" Martin, was a very pleasant surprise as a 3rd round pick. If sacks were recorded statistically back then Harvey would be ranked 1st or 2nd in NFL history.

Randy White was the best Cowboy defender in history. He playes DT in college but the Cowboys thought he was too small to play the position in the NFL. They wantes to utilize his speed as a MLB.

They were wrong. Once he went back to the D-line he was an instant star, typicaly drawing double and triple teams. If he didnt beat you up bad enough during the game then he would wait for you in the parking lot after the game and finish the job.

The greatest D-line in history was Doomsday Ii composed of three top 5 overall picks, White, Dutton, and Jones plus Harvey.

How good?

In Super Bowl 12, the Bronco's starting quarterback recorded a 0 passer rating. Martin and White were Co-MVP's, they couldn't make up their mind.

MLB Leroy Jordan, best MLB in Cowboy history, once had three INT's in the first half of a game. However, his specialty was stopping the run.

For the decade of 1967 to 1977 the Dallas Ciwbiys were ranked #1 overall in stopping the run.

Despite his problems Hollywood Henderson was probably the best ever Cowboy LB. He was Lawrence Taylor before there ever was a Lawrence Tayor. He used to return kickoffs ran one back for a TD.

Best defensive rookie performance belongs to Everson Walls, 11 regular season INT's for the undrafted free agent back when the draft went 12 rounds. Novody remebers that he had 2 INT's and a fumble recovery in the NFC championship game that year against the 49ers.

Special mention to the greatest defensive mind in NFL history Tom Landry, a former 1st team All Pro CB. He modernized NFL defenses when he invented the 4-3.

Excellent post....

 

[joseephuss]

Hollywood Henderson is one of the most overrated Cowboys in their history. He had flashes of brilliance and could have been one of the best; however, his personal problems prevented him from ever reaching his potential. He is remembered fondly for a few highlights and his vast potential, but the reality of his career is that he never lived up to what he could have been. It is a shame. I was and still am a fan of him. He just couldn't piece everything together that a NFL players needs to do to achieve true greatness.