Dallas defense of '06 vs '05. A quick analysis...

[MichaelWinicki]

Newman, Ware, Henry too low. Newman was playing well by the end of 2004- so you should have carried that rating into 2005. 3- 3.5 Henry up to his injury was on the way to the pro bowl. So he should be starting at around 3.5. By the way- rating a CB mostly on INT's is dumb. The BEST CB's do not get INT's because NO ONE THROWS AT THEM. Ware ended the season at around 3-3.5; he needs more consistency.

You make valid points.

Yes, I do think Newman was better at the end of '04. I was just a little unsure of what we were going to get the beginning of '05.

My trouble with Henry is that he did end '05 on a sour note and would have to see him play to see where he's at now.

Yes, Ware could be a 3.0 at this point. I would have a tough time making him more than that unless he was like you say, more consistent.

 

[BLEU3ASY]

Why was Newman not a Pro Bowler last year? Even as a Skins fan I think he was sold short by not being voted in as even an alternate.

i'm a newman fan....he goes below the radar he's not a flashy guy..teams really don't throw at him alot in a game....thats whats keeps his ints low along with some drops....remember he shut down s.smith had him so frustrated he got tossed and smith was on fire at the time....his trips to hawii are coming

 

[Gent]

Nice read, Winicki.

A little complaint:

Ellis ’05 rating- 3.5
Canty ’06 rating- 2.5

Your caveat of comparing only "starters" works for most positions, but it doesn't make as much sense when there's a rotation. Ellis will still play and Canty is a year better. We will be the same or better at DE, not worse.

-Gent

 

[AdamJT13]

You make valid points. Perhaps I did rate Ware too low. I think if I were to do it over again I would probably give him a "3" at this point.

As far as Carpenter goes... I wouldn't be surprised that just his performance through training camp and the exhibition season puts him up at a 2.5 level.

I just have a tough time automatically giving any rookie a "good player" ranking without actually seeing him on the field some. Potential wise I think he's capable of being a "4" but he's not there yet.

I don't think you'd necessarily need to raise the rankings for Ware and Carpenter. You could just lower the rankings for the other guys I listed, considerng that you have all of them listed as above average.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

when I read you gave glover a 3.5...then I stopped reading because it showed you don't follow football much and probably buy into hypes and arrticles written by espn and SI writers.

glover was a big liability on defense last year, being caught out of position many times. we played a lot of hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 formations last year specially early on in the year, most times starting in a 3-4 and shifting to a 4-3. as the defense got more comfortable with 3-4 glover's role diminished because he was a big liability against runs up the middle and he was often pushed around as the NT. GLover is a total mis-cast on 3-4. so if you give him a grade of 3.5 it would be for a 4-3 defense. on a 3-4 defense he gets a 1.5

you gave ware a 2.0 where he is actually a 3 to 3.5. by the end of the year teams were avoiding his side and accounting for his presence. as a LB he had a lot of pass defense duties and not just rushing the passer. so you are grading him as a pass rusher, yet that wasn't his sole duty. he didn't have a complement on the other side to be able to rush the passer on a regular basis. he played in the scheme they asked him to play....


you gave james a 1.5!!! give me a break. he was the sole reason the defense played as well as it did and held things together.....if you went back and analyzed...appropriately......we had a top 5 defense in almost every category through mid-season...when we lost singleton...yes singleton and put fujita int here, our defense had two liabilities on the same side they had to account for (shanle replacing dat).


canty's play far outweight Ellis byt he end of the year in the 3-4. you are grading Ellis based on sack total and ignore everything else for the defense.

not a good analysis at all. sorry, but you need more detailed look into things before you go out and make comments like you did.

you far underestimate the value of ferguson in the 3-4. you far underestimate the role of the MLB in the defense. you way over value stats by ignoring the whole.

 

[AdamJT13]

when I read you gave glover a 3.5...then I stopped reading because it showed you don't follow football much and probably buy into hypes and arrticles written by espn and SI writers.

glover was a big liability on defense last year, being caught out of position many times. we played a lot of hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 formations last year specially early on in the year, most times starting in a 3-4 and shifting to a 4-3. as the defense got more comfortable with 3-4 glover's role diminished because he was a big liability against runs up the middle and he was often pushed around as the NT. GLover is a total mis-cast on 3-4. so if you give him a grade of 3.5 it would be for a 4-3 defense. on a 3-4 defense he gets a 1.5

you gave james a 1.5!!! give me a break. he was the sole reason the defense played as well as it did and held things together.....if you went back and analyzed...appropriately......we had a top 5 defense in almost every category through mid-season...when we lost singleton...yes singleton and put fujita int here, our defense had two liabilities on the same side they had to account for (shanle replacing dat).

canty's play far outweight Ellis byt he end of the year in the 3-4. you are grading Ellis based on sack total and ignore everything else for the defense.

not a good analysis at all. sorry, but you need more detailed look into things before you go out and make comments like you did.

you far underestimate the value of ferguson in the 3-4. you far underestimate the role of the MLB in the defense. you way over value stats by ignoring the whole.

As he explained, his rankings for last year were what the players were going into the first game of the season, not at the end of the season.

 

[superpunk]

I have a REALLY difficult time believing that DeMarcus Ware should be put at the same level as Bradie James, Akin Ayodele, Jason Ferguson and Chris Canty going into this season. Ware had almost as many sacks and tackles for loss last season as the other four players combined. (Ware's combined total was high enough to put him among the NFL leaders.) Whatever grade you give James, Ayodele, Ferguson or Canty, I'd put Ware at least a full notch above any of them.

I looked yesterday, and Ware was basically the league leader among LBs for negative plays. 8 sacks and 10 stops for loss. Only Merriman (10 sacks, 5 stfl) and Washington (7.5 sacks, 6 stfl) were within 5 of him.

Within 5.

Then came Porter with 13, and Thomas, as well, I think.

 

[AdamJT13]

I looked yesterday, and Ware was basically the league leader among LBs for negative plays. 8 sacks and 10 stops for loss. Only Merriman (10 sacks, 5 stfl) and Washington (7.5 sacks, 6 stfl) were within 5 of him.

Yep. The only guys with more stops behind the line of scrimmage were defensive ends -- Kyle Vanden Bosch (20), Michael Strahan (19), Derrick Burgess (18.5) and Jason Taylor (18.5). And all of them made the Pro Bowl.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

when I read you gave glover a 3.5...then I stopped reading because it showed you don't follow football much and probably buy into hypes and arrticles written by espn and SI writers.

glover was a big liability on defense last year, being caught out of position many times. we played a lot of hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 formations last year specially early on in the year, most times starting in a 3-4 and shifting to a 4-3. as the defense got more comfortable with 3-4 glover's role diminished because he was a big liability against runs up the middle and he was often pushed around as the NT. GLover is a total mis-cast on 3-4. so if you give him a grade of 3.5 it would be for a 4-3 defense. on a 3-4 defense he gets a 1.5

you gave ware a 2.0 where he is actually a 3 to 3.5. by the end of the year teams were avoiding his side and accounting for his presence. as a LB he had a lot of pass defense duties and not just rushing the passer. so you are grading him as a pass rusher, yet that wasn't his sole duty. he didn't have a complement on the other side to be able to rush the passer on a regular basis. he played in the scheme they asked him to play....


you gave james a 1.5!!! give me a break. he was the sole reason the defense played as well as it did and held things together.....if you went back and analyzed...appropriately......we had a top 5 defense in almost every category through mid-season...when we lost singleton...yes singleton and put fujita int here, our defense had two liabilities on the same side they had to account for (shanle replacing dat).


canty's play far outweight Ellis byt he end of the year in the 3-4. you are grading Ellis based on sack total and ignore everything else for the defense.

not a good analysis at all. sorry, but you need more detailed look into things before you go out and make comments like you did.

you far underestimate the value of ferguson in the 3-4. you far underestimate the role of the MLB in the defense. you way over value stats by ignoring the whole.

You obviously didn't READ what I posted...

 

[Hostile]

MW, nice thread idea. I'm gonna disagree though on a couple of players. Ware in particular needs to be rated higher. Look at early 2005 vs. late 2005 for reference. He figured a lot of things out and began really pressuring the QBs. Expect 2006 to be a bigger jump up.

If there was a better CB than Newman in 2005, I didn't see him. He's a 5 as best in the game.

I expect this defense to be top 5 if Carpenter mans SOLB well and we have any semblance of a FS. I think Watkins or Beriault will provide that.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

MW, nice thread idea. I'm gonna disagree though on a couple of players. Ware in particular needs to be rated higher. Look at early 2005 vs. late 2005 for reference. He figured a lot of things out and began really pressuring the QBs. Expect 2006 to be a bigger jump up.

If there was a better CB than Newman in 2005, I didn't see him. He's a 5 as best in the game.

I expect this defense to be top 5 if Carpenter mans SOLB well and we have any semblance of a FS. I think Watkins or Beriault will provide that.

Oh I have no problems with the disagreements...

This thing was done to spur debate.

 

[Chief]

when I read you gave glover a 3.5...then I stopped reading because it showed you don't follow football much and probably buy into hypes and arrticles written by espn and SI writers.

glover was a big liability on defense last year, being caught out of position many times. we played a lot of hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 formations last year specially early on in the year, most times starting in a 3-4 and shifting to a 4-3. as the defense got more comfortable with 3-4 glover's role diminished because he was a big liability against runs up the middle and he was often pushed around as the NT. GLover is a total mis-cast on 3-4. so if you give him a grade of 3.5 it would be for a 4-3 defense. on a 3-4 defense he gets a 1.5

you gave ware a 2.0 where he is actually a 3 to 3.5. by the end of the year teams were avoiding his side and accounting for his presence. as a LB he had a lot of pass defense duties and not just rushing the passer. so you are grading him as a pass rusher, yet that wasn't his sole duty. he didn't have a complement on the other side to be able to rush the passer on a regular basis. he played in the scheme they asked him to play....


you gave james a 1.5!!! give me a break. he was the sole reason the defense played as well as it did and held things together.....if you went back and analyzed...appropriately......we had a top 5 defense in almost every category through mid-season...when we lost singleton...yes singleton and put fujita int here, our defense had two liabilities on the same side they had to account for (shanle replacing dat).


canty's play far outweight Ellis byt he end of the year in the 3-4. you are grading Ellis based on sack total and ignore everything else for the defense.

not a good analysis at all. sorry, but you need more detailed look into things before you go out and make comments like you did.

you far underestimate the value of ferguson in the 3-4. you far underestimate the role of the MLB in the defense. you way over value stats by ignoring the whole.

This is a terrible post. I just thought you should know that.

 

[Hostile]

Oh I have no problems with the disagreements...

This thing was done to spur debate.

Then you weren't abrasive enough.

 

[Juke99]

Then you weren't abrasive enough.

Spoken by Mr Mondo Abrasive.

 

[BlueStar II]

I think that in order for Newman to get to the Pro Bowl, he's going to have to come up with some more picks. Williams gets more recognition because of his occasional big plays, and that is what I feel Newman will need to do in order to get to the Pro Bowl.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Great job, but I don't neccesarily agree with your projections of who will be "starters".

I think Ellis remains the "starter" although that really doesn't matter due to rotations.

I believe that it's 50/50 right now whether Carpenter or Singleton will start the first game. Carpenter will start the last game but early in the year may see a proven veteran.

I also wouldn't take Henry starting to the bank. It really surprises me that the media didn't ask Parcells about him more late in the year. He was healthy enough to play special teams but wasn't seeing the field at CB. I don't know if he was in the doghouse or what because Parcells was never asked about it. Even if he is the starter, your rating of him is a tad high. He was unimpressive (unless you have a room temperature IQ and one or two big plays impresses you) before he was injured.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Great idea...and although I disagree on a couple of individuals, overall your ratings are good.

I would put Ware at the "good" level of 3 already. He certainly played better than average. I think you are grading him low solely because of his age.

I think you over-evaluated Glover last year even from a pre-season standpoint. We all knew he wasn't a 3-4 NT, and it didn't take long to see that. And he got worse as the year went on. He was terribly ineffective. He can rebound in the Rams 4-3, but he was average at best last year. I would rate Ferguson as his equal or better this year.

I think Roy is closer to a 5 than a 4. At his position, strong safety, he has few peers. He definitely is Pro Bowl level. I'd put him at a 4.5, maybe for both years.

I don't see Singleton as being above average in any way. Carpenter should be at his level or higher as rookie, just being a number one pick.

Throw in the depth factor and I think we clearly are much better heading into this year. If Coleman starts at free safety, he is at least 1.5-2 with his experience.

 

[Paniolo22]

I also wouldn't take Henry starting to the bank. It really surprises me that the media didn't ask Parcells about him more late in the year. He was healthy enough to play special teams but wasn't seeing the field at CB. I don't know if he was in the doghouse or what because Parcells was never asked about it. Even if he is the starter, your rating of him is a tad high. He was unimpressive (unless you have a room temperature IQ and one or two big plays impresses you) before he was injured.

Henry was leading the team in interceptions, passes defensed, and big plays before he was hurt. I dare to say my IQ MUST be at room temperature. Especially concerning our cornerback play before Henry got there. Sheesh! Some people.
BTW, If Henry doesn't start, I'll call you King Stanley from now on.

 

[stilltheguru]

henry straight shut plax down first time we played the giants.it was beautiful.


i remember the fumble he forced on plax.man he just dominated him.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

newman got a 2 because thats what you get after being injured . . . thats why he is now a 4.5 because he is a shut-down corner . . .

as for FS 1 is a bit low with all the comp, you have keith davis at one and since he wont make the starting spot i say 2 maybe 2.5, cant really say any1 is good at FS, and then if you do it would have to involve the word "potential"

DE - Canty and Spears both 2.5s i like that because they have again "potential" to be 3s but you cant see that until the season starts.

Akin = Dat, IMHO. Akin was a great LB at jacksonville and comes into dallas to join a even better supporting cast, he will rack up almost as many tackles, but be better in other aspects, i.e. coverage and inside blitz, btw he can play the OLB position as well, which is another +, i say 3 for this guy.

Ware, its hard to like the 2.5 because he had a solid rookie season, but hes young so he again is one of the "potential" guys and maybe will become a 3.5 because he is already accounted for.

singleton - Carpenter . . . what if carpenter is a bust. i say hes a unrated, but since singleton would prolly be a 2 and carpenter would start id give him atleast a 2.5 . . .

now lets rate our offense !